Like Cain Ben's set up hollow sounding

I met Mr. Cain and listened to his single horn Bens at T.H.E. show in 'Vegas a few years ago. They were driven by 47 Labs integrated and CD player.

The Bens indeed had a "hollow", woody sound which I found charming (listend to CSNY and other 60's rock).

This was in stark contrast to Wilson/Benesch room which had a super pristine, uber precise sound.

As stated in my AGon review of the show: The Cain won my heart and the WB won my head (and the Harbeth 7-II was the winning compromise).

I guess you either love the woodness of the Cain or you don't.

Wires are NOT going to do crap. Sorry for the language. I'm aggrevated right now. That's the silliest thing I have read thus far today. Those speakers are designed to sound like that. You cannot in any way change this. No amp, stand, tweak, particle physics phenomenon will change this. Your best bet is placement (which you have done), and deadening (which you have done). Maybe more experimentation is needed in those areas. If you cannot live with the signature of the speakers...either sell them OR enjoy them for what they can do but accept that they have limitations with certain music etc.

Reading this may help you...I hope anyway. Good luck.

http://www.stereomojo.com/Cain%20and%20Cain%20Ben%20Review/CainandCainSingleHornBenReview.htm

Why you use drivers designed for horns in horns a f120a is for AS or sealed cabs not BLH. Thus the poor soud quality in bass. I would suggest adding acusta stuff to BLH mouth and behind driver. Or change driver to 1 designed for BLH use. f120a is a great driver just used wrong like anything else will not perform proper. I seen your BLH for sale on audiogon knew right away this was wrong combo. BLH can add color to sound why I greatly over built our BLH offerings and have now do not offer a BLH. But the main issue with yours is wrong driver used in BLH. Not all wide bands or fullranges are for BLH cabinets.

Since I'm new to HE speakers, perhaps I should not comment. But a couple of points strike me. It may help to know I recently purchased a pair of Cain & Cain BEN singles.

First, the C&C may have been the inspiration for Johnbonn's speakers but Terry Cain was a woodworker/builder, not a designer. To copy from that design I would think one would look back to Fostex for the original plans and specs.

Second, Cain & Cain used the FE 208E Sigma driver in the BEN cabinet, not the F120A. If the "Vas" spec indicates cabinet volume, the 208E is 60.1 liters while the 120A is 9.9, a difference of over 6X. Could that alone account for the "in the cave" sound? This may be restating Johnk's comments in a slightly different way.

My BENS are in a 20 x 17 x 11 room and sound quite natural and "uncave" like.

Thank you for your thoughts just an update Johnk was right on I pulled the drivers and mouth of the BLH had nothing in it so as he suggested I lined the inside with stuffing and now I believe the speakers sound as Dweller and Vandermuelen describe the signature of the speakers they sound beautiful very natural and open very musical and yes a slight woodsy sound cellos sound authoritative nice body pianos sound open and large...... amazing difference thank you Johnk for the great suggestion you nailed it.

Your welcome. Its what I do. I have a hard time not thinking about loudspeakers and design. Spend my days and nights working on loudspeakers. Wake in the middle of the night to try things out. Crazy but my wife allows such. Dont know why but transducers and loudspeakers have facinated me since I was a small child.

Well thank you again John your knowledge turned a challenging situation into a great enjoying the music situation. The frustating thing was they sounded so good at the sellers house I mean really good then set them up in my place and what a difference. I was concerned because the rooms were so different and heard all kinds of 80% of the sound is the room that I was in trouble. Ron the seller was great the whole way offering all kinds of suggestions and amps to eliminate as much as I could before saying the room was not going to work. So I read a lot of posts which steered me all over but not there. Then I put up the post kind of thought I didn't give enough info but as I said you nailed it. The speakers are like Bens but much smaller so the f120a is working great unlike the real Cain Abby's I had and enjoyed but my room being so large when the volume was turned up the speakers started shouting, these have no shouting no nasal on male vocals and the piano and cellos wow, that is after your advise. One more question if you don't mind stufffing or sound deadening any recommendations heard long hair wool is the hot tip? I am using like pillow fill it seems to be doing the job I can't ask for much more the only two things that come to mind is a larger sound stage and seperation of individual instruments say in the string section. That is it everthing else is more then I have ever had. Well again thank you your knowledge advise and time to pass some on to me it is very much appreciated. Keep doing what you do!

Use real wool or acousta stuff you can get this from madisound Josh is the better guy to buy from ask for him if you can. Pillow fill does not absorb as well or as even. Also try deflex behind driver you might beable to cut 1 in 1/2 to save some funds, also keep fill loose. Dont pack it in or sound quality will be - effected. Fostex also makes hyperbolic reflectors you can bolt into horn throat these can reduce some of the colorations and drone from bass. But are costly.

Thank you John I will get in touch with Josh and change out the pillow stuffing can't thank you enough for your suggestions listening to Sarah Brightman and she is in the room! Thank you John