I have been biting my tongue on this thread since it started. I am pleased to announce that the first half of my review of the Legacy Focus HD is now on Dagogo.com - the second half will be posted on Feb. 15th. |
Ghoeper, No, I have not heard the 20/20 or else I would have mentioned a direct comparison; I tried to be careful not to mislead on that aspect. I surmise that there is quite a difference in sound since the "transition" driver is eliminated, and a second true woofer added in its place. Bill made quite a point of the advancement of the 7" silver-graphite drivers over the Kevlar. The soft dome in the 20/20, which always caused Bill grief in its difficulty to adjust and integrate is totally removed, and an absolutely stunning sounding (IMO) mid planar element added. The Neo-ribbon tweeter is superb in delicacy. Because of these things I think the presentation would be quite elevated over the 20/20.
The second half of the review is really the marrow of the matter, with mention of the electronics paired with them. I think most audiophiles in the hunt for speakers will find that the most helpful aspect of the review.
The first part of the review is concerning design and the second part will delve into the listening experience. I put quite a bit into description of the sound in the article, so you should get a good feel for it.
What speakers are you using now? Impossible to say what your experience would be, unless I know what speakers you now have. Then I can most likely let you know what to expect if you change. |
Ghoeper, Ah, Altec Lansing. Man, I haven't heard that name in ages! Memories...Altec was one of the speaker brands that everyone knew back then. I'll bet a lot of Agoners owned them.
They've seen better days, and the technology is WAY better (on virtually all speakers)now. If they've served you well for two decades, it's time to reward yourself and get some contemporary speakers. You won't believe the difference in sound!
Your goal: "What I'm looking for in a speaker is one that will be a big step above what I have now, one that my system will be able to give justice to it's capability's, and one that is good enough so that future epuipment upgrades will benifit from their quality."
There are many speakers which can achieve that goal. If you're serious about the Focus HD's, while I must leave guarantees to the manufacturer's, let's say I don't think you would have any problem whatsoever in more than meeting those goals with the HD's. These speakers fit very comfortably in $30k rigs. So, you'd have some upgrade room.
If you get them here's what you'll notice, in general:
World's better treble, with far cleaner highs, less enmeshment of cymbals, triangles, and synthesized effects etc. Mids will be magical, extremely listenable and placed at a realistic height to be authentic sounding to the ears. Your gear is pretty strident, so don't expect absolute warmth. In fact, with your current gear, you will hear much more treble, but if it's too much for you the attenuation switch can be activated until you get some more forgiving components. However, as you progress in components the speaker will get more and more rich and captivating, and absolutely non-fatiguing. Bass will be intoxicating; far cleaner and fuller than the Altec. It would be difficult to get this degree of improvement in a speaker without spending much more money (possibly double).
Again, many speakers now can offer vast improvements over the Altec's. I have heard many excellent speakers. I do know that if you get the HD's, you're likely to think, "I've really reached it, the ultimate in sound." Not even close. There's LOT's of upgrade performance in them, even with $20k of components. I'll be curious what you end up doing. Make sure to post it on this thread. |
CpK, no need to open it up; I toured the factory and saw everything - crossovers, wiring, etc. for the HD's. Yes, there is some clear 12Ga cable used on the harness and with the bass drivers. It's sourced from an audio cable manufacturer, not generic electrical cord. That cable internally and drivers he's using are working extremely well (I'll leave potential buyers to determine if I have good ears on this matter).
As I said, I didn't get a chance to hear the 20/20, but I'll say this, if Bill could get this sound out of the HD's using chicken wire, I wouldn't care (Well, ok, I would, but I'd really struggle because the parts would bother me, but the sound would be undeniable). As an aside, the drivers are matched. I have heard many speakers which boast pristine, perfect cabling and they haven't overwhelmed me. The HD's are just plain impressive, truly outstanding at the $7k mark. You'll see that I state similar sentiments in the review. I think that anyone who hears them on a good system, with $25k of components and cabling or higher, would understand why.
I had one audiophile in for a listen, and he thought they might be in the range of $20k. When I told them they were $7k he said, quote, "That's a lot of speaker for $7k" It's hard to remain objective when excited by a product. There are several outstanding speakers (maybe four or six?)in every price range. In my world, this is one of them (Anyone can think my world is weird and my perceptions horrible, but I leave it up to the pool of potential purchasers to determine if I am right).
Whatever Bill Dudleston is doing, my ears tell me he's doing things RIGHT at this time with this model. |
Ghoeper.... The drive will be worth your time. |
Gheoper, You beat me to it; I was going to announce the second half of the article. I guess I did like them, didn't I? :)
Don't worry over the break in; you'll know if you like their sound or not when you hear them. I wouldn't make any purchase of a component based on hopes that it will sound better after break in. You need to know you love its sound as is, even if it never improved. Any break in would be bonus. |
Ghoeper, I'm flattered at your compliment. (To the community: Seriously, I'm not paying this guy to say these things!) :)
Frankly, I haven't heard a speaker yet which has 8" bass drivers or less which has, as you so aptly put it, weighed as much as the world's oceans or mountains. While there are certainly other speakers which can do so more than the HD's, I've not seen many in this price range that do so. I certainly don't think the Focus HD's are fish pond or hillside quality.
Ever been to Lake Louise, Alberta? I have (I'm not Canadian; my wife is - er, was - she's a U.S. citizen now. Ironically, the day we went downtown to have her sworn in after she went through the long and somewhat expensive process of obtaining U.S. citizenship there were thousands of illegal aliens in the streets protesting, demanding they be excused from the law and granted citizen status. Needless to say, it left a very bitter feeling in our minds - not toward any specific individuals, but to the mentality that says, "We can defy the laws of a land, then turn around and demand we get all the benefits of citizenship.").
Anyway, Lake Louise is stunningly beautiful; a hanging glacier looks over a world class mountain lake, the sky mirrored in it's crystal clear surface. One can take in the beauty for hours. Can a speaker create an emotionally equivalent feeling of experiencing something of tremendous beauty in the sonic realm? If it can, it's a winner!
Re: Bass, this is a speaker which I have not felt the need to be benefited by supplementing with subwoofers. No doubt, it could be, IF the subs were extremely LF (as in significantly below 20Hz), and extremely high quality. The vast majority of even decent subs would actually muddy the performance. |
I don't know that I would have liked the sound of that combination of components with the HD's either. The HD's will absolutely show you what's upstream. |
Chad, you're just a bit off...
Try three purchases of reviewed components, and one of them was an upgrade (to the MkIII version) on the Pathos Classic One amps I already owned. The two items I purchased were speakers; Von Schweikert VR-4 SR MKII's, which were just recently replaced by the Legacy Focus HD's.
I purchased the Rega Saturn and Pathos amps full boatload price as a consumer prior to reviewing. Of my own initiative I asked the companies to write up a review for these components I feel are excellent.
So, you're only off by 88%, if you cut me some slack on upgrading the Pathos amps. :) |
Chad, I'm guessing you look at the reviews and see "Doug Schroeder's Associated Components" and think I own all that stuff. I wish! I own only a fraction of all the equipment. The review components rotate in, and rotate out. The listing morphs over time, as it does for any reviewer. I try to keep the listing current for each review. I should probably shorten it to "Associated Components" to avoid any confusion. |
I built my room for specifically audio presentation. The HD's are three feet from the head wall and two feet from the sides.
The room is tuned and does not have brightness and reflectivity problems. If the room you heard them in had a lot of hard surfaces it would effect the experience.
My stance is this: If a speaker sounds very poor to you, then positioning will almost never "save" it or radically transform it. If it sounds mostly good, but off just a bit, then positioning can help it become outstanding. The speaker should sound so good to you that you don't have to worry over considerations/concerns about postitioning.
Truthfully, though there may be some environmental issues at work, I do not believe these would be greater influence than the equipment the speaker is paired with. I can't overemphasize that these speakers WILL reveal what's going on upstream and do so exquisitely. A rough source/amp will sound harsh, and a refined source/amp will sound pleasurable and smooth.
You seem not to believe me when I say that break in will not radically change the sound of a speaker. Do not expect vast differences, only extremely subtle - if audible at all - changes in the speaker after break in. Far too much hope is pinned on a speaker, amp, etc. changing from the audition experience. Don't count on it. I believe I have heard significant differences in performance in some equipment in my room. However, just the different environment alone between the store and your room will be more important than any break in effect.
As far as the size issue; The HD's are larger (185# each)than most speakers I have used in the room, but sound far superior. Actually, the ports are extremely small for such large speakers; the HD does not depend on huge help from ports to achieve its low end. The speaker honestly puts out bass similar to a subwoofer from its forward firing dual 12" drivers. As such they can be put a bit closer to the head wall without ruining the sound. I have had them as close as 1.5' from my head wall and the sound was fine. Not the absolute best, but absolutely better than average.
A great speaker can sound so/so with the wrong components, but no speaker will remake itself after break in. A speaker which will win your heart over will likely be able to do so right out of the box. If nothing stirs in you, even after hearing it with two or three sets of components, then you should move on.
The Vandersteen is a worthy speaker and should be listened to as well. If you hear them both with SS and tube amplification you'll likely have your decision on which one is right for you. They're both terrific speakers and excellent values. |
You're forgiven; I have Reviewed five speakers so far, kept (purchased one), then after a year sold it and replaced it with one. Does that qualify me as A.D.D.?
I do not believe it is wrong, after a resonable time, to upgrade a reference if something more to my liking is found. I had to start somewhere with a reference, and I'm trying to move upward efficiently. I do not plan on flipping speakers or any other gear, but it would be foolish to not pursue what I feel is superior gear.
I have owned the Vandersteen 2CE's in the past and heard every model of Vandy, including the 5's. The decision to purchase the Focus HD was not made from ignorance of the Vandersteen line. As I said, it's a good brand. |
Chad, I appreciate your comment, and no hard feelings. I guess I'm much more serious about reviewing than I was a year or two ago. It's quite a bit of work, actually. I have spent hundreds of hours on communications with manufacturers and distributors, research, interviews, writing and re-writing in addition to set up of equipment and listening sessions.
In some ways I'm not as carefree a listener as I used to be. It is true that when one reviews some of the joy is lost. It becomes more business-like. It's not just about having fun anymore, but trying to have some fun while working.
One of the joys of audio is the camaraderie that builds between enthusiasts. You and several others have been a joy to get to know.
I'm leaving off here for a while; two or three reviews are calling. They'll be good ones - full of enthusiastic rantings about how the equipment "blew me away" etc. ;)
By the way, I've seen the disgust that audiophiles express about such tired expressions in reviews and I work to avoid it. I don't want to become a cliche machine. |
