Lots of bass at walls, lack of bass in center of room/listening position

OP,

OK, I see the confusion. When I do an image search I get a lot of the Be series of Yamaha’s show up as NS 5000 speakers.

If this is the new, Zylon speaker, then the FR does not make sense to me at all.


Best,
E

He has NS5000... not NS1000... how did you make that mistake?

Enthusiastically!

Refunds are in the mail.

Still, the basic FR issues appear shared. 

AHA !!!

If these are the original NS 5000 I strongly suggest you get Troel's crossover upgrades:

Everything I was complaining about in your measurements (except for the choppy HF) is fixed here.


http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Yamaha-NS1000.htm


Otherwise, DSP is a necessary option.  If you don't want to do the EQ yourself, Anthem makes a pre and integrated that will do it for you and integrate your sub.



Best,

E

Hi OP,

Here's my blog on how well a 2-way can function in a small room, with room treatment.

https://speakermakersjourney.blogspot.com/2020/01/the-snr-1-room-response-and-roon.html

Best,

E

Hi OP:

Use the tools you have. Move the speakers back to see if you can find a better bass balance. Next, see the tooth like ridges in the high frequency? That’s evidence of regular reflections, possibly even slap echoes.

Yes, diffusion is a great idea, but at $400, I suggest you call GIK Acoustics and see what they could do in your budget. I mean, I am sure these are find diffusors, but for maybe a little more you might be able to get a lot more room treatment from GIK. They have an online service where you can send them pictures and room measurements. I strongly suggest you take advantage of it.

So, this is the order I recommend you work:

1. Main speaker placement
2. Room treatment
3. EQ
4. Subwoofer

For 3, the Schiit Loki ($149) may be just perfect. Only after you have sorted this out should you spend too much time attempting to integrate your sub.  I can't tell you how much more important 2 is going to be though. 

Again, what speakers are you using though?  This may provide clues.

Best,

E

OP:
We haven’t discussed your main speakers. What are they and where are they? It is possible they need more rear wall reinforcement. You also, 100% need mid-high frequency damping and dispersion.

If the former is true, moving the speakers towards the rear wall should help reduce the bass-mid imbalance. That is, you should get more bass out of these speakers.

Some one else mentioned Roon. Yes, if you have access to DSP and the other suggestions are not available to try first, this can help, but convolution filters are WAY overboard here. Simple parametric filters will fix everything you have, and not overtax your server.

However, room acoustics are the first place to go. You can’t fix your mid-HF hash with an EQ.

Also, the sub response honestly looks really good.  I was expecting to see a lot more garbage.  This is why I am suggesting that for now, you ignore it, and fix the mains.  That's where your problems are, and there's nothing you can do in the sub to fix this. 

BTW, the one thing I don't see evidence for is the need of bass traps.

I know the world will be shocked, but this is not the case here.  What you need is the slope from 1kHz to 10kHz to go further down.  The problem is not, as often the case, that you have too many room modes.  The problem is the relative output from 100 Hz to 1 kHz is far too low relative to the rest, and that is making your system feel like there's way too little bass.

Fix that and you may not even want a sub. :)  As I wrote in my blog:

But wait, you are trying to fix a bass problem right? Well, what if the problem is not too little bass, but too much midrange or treble? A live room will sound much brighter. Reduce that and, like magic, the bass appears like a Spanish galleon emerging from the ocean at low tide.

Here is another comparison, this time with left sub, 2 subs and no subs and a bit more smoothing (1/12) to make this more clear.

Great pic.  Um, you definitely have complications.  There's an increasing trend from 60 Hz to 1 kHz.  This should be flat or descending.  Also, notice the regular ripple starting at around 6 kHz.  That indicates regular reflections in the mid-treble.

Essentially you have way too much mid bass to mid energy. If this is a highly reflective room that would explain it. Before adding the sub, fix up your mains and room.

Humor me.  Turn the sub off and send me a pic of your mains full-range.

OP:
In general, your measurements show the two are not integrated. You want the bottom and upper part of this graph to merge completely seamlessly.

I only have a delay knob on my subs (PSA V1800). Is that what I should play with? I don't have polarity or phase controls.

My suggestion:

1. Minimize the phase setting.
2. Flip the wiring to the main speakers to compare.
3. Pick whichever wiring gives better response.
4. Adjust the phase dial from that point to eliminate null.
   
5. Adjust sub level to elimiate step between sub and mains.
   

See the null ~ 120 Hz ?  Makes me wonder if your speaker/sub polarity is not backwards.  Flip and re-run. 

Bass traps and possibly 2 subs may be necessary.  Start with the traps.