Left and right subwoofers with integrated
Two subs typically perform and sound about twice as good as a single sub. You'll notice more solid and powerful bass with more realistic bass dynamics, a greater sense of ease, better detail and more seamless integration of the bass with your main speakers. Two subs have a basic advantage over just one primarily due to bass being cumulative in a given room; since there are two they can share the total bass demands between them with both operating optimally at outputs well within their limits. Here's the most useful advice I can give you for your scenario: 1. Most humans cannot localize (tell exactly where the sound is coming from) on bass sound tones below about 80 Hz, which means all bass below this threshold will most likely be perceived by yourself as mono. Since your integrated only has one set of l+r preouts and each of your subs requires a l+r channel input, however, I believe the connection method you described (using a couple of y-adapters) would work well. There's no real advantage or disadvantage of using this dual y-adapters method. You're going to perceive the bass below about 80 Hz as mono no matter how you connect your subs. The good news is that you'll still perceive a sense of stereo deep bass in your sound stage presentation due to the deep bass harmonics or overtones of the fundamental bass tones, which extend beyond 80 Hz and can be localized, being reproduced through your main stereo speakers. 2. If your goal is optimum bass performance at a designated listening seat in your room, I would also strongly advise against placing your subs in predetermined positions within the room, such as diagonally or any other convenient or predetermined locations. The reason is that bass sound waves have an omnidirectional radiation pattern and their lengths are so long ( a 20 Hz deep bass sound wave is about 56' long), it's unavoidable that bass standing waves will exist at specific spots in your room no matter where you position each of your subs. These spots are easily identified since the bass at your listening seat will sound overemphasized (a peak), underemphasized (a dip) or even non-existent (a cancellation) if your seat happens to be positioned by one of these bass standing waves. The only methods I'm aware of, to ensure bass standing waves don't exist at your listening seat, are to position each sub sequentially using the 'sub crawl' method (google it) or using mics and other room analysis and correction hardware/software. I think it's important to note that the above are not merely my opinions but are based on acoustic research and knowledge that can be readily verified online. Hoped this helped you, Tim |
jjss49:"
good advice given stereo subs are wonderful, transformative of many systems good for you!" tony1954, Just for the record and your edification, there's no such thing as 'stereo bass' or 'stereo subs' beyond my description in my last post of the bass fundamental bass tones below about 80 Hz being reproduced by a pair of mono subs, which we cannot localize, and the bass harmonics or overtones of the fundamental bass tones, which often extend beyond about 80 Hz that we can localize,being reproduced by the main stereo speakers. Our brains are able to associate the bass harmonics or overtones, that are above 80 Hz and coming from the main stereo speakers, with the fundamental bass tones, that are below 80 Hz and coming from the subs, and create the perception of stereo bass. I suspect some individuals confuse these stereo bass perceptions created by our brain's amazing associative abilities with the results of simply physically configuring their system with separate l+r channel subs in their systems. They just don't completely understand the true cerebral associative forces at work and believe their "stereo sub" configuration is responsible for them perceiving stereo deep bass. In my opinion, this is a common and understandable mistake which, ultimately, is not that big a deal. No matter whether we configure our subs in stereo or mono operation, the final result is the same: we're all actually listening to mono deep bass from the subs and stereo harmonics from our main stereo speakers while our brains are doing the heavy lifting and creating the perception of stereo deep bass. Tim |
Hello tony1954, Yes, you would need two y-adapters, one for the left channel and one for the right. You may also could check the SB 2000 manual and see if it's possible to connect the l+r channel pre-outs on the MF integrated to sub#1's l+r channel inputs and then piggy-back sub#2 to sub#1 via l+r channel outputs on sub#1 connected to the l+r channel inputs on sub#2. This would also result in both subs receiving identical signals just as dual y-adapters would. I'm just not sure if the SB2000s have this ability. I still believe that precise locating of each sub in your room, and in relation to your listening seat, are the primary factors in achieving optimum bass performance in your system. I used the 'sub crawl' method to sequentially locate the 4 subs in my room and it proved to be extremely effective. Later, Tim |
tony1954: " @noble100 Tim. My speakers are Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grand SE's and their rated response is 30Hz – 22kHz. The SVS sub low pass filter range is 50Hz - 160Hz. When setting the sub, do I set the filter at 50Hz or is it something done by listening?
Hello tony1954, I think it's odd that the SB2000's low pass filter control only goes as deep as 50 Hz. Your subs have a rated bass output extension down to 19 Hz and I would expect the control to have a lower setting that's closer to that. Strange but we'll need to work with what you've got. I usually suggest to set the low pass filter about 5 Hz above the rated bass extension of the main speakers and then lower this setting as low as possible,in small increments, without noticing any negative impacts in the overall bass sound quality. For example, my main speakers have a rated bass extension of 35 Hz and I initially set the low pass filter at 40 Hz on my 4 subs. I auditioned the overall system sound quality at slightly lower, and even slightly higher, low pass filter frequency settings and determined that I perceived a setting of 38 Hz to be the optimum setting in my system and room. I also want to inform you that I run my main speakers full range and suggest you do the same. With your main speakers, my guideline would translate into setting the low pass filter on your pair of subs initially at 35 Hz and slowly lowering the setting from there until you notice a decrease in overall sound quality. Obviously, you can't do this since you're limited to a lowest setting of 50 Hz. The best solution I have thought of thus far for your situation is to try 2 alternative configurations and utilize the one that sounds best to you: Option#1- Run your speakers full range and set the low pass filter controls on your subs to 50 Hz. Then initially set both subs' volume controls at 50%, or even higher, and slowly decrease both settings as low as possible, in small increments, until you perceive any negative impacts in the overall bass sound quality. Option#2- Run your speakers full range and set the low pass filter controls on your subs to the "LFE" position. This will effectively result in your subs operating full range, which means enough sound above 80 Hz may be reproduced by the subs for you to localize them. Then initially set both subs' volume controls at 50%, or even higher, and slowly decrease both settings as low as possible, in small increments, until you perceive any negative impacts in the overall bass sound quality. My current belief is that Option#1 will sound better to you but I'm not certain. There is a 3rd solution option I've thought of but this would involve purchasing a Mini DSP unit, linked to below and not very expensive, that would be inserted between your integrated outputs and the subs' inputs. https://www.minidsp.com/applications/digital-crossovers/194-subwoofer-integration-with-minidsp Later, Tim |
Hello tony1954, Yes, bass below about 80 Hz is non-directional and monaural. I think you're plan is good but I'm just concerned about whether or not frequencies above 80 Hz may also be sent to the subs and be reproduced. I'm not certain but I believe the LFE inputs on the SVS subs have no filtering at all, which means your subs might reproduce frequencies above 80 Hz and you would be able to localize these as coming from the subs. If SVS can't clarify this issue, then you would likely need to try this setup to find out for yourself. Later, Tim |
Hello Tony, That's okay but you still have the issue about whether 50 Hz is going to be the optimum crossover setting for your main speakers. I tend to think the optimum crossover freq would be closer to 40 Hz but you should check it out and make up your own mind. If 50 Hz is not low enough , I'd ask SVS why the heck did they make a sub with a rated bass extension down to 20 Hz and limit the crossover to 50 Hz. Then listen to their lame excuse and buy a Mini DSP to rectify their mistake and solve your issue. Later, Tim |
Hello Tony, Sounds good. I know from fairly extensive experience setting up my own and other systems with dual subs, that precise positioning of sub#1 and then sub#2 in relation to your designated listening seat are the key factors in achieving best results. I suggest taking your time to ensure accuracy and using the sub crawl method if you lack the more expensive room correction gear alternative. Assuming you don’t currently have the room correction gear, here’s the sub crawl procedure: 1. Hookup sub#1, place it directly in front of your designated listening seat and play some music with good and repetitive bass. Set the Volume level on each sub to 50%, the Phase to in-phase ("0") and the Crossover Frequency to 50 Hz. 2. Beginning at the right front corner of your room, slowly walk in a counter-clockwise direction around the perimeter of your room closely listening for an exact spot where the bass sounds best to you (powerful, solid, smooth, detailed, dynamic and natural). Remember to take your time, move slowly, listen closely and repeat from the beginning until you find the exact spot. 3. Once you’ve found the exact spot, move sub#1 to this specific spot. 4. Hookup sub#2, place it directly in front of your designated listening seat and play some music with good and repetitive bass again. 5. Beginning at sub#1, slowly continue walking in a counter-clockwise direction around the perimeter of your room closely listening for the next exact spot where the bass sounds best to you (powerful, solid, smooth, detailed, dynamic and natural). Remember to take your time, move slowly, listen closely and repeat this step from the beginning until you find the exact spot. 6. Once you’ve found the exact spot, move sub#2 to this specific spot. 7. Sit in your designated listening seat, play the music with good and repetitive bass again and verify the bass sounds very good to you overall. If the bass does not sound very good to you, unfortunately, you’ll need to repeat the above complete procedure. If the bass does sound very good to you, the normal next steps are to optimally set, or fine tune, the Volume, Crossover Frequency (Low Pass Filter) and Phase controls on each sub. Since you’re going to set the Crossover Frequency at its lowest available 50 Hz setting, you’ll just need to optimally set the volume and phase controls. Later, Tim |
