Lightspeed Attenuator - Best Preamp Ever?

Maybe it was previously mentioned, but can you make these with two volume knobs for left and right channels to adjust balance?

I could but instead of $450 it would end up costing $1450 and would then be no longer a "Stereophile $$$ value"
Quality remote, reciever, motorized pot, different power supplies and larger chassis.

Cheers George

For those who follow Stereophile, the Lightspeed Attenuator has made it into "Class B" Recommended Pre-Amps with a $$$ value tag in the October issue.
I received an anonymous email saying if your wondering why it didn't get into "Class A" just have a look, nothing below 10K, it will never happen.

Cheers George

Can they put a remote control on the LSA? I'm lazy.

Has anyone compared the $14,000 Music First TVC with the $450 LSA? I have to imagine that price difference has nothing whatesover to do with sound quality.

Wonder what Arthur Salvatore would think of it and if it might make his Class A recommended list. He's known to favor a passive approach with the right system and doesn't give a hoot about what something costs when he associates it with a specific class.

I have used the LSA with the VAC Auricle Musicblocs, Music Reference RM-10 MkII, and Atma-Sphere S-30. The Atma-Sphere/Audiokinesis combo was the last configuration it was used with. In all three it worked fine. In some weird sort of way I might like it with the S-30 best. It allows me the most use of the volume control. Something Ralph Karsten recommends with most passive designs.

All in all, given the proper matching criteria I think the LSA would feel at home with just about any amp/speaker combo. I don't often pay much mind to what Stereophile says but the fact the LSA even got on their radar is enough of a testimonial IMO. The fact they liked it, well its just hard to ignore the truth sometimes.

Speaking of The Truth, more to come...

Keep us posted Bill. That should be interesting. I am still interested in hearing it at some point just for the sake of keeping an open mind.

Strong work Tony on your review of the LSA and Truth passives. I saw that Stereophile gave the LSA a commendation for value and performance recently. Congrats to George for the long years of hard work.

Tony, which config do you have with your LSA in the stream? VAC>>Audiokinesis or are you using that other amp listed in your system?

Tony was very kind to let me play with his Lightspeed unit. I really appeciate his kindness. I will post comments once I have heard more kinds of music etc...

Hmmm. From an engineering standpoint, the DMS opinion on system requirements makes sense to me and lines up with the logic as applied to passives in general. Your experience contradicts his and another TRL owner how has heard it. System/ear etiology I presume....

From elsewhere in this thread are some of George's comments:

Regarding using the LSA with low sensitive speakers, a question/answer:

Grannyring: I have a question for you owners of this exciting volume pot. Will it work well on speakers that are 87 db efficient like Soundlab speakers and other ESL's? I say this assuming the amps are very powerful and the spec criteria mentioned by the poster are meet by the source unit and amps.

George: My Martin Logan Monoliths ESL's are around 86db, I am never more than 11 o'clock for very very loud listening. I make it a point of asking customers with low efficiency speaker where the position of the volume control is for good loud level listening, and the worst was 82db speakers and he was still only at 1 to 2 o'clock for loud listening sessions.

Regarding system requirements George states:

If your source output impedance is less than 200ohm and your poweramp input impedance is more than 47Kohm then the Lightspeed Attenuator is a shoe in, no buffer will sound better.

I have read where short interconnects are best suited to the LSA, less than 2m.

Grannyring has my LSA right now and is using it with his Sound Lab speakers and Atma-Sphere amps. He's given me positive preliminary thoughts on the sound so perhaps he'll weigh in on this later.

I personally have tried the LSA with scenarios that are not as ideal as previously mentioned. For example, an amp with less than 47k ohm input and a digital source with more than 200 ohm output impedance. One thing that never happened in my usage was a change to a 2D sound stage, However, I will add that in my system imaging and sound stage are recording dependent.

I also now use battery power for the LSA. There is a difference versus using the stock wall wart, but I can't identify it. However, I will say I prefer the battery power method. Just something about it that sits better with me.

George, I did end up reviewing the DIY forums and had a few thoughts and questions.

1. Are Silonex NSL-32SR2 LDRs used in the LSA? From my limited understanding, this entity consists of a Cadmium Sulphide photocell coupled to an LED within a light-tight enclosure. This is used in lieu of a traditional metal resistor and may account for (as you insinuated) for the LSAs sound. What is the typical lifespan on a LDR?

2. Does the input and output impedances of LDR-based attenuators vary with attenuation level?

3. It seems that the LSAs performance is contingent on system conditions. What are the "ideal" conditions for the LA? Sensitive speakers, short ICs, and amps with an high input impedance? One blog on the LSA I found on DMS Audio stated the following: "In a system with sensitive speakers it works amazingly well. However with difficult loads such as a power amp needing an active pre-amp with voltage gain like my Nelson Pass F5 or the F3, or using speakers under 90+ db then it is not as great. It still has the same wide sound, deep bass, detail and naturalness, but it sounds 2D with no projection. It just lacks that edge and bite of an active stage."

Your comments on this?

Either Mogami or Intuitive Design depending on the amp I am using.

1mt each each side of the Lightspeed Attenuator of Eichman Express Six unshielded.
I have found shielded cable a little constricted compared to unshielded of the same construction, I believe these days with CD high level output 2v there is no RF break-through any more. Shielded cable is just a hang-over from the low output mV phono days.

Cheers George

Cardas GR.

What ICs are Lightspeed owners using?

Agear and guys, let's get the name of the main devices inside the Lightspeed Attenuator correct, they are not solar cells, they are not optocouplers, they are LDR's (Light Dependent Resistors). These LDR's are made from (back in the old days) Cadmium Sulphide, which back in the 70's were almost impossible to match up for me, and were unreliable, I needed about 100 units to get 4 matched. Now the ones I use are made of something else they won't say what they keep it close to their chest, but it has enabled me to match 4 out of about 30 units and the reliability is no longer a factor.
Some of the "tech heads" are saying that it's the Cadmium Sulphide or whatever it is that these LDR's "Light Dependent Resistors" are made out of , is what makes the Lightspeed sound better than metal or carbon film resistors, this could have a slight bearing.
But you know what I believe and have seen if you read my explanation on DIY Forum or read my PDF broucher about "Dynamic Contact Bounce"
Cheers George

Tony, that will be kool. Dale had talked about showing with Silcon Arts 2-3 years ago. In addition to the CF pre, he will be using those frankenstein tube amps, the Amber Waves. Crazy. He will also be demoing his new conditioning technology. Let me know what you think. Dale drives me to drink in terms of timeliness, but his gear is superb.

When I have more energy and time, I will attempt to slog through the DIY thread.

I should know today, but I hope to be going to RMAF. If I attend I will be doing so as an assistant to Hajime Sato in the Concert Fidelity/Silicon Arts Design room. So I will definitely have time to stop by Dale's room as well. Last time I was at RMAF Dale canceled his visit at the last minute, so I never had a chance to meet him. It's something I hope to check off my to do list.

I agree the thread over at the DIY site is a bit winded, but there is a lot of great information about the history and uses of the opto coupler. Nelson Pass even partakes for a bit. In comparison, The Truth preamp I have uses photo cells, but not opto couplers. The idea is basically the same though as attenuation is controlled by an LED that shines light on the resistors. Looks pretty cool in action.

George, for the sake of those who don't want to sift through all the technical particulars and for this thread, what are the salient features of your design? George, as a resister, how does the optocoupler compare to a fixed 1% metal film Roederstein or Vishay in terms of noise?

The actual history behind this device is interesting (and George, correct me if I a wrong). Solar cells that changed resistance with light were developed in the 50s. Audio Amateur articles mentioned the use of these cells in a compressor circuit. Audio Directions ran an article in about '75 about a dynamic range expander based on the optocoupler. This so-called optocoupler was apparently adapted from radio station and recording opto compressors.

Pubul57, so you owned the ARS twice? I was looking at pics of it recently, and it looks like the level of fit and finish is high. I was also looking at the JE Monoblocks and pre further down the road if I had stuck with the Merlins.

Tony, I agree that blinded sessions can be a mixed bag if not set up correctly. In light of the LSAs requirements, it would be easy to tilt things towards an active in a shootout. That being said, it would be fun and informative.

In terms of the VRE-1 and Concert Fidelity, I was simply quoting TVAD from your review/thread of the LSA. I was not aware of these technical specifics. I would be helpful for him to chime in.

Dale is indeed using the CF piece. I believe Hajime Sato has admired Dale's Essence pre-amp designs and speakers. I did not know there was a relationship there. Dale is supposed to have some crazy new speaker at RMAF. TBD....I wish I was going.

I did not realize that the Concert Fidelity pre was a "passive with balls" also.

Not sure what you mean. The CF-080 preamp has a gain stage so technically it can't be a passive. The Si2 preamp which I own and uses the same volume control as the CF-080 is a zero gain device using an active buffer. That could be classified as a passive with balls IMO. IIRC I believe the VRE-1 engages a gain stage when the volume control reaches a certain level. So it too has passive attributes. Quite a nice preamp to boot.

For some light reading on the Si2 lineup look here:

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=hug&n=150154&highlight=Silicon+Arts+Design+clio09&r=

I was pleasantly surprised to receive an email from my friend Hajime Sato regarding RMAF and the use of Concert Fidelity gear by Dale Pitcher. It will be interesting to hear with his speakers.

I should have thought about that, take that over remote cotrol any day.

I like the idea of blind listening sessions, why are so many audiophiles and reviewers against it, or at least to believe in it as a effective method for assessment? That always seemed odd to me. Yes, it would be a good idea to do such a test absent the knowledge of when one is listening to a particular piece, especially when they have invested themselves in a piece financially and/or emotionally.

Most of these tests as conducted today are flawed to some extent. Unfortunately you can't create an accurate enough control environment. That being said I think they are fun and a method by which opinions can be shared and discussed. Not that we're going to get any definitive answers, more likely the usual subjective opinions.

One thing that would be nice in the LSA, and most modern preamps, though it might "ruinous" or a least "deleterious", is a scheme for balance control to account for recording mixes, room geometry, and human frailty as we age - not sure how many ears are balanced L/R- perhaps than we would like.

Mine technically has a balance control by virtue of it's dual volume controls. I like this feature for all the reasons mentioned above.

Owned the Ars Sonum (twice:)) Most recently I have owned CAT SL1 Ultimate, Lamm LL2, ARC LS25, Dodd Battery, Joule LA 150MKII Signature Edition, Placette Active Linestage and RVC, K&K TVC, and the BENT TAP AVC. Of that batch, the Joule was my favourite, but sold it after a month or so with the LSA, just did not make sense to me to keep it, in my system with an EMM Labs front end (switchable 2v and 3.6v output), the LSA played on par or better to those, though I only had the Joule at the same time. I never compared it with the Atma preamp I own becuase I use it exclusively with the Atma-amps. The LSA is used with my single ended Music Reference amps. If I were to make a sane recommendation for Merlin owners, it would be to get the Ars Sonum, and "stop worrying about it":) Not that is was the best, but it is good enough to get off the equipment merry-go-round.

Pubul57, I like the concept of blinded sessions to remove bias. It is quasi-scientific. I think a lot of manufacturers are sensitive to the whole shootout model (blinded or not) since a poorly executed setup can talk the results and hurt their business. I am aware that most hi end audio companies in the US are mom & pop outfits, and the last thing I want to do is damage their livelihood. That being said, my pre-amp maker (TRL Dude) was stoked about the idea.

I think a second issue is pride. A lot of philes are wedded to their gear and get tribal on you fast (myself included) when challenged. At this point, I don't care about looking like a rube. If something is better, its better. The truth sets you free at the end of the day.

Prior to owning a Dude, I experimented at the level of the pre-amp quite a bit. My Wifi front end has enough juice to easily drive amps directly. I liked the sense of clarity, but the soundstage was always too flat for me. It did not sound right. In my previous rig, I used a Granite Audio 657 tubed CDP without a pre-amp. It had an enormous amount of gain in the output stage, and my system always sounded more dynamic and alive without a pre-amp. This was an experience shared by a majority of 657 owners. Conceptually, it harkened back to the 80s/90s when a straight wire with gain was thought to be optimal (by some).

Bringing things into the present tense, I discovered the TRL Dude (thanks Bill/Grannyring). It had the dynamics and sense of control of the 657 with with so much more. That being said, I am always open to hearing "more." TVAD mentioned his new VRE-1 as being a passive "with balls" and how much he is in love with that device. I did not realize that the Concert Fidelity pre was a "passive with balls" also. Dale Pitcher from Intuitive Design is using that pre at RMAF this year. I own some of his equipment and respect his ears. That being said, a buddy of mine who owns a highly modded but vintage TRL GT3 pre-amp (15 years + I believe) recently demoed both the Concert Fidelity and Lightspeed and still preferred the TRL pre. In particular, he said the LS lacked "dynamics and control."

Pubul57, out of curiosity, what pre-amps have you compared this device to? Atma-sphere per chance? Have you ever hear it with solid state amps? What is your source? It does seem as if you need fairly specific conditions for the LS to thrive.

As an FYI, I used to be a Merlin owner. Loved those speakers. Was about to purchase the ARS Filharmonia and got sucked down another rabbit hole audiophile style....

Agear hi your questions to me are answered here it's a big read, I started doing these some 30 years ago it was new then, I should have patent it, it is refined sonically to the max today, without being overly complex, and pricing kept low as possible.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/80194-lightspeed-attenuator-new-passive-preamp.html

www.lightspeedattenuator.com

Cheers George

One thing that would be nice in the LSA, and most modern preamps, though it might "ruinous" or a least "deleterious", is a scheme for balance control to account for recodring mixes, room geometry, and human frailty as we age - not sure how many ears are balanced L/R- perhaps than we would like. I think HP once said not having a balance control was a fatal design flaw - yet one that is very, very common in purist designs.

I like the idea of blind listening sessions, why are so many audiophiles and reviewers agaisnt it, or at least to believe in it as a effective method for assessment? That always seemed odd to me. Yes, it would be a good idea to do such a test absent the knowledge of when one is listening to a particular piece, epsecially when they have invested themselves in a piece financially and/or emotionally. I don't know if the LSA is the best preamp, which doesn't exist, but I pretty happy knowing that for $450 I was able to sell my active preamp that was $7,000 more without any obvious sense that is not as good (enjoyable). That can make anyone a devotee on the basis of value alone.

Publus57, the active vs. passive debate is indeed an interesting (and old) one. Many of the guys making active pre-amps today have toyed with passive designs in the past.

My crude understanding of the Lightspeed and devices like it is that its a variable resistor triggered by light. This idea is not new. Georgelofi, what is proprietary or unique about your particular design?

For end users, I wonder if the sonic signature of the Lightspeed (an oxymoron) is easily distinguishable from other passives? If you were to undergo actual blinded listening sessions, could you even pick it out in a lineup? That is a question I ask myself about my own equipment.

A friend of mine (who owns a big name active) demoed the Lightspeed and said it did a lot of things well, but it did not displace his active pre-amp. He did have some long ICs which may have sullied the demo in his mind.

For the sake of clarity and unbiased reporting, I would be more than willing to do some blinded listening sessions of active vs. passive pre-amps (in the Charlotte NC area). I will make sure to involve more people than simply devotees of the individual devices involved.

I think this is beyond the reach of logic, it is simply a matter of trying it within the system context as you proscribe and listening for yourself. With all the preamps I have tried (most $5,000+ tube preamps)I've concluded that most negative comment about passives (and resistor versus TVC/AVC for that matter) must come from those with a financial interest (as makers or owners of active preamps), or simply not evaluated in the right system context, or one simply likes euphonic colorations - and they have every right to prefer that. In the wrong system context, it would be like proclaiming the weakness of low watt SETs by evaluating them with a pair of Thiel or B&W speakers, a meaningless assessment of what SETs can do.

You are right Paul, in some instances.
But in our case with the parameters I have outlined for the Lightspeed Attenuator, if you have a source that has low output impedance, less than 100ohm and 2v or more output voltage, and the power amp at more than 50kohms input impedance, there is absolutely no need for preamplification, (it's Ohms Law). No amount of extra current in the form of extra active current stages will have the desired effect of giving more drive and control, if fact the opposite could be had and heard, as well as a loss of transparency.
Cheers George

Maybe you have even better amp/speaker synergy. That's where the real magic in sound reproduction lies.

George, the "passive" "active" debate seems to me more problematic the the tube versus SS debate, for in the latter, there remains room for both to coexist. The passive argument, if right, threatens manufacturers of active preamps, reviewers and magazines supported by advertising from makers of active preamps, and also threatens owners of active preamps that have invested in them and might feel compelled to justify the expense of the gear and protect it from dimishment of the value of their asset. Not to say that there are not systems that need an active to perform well, and I think that is covered here pretty well.

In a review of the Wytech Opal in Positive Feedback, the reviwer said:
Something very interesting goes on when a preamp handles a low-level signal (or not so low in the case of CD). In theory, a preamp should be unnecessary when the source is capable of 2 volts (standard maximum output for a CD player), but experience has shown me that doing without an active preamp does not lead to improved sound. One possible explanation for this is that most CD players have relatively weak output stages. In most cases, they consist of a few op amps and/or some discrete transistors, driven by a power supply that can barely be deemed adequate by high-end audio standards. For the purpose of driving an amp, most are inadequate, and the result is often a bit harsh and/or harmonically "bleached." There is resolution but not refinement, suggesting a system under stress at musical peaks. Also, the sound often lacks dynamics. Many internet contributors claim that this is the sound that was actually recorded, and that if you don't like an aggressive, flat soundstage and lifeless dynamics, you simply can't handle the truth. Some even conclude that an active preamp, which can provide effortless dynamics, a deep, wide soundstage, and palpable, 3-D imaging, is in fact generating artifacts or "enhancements" that are not on the recording. I don't believe that these effects are artifacts, but information that is lost when those recordings are played on lesser systems. Making classical recordings in a real space has led me to believe that these spacial characteristics are real, and can be either captured or added in the mix.

Another argument for eliminating an active line stage is it does not in fact amplify anything, but acts "merely" as an attenuator 90 percent of the time. While it is true that the input is often of a higher voltage than the output, an active preamp also gives the signal a deep reservoir of current drive and voltage stability from its own power supply. Think for a moment about how a preamp works. First, the signal from the source arrives and is attenuated, then the signal is amplified again—replicated, if you will—by a circuit that has a larger and more stable power reserve than the original source. Since the gain of most preamps is fixed, the active part of the line stage is always amplifying the signal, not attenuating it. Since it is only the amount of signal to be amplified from the volume attenuator that changes, the concept that an active line stage is only attenuating the signal is false. In fact, the preamp first reduces the incoming signal, then beefs it back up with (ideally) the same amount of information, but greater drive and control."

What do you think of that? I think my EMM Labs must have a pretty good power supply....

"

I much prefer direct coupling, I can hear coupling caps. But I do not think this circuit can be direct coupled as I think there is a high input offset from the chip amp, I could tell better if they gave a the internal circuit diagram to it, but they don't.
Cheers George

George, what don't you like about that 1uf coupling cap? Any suggestions for modifying the circuit?

I will try the 82k ohm resistor. Thanks for the suggestion.

BTW - the amps I have in house are full range only.

I assume you are using the input that is full range not the one with the roll off at 70hz.
The diagram actually shows it's 27k input impedance this together with the 1uf coupling cap (yuck) gives a 5hz -3db roll off, the opamp is a 14watt chip amp that has an input impedance of 5megohm, you could change the 27k for 82k and you will see it will sound better. And go lower theoretically as the 82k resistor now with the 1uf coupling cap (yuck) will now go down to 2hz -3db but you will not hear this as the interstage transformer and output transformer cannot go down this far anyway.
But don't switch on the amp without the Lightspeed attached as that will let the chip amp see only the 82k resistor and chip amp may complain, when the Lightspeed is attached it sees the 7k odd of the Lightspeed and it will think everything is fine still.
Cheers George
by Georgelofi

George, maybe you can help me figure something out. I was using the Lightspeed with a pair of monoblocks that supposedly had a 10k input. Theoretically this would not be an ideal match for the Lightspeed, but I heard nothing out of the ordinary. Any explanation for this? The link shows a schematic for the circuit.

http://electra-print.com/singleended_a2.php

That is correct, buffers are there to drive long interconnects, and or low input impedance amps. There is no perfect buffer they all sound different As there is no perfect interconnect they all sound different, unless the amp is so low in input impedance then this puts all interconnects (within reason) on a level playing field

I keep comming back to this, plug the cd player straight into poweramp ( with more than 47kohms input impedance) with good quaity 1-2mt interconnects, this is the perfect transmission of the cd players sound (save for the interconnects signature), then put in the Lightspeed Attenuator without buffer and see how little it influences that sound compared to any other active pre or buffer.
Cheers George

George, is it your view that the Buffering used in preamps, and passives like the BENT, The Truth, or the First Watt B1 is there for handling worst case scenarios - long or high capacitance interconnects, or amps with low input impedances, but where the ICs are low capacitance (Cardas GR 12p/ft) or high input impedances (100kohm)that a bufferless approach will always be superior? That is how I read it, and that something like the LSA is about as good as you can get in not altering the source signal to the amp.

From what we have learnt and heard for myself, the only way to make all interconnects invisible (sound the same) with no sonic signature, is to have the poweramp input impedance at 1kohm or less, this then becomes a hard load for the pre to drive unless it has an output impedance of close to 1ohm and plenty of current behind it, something like the top Krell pre amps may be that low, then the pre itself has a sonic signature itself, so it's not an easy task.
Cheers George

Yes the idea of an active preamp, or in the case of The Truth preamp, a buffered passive, the idea is to control the ICs. However, in unbalanced designs its my understanding that while this might provide some benefit to using longer runs (ex. you can use 30 ft. ICs with the Truth with no sonic degradation), it doesn't mean that the coloration/artifacts of the cable itself can't be heard.

I've convinced my tech here to design a passive balanced preamp that supports the 600 ohm standard. If I use this with my Atma-Sphere S-30 I should be able to eliminate the cable coloration/artifact from the equation.

You are right Pubul57, the momment you start to lower a digital based volume control, you start to whats called "bit strip" the name says it all, and this lowers the resoution. Aways leave it full up when using in conjuction whith the Lightspeed.
But also be carefull some dac's and cdp's have analog based volume controls and these are usually sub grade passive motorized or non-motorized on the output of the cdp or dac. Most times you have also fixed ouput rca's as well on these cdp/dac, always better going for it and a Lightspeed than the analog variable output. If there are no fixed ouput rca's, better to open it up and bypass the passive pots by taking them out of the output totaly.
Cheers George

I would think so, as in essence a fully open ouput with a variable output CD player would be the same (I think)as a regular CD player with a fixed output and you would be controlling volume with a superior attenuator than what is built into the CD/DAC. That is what I think, but I would rather have someone more technical pipe in.

Yes, if the control is wide-open, or at least above a certain level, there is no loss in resolution. Assuming you were able to use/keep the DVC at a level above which there was no loss in resolution, would there be a benefit in using the LSA?

Is it the case that one a digital volume control is fully open, no attenuation, there is no loss in resolution? That was my understanding, but I am not technically proficient.

There are a number of DACs on the market with 1V or greater output and digital volume control. Setting aside potential loss in resolution from the DVC, would the LSA provide better sound than direct-to-amp?

Anthony, if I read Ralph right, "Not to mention we haven't even discussed cables and as Ralph Karsten so often states, the coloration/artifact added by cables also has to be taken into account." what he has been saying, and given the fact that he makes and sells activ e tube linestages, I seem to hear him say that the reason for an active is to control the ICs, and that is the basic reason for an active, it's buffering of source-pre-cable-amp. Suggesting a preamp makes for a more universal tool in more systems, but that when the total capacitance is dealt with a passive is about as good as it gets, absent the need or desire for colorations of tone or "space".

Pub- Thank you for referencing some jazz. Yes, good-ol' Cannonball. Years ago, the guys in my band (the instrumentalists, I was the singer) got to sit-in with 'Weather Report' (Jaco was a friend of my bass player), and possibly coolest of all, Benny Goodman, Bobby Rosengarden(drums), and Bucky Pizzarelli(guitar), on what might have been Benny's last performance tour. You should hear some clarinet on vinyl thru a Lightspeed. When I use the Lightspeed for records, all I'm running is a "budget" Cambridge Audio 640P into it, behind a N.O.S Grace F9F mm on a Thorens TD160, and it's incredible. Re: "The Shootout" ... Whatever they were hearing was not the Lightspeed, unless there was a black hole nearby, with it's singularity pulling on, and distorting the light between the LED and the LDR. That might have given the Lightspeed the colorations and artifacts some needed ... in case the rest of the system was perfect, and soundless.

09-09-10: Clio09
Dynavector 20XL low output version rated 0.25mV. However, mine was going into amps whose sensitivity was rated 1V and 0.7V respectively.

The extra +4dB gain that you have over my phono leads to ~37% more output. That could be the difference between barely acceptable and good performance. But, now you've got me thinking that I may have jumped to a flawed conclusion and I should have played around with more IC's. Sadly, I sold the Graham Slee Era phono & EXP stepup, it's possible I didn't need to.

The upside of this may be that I have no reason not to try the Lightspeed in the near future. Especially at it's price.

maybe I'm mistaking you for someone else...I've been to that pictured location in San Pedro listed on your system page (I think you've moved since then) and bought one of your two Scheu turntables at the time. Having two of those tables, me thinks you're probably not a vinyl newbie, but hey, when it comes to vinyl set-up we all make mistakes.

Ha! Good memory, that's me. I moved out of that house 3 years ago, and have slowly been selling off the system for "the next big thing"(which still hasn't happened). I still have the Cain & Cain speakers and the Scheu w/ 80mm platter, though. I'm in a much, much, smaller apt right now, but want to get a vinyl and really good headphone system going in the next few months to hold me over until I move again.

I guess I should be saying "Full Lightspeed ahead!"

I would though argue that a neutral preamp can be mixed with the widest range of sources and amps, which are then left to present their own sonic signatures.

That's exactly why I'll only have tubes in the amp and nowhere else in the chain. Too many tubes, too much coloration/artifact (granted other non-tube components such as transistors and op amps can add coloration/artifact, but IMO tubes can be the worst culprits). Not to mention we haven't even discussed cables and as Ralph Karsten so often states, the coloration/artifact added by cables also has to be taken into account. Too bad the Lightspeed couldn't be developed as a balanced version that supported the 600 ohm pro audio standard. Then we could eliminate the cable from the equation as well.