Lost that "Tube Magic". Can you help?


Greetings and thanks in advance for your sharings.

My first tube amp(only a few years ago) was an H.H. Scott LK-72B with all original 7591 tubes. The thing was just plain MAGICAL to my ears. It would impart the same character to just about any speakers I paired it with... Theils... older B&W's... Paradigms...

Pardon me if my words fall short as I've only been at this hobby for several years: The top end was not as extended as some and bottom end was a bit flabby but the thing sounded good on all types of music and soared on vocals and solitary instruments. Tones had a density... a harmonic richness... an aliveness... that made me sit up and listen. There was often an "air" around vocalists and instruments that wasn't so much about 3-dimensional soundstage placement as it was about something "other dimensional(for lack of better words)" Sometimes the sharpness, the "splat" of a horn note from a Cassandra Wilson album would compel me to drop a project in another room and come running into the listening room with my mouth hanging open. Vocalists could sometimes be hauntingly present and perhaps larger than life (if somehow inaccurately so). I haven't experienced that since- Not in showrooms nor in my own system.

The Scott developed some coughs and sputters within a few months and I had most of the caps replaced. Magic gone. Still a very nice sounding unit.. bass was more extended and tauter... over all sounded "cleaner" but a lot more... well... solid state.

I'm thinking "I now know what this 'tube magic' people have been talking about is". I decided I would pull out all the stops(for my budget) and buy a modern, reliable, positively reviewed piece of tube equipment that could be a lasting centerpiece to all of my other equipment changes(lasting?? Laughing at myself here). I bought a Cayin A-100T with newish Electro-Harmonix KT-88s and an assortment of NOS preamp tubes. This was not it. Perfectly black background, gobs of power, entended highs and lows(more low end control than most of the quality solid-state equipment I've owned(McCormack, Proceed, Counterpoint)), but missing that magic. To my ear it sounded rather solid-state-ish but without the drive in particular. I tried it with a number of speakers and this overall character remained.

Lastly I tried an Onix Melody SP-3. Overall I found it more musically satisfying that the Cayin in that it had better pacing(drive) and just sounded more musical to my ear. Instruments on the Cayin sounded more accurate but the whole picture cohesion was more there(for me) with the Onix. This is a great amp(especially for the money) as many reviews atest to, but it was still missing that magic for me. Again, a bit too solid-state-ish if you will. I played with replacing some of the preamp tubes with some good quality NOS tubes to some good effect but had the sense that tube changes were not going to change the character enough. I tried this amp with a number of speakers too.

"Why don't you just play with capacitor and tube changes in another H.H. Scott if you like the sound so much?" That's a good question and I may end up going that route in the end but I would really like to have something that is:
1. More modern and reliable. I like a more modern look too.
2. Has a remote control(I can hear the snickering already ;) .
3. Perhaps has even more of that magic than the Scott. Despite the magic, the Scott lacked a transparency that my other tube amps have had. Better extension and control would be welcome too if it's possible to have my cake and eat it too.

Also:
I would -really- like to spend less than $1K if possible. I would prefer an integrated solution.
Tone controls would be nice(not absolutely necessary).
I have not settled on speakers at this point either.

I've heard a few tube pieces that didn't have that solid-state character but they were rather "soft and mushy" and lacked the aliveness I'm wanting. It certainly could have been the setups.

Anyone have experience with what I'm talking about?
Do you have better ways to describe it?
Is this a characteristic of older tube equipment in general? H.H. Scotts in general? 7591 tubes? All OS tube setups? Can you recommend a modern, remote controlled, sub $1K solid state integrated that might fit the bill? Any solid state equipment out there that would really have the qualities I'm looking for?

Again, thanks much.
128x128eyediver
Eyediver,

You have received a lot of good information and advice here. I will agree with the folks who have pointed you to some of the older CJ gear - I have a Premier 11a and think that it sounds great in my small listening room. But it doesn't sound like the old/original Scott amps I have heard in the past.

A couple of guys have mentioned Manley. Great gear - well built, reliable and sounds great. But IMHO that is about as far away as you can get from your Scott in terms of lush tube bloom.

You have set a challenging list of requirements: "magical", reliable, remote, integrated - all for under a thousand bucks. If you are planning to replace your speakers maybe the posters that suggest a SET amp are advising you in the right direction.
Eyediver, when you do a serious bit of service to an older amplifier, it takes time for those new parts to break in, and for the disturbances that result from the replacement to settle out. It may be way too late for this but I would advise running the amplifier for about 5-6 weeks and see what you think of it then.

One caveat- it is common for a service technician to replace the coupling capacitors in the output section of any older amplifier, as you often see electrical leakage in older capacitors that can be serious concerns for the correct operating point of the output tubes! **IF** these caps were replaced, you might be hearing the amp complaining about them. Most older paper coupling caps while not very good performers were in fact very nice sounding and are actually sought after for some of their qualities.

So I would examine that issue with your technician- if he put cheap coupling caps in they can be removed and replaced with something decent quite easily.
Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond.
Like from my last posts, I have a whole notepad page full of notations and things to further research. You guys are great!

Sounds like I need to check out Conrad Johnson equipment and step into the Single Ended hallway too.

There are a lot of CJ stuff mentioned both old and new. Listed right now are a few mv50 and mv75s. I read some reviews and I think they might fit the bill. I'm leaning toward the mv-50 or waiting for an mv-55 to come around because there are a lot of recommendations for el-34 tubes having what I'm looking for. Any further thoughts/experiences/CJ equipment contrasts would be appreciated.

The JAS and the sound quest sq-84 v2 catch my attention too. An origianl sq-84 just came up for sale I see.

I will be looking into Dynacos and have contacted Will Vincent.
Dave, would love to figure out a time for a listen.

I will continue to check back on this thread (for many month) if there are anymore thoughts that come to mind.
there is an audio note soro for auction, not sub 1K but a nice tubed integrated. i had one, and if you change out the stock tubes it has a really nice sound -- clean but the midrange is very compelling for the $$