Krell KC-100 and KC-200 cartridges by Takeda. Any differences?


It is generally accepted that Haruo Takeda was one of the most celebrated cartridge makers in Japan, before retiring about a decade ago. Between the 1980's and early 2000's he released several models under his own Miyabi brand (Ivory, MCA and Standard) and also built cartridges for Krell, Mark Levinson, Cello and Red Rose (ML's other two brands), 47Labs and even Mobile Fidelity.

As far as I'm aware Krell was the only company who commissioned two different models from Takeda: KC-100 (in black) and KC-200 (in silver). I've tried to find out if there are other differences besides colour, but so far came up empty. The scarce information suggest that Takeda-San always built his cartridges using aluminum cantilever with Ogura PA stylus. But recently I acquired a KC-200 with boron cantilever. It's certainly one of the best carts I've ever heard, but I'd like to know if this was originally done by Takeda. Perhaps on Dan D'Agostino's request as an alternative to the aluminum cantilever KC-100. Or did I get a retipped sample. Does anyone know the facts?


edgewear

FROM THE INTERVIEW WITH TAKEDA-SAN:


To give me a feel for Takeda San's philosophy on cartridge design, Yoshi Segoshi of Sakura Systems - the US importer for Takeda San's Miyabi creations - shared some excerpts with me from interviews with Takeda San:


"There were many things that caused my frustration with reproduced music but the most essential of them was the lack of communication. The sound coming out of the speakers did not communicate with me as the sound of a live concert did. What was missing? I thought the major limiting factor was the lack of linearity in dynamics. This linearity rises smoothly from a low level pianissimo to the highest fortissimo. This dynamic linearity wasn't really linear in many past designs. Even a beautiful performance becomes unenjoyable and shrinks in scope with the dimished modulations in dynamics. For example, a piano fortissimo is reduced to a mezzo forte. While listening to Chopin's Etudes by Ashkenazy, I couldn't understand why the pianist played it like that. It didn't get exciting. Where it was supposed to boil with passion, it went soft. Very disappointing. Most of the cartridges in the past were like that. The problem was in the design itself. If you do it right, you can secure the linearity of dynamics. It took me only 30 years to realize how to do it properly.  -TAKEDA-SAN  


"Another thing that is very important is the composition of the material used at the signal input of cartridges. This material had been used in vintage pro cartridges from Western Electric, Decca, Neumann, EMI etc. (vintage mono cartridges lower left). In the early '60s, this material was replaced by another one which is easier to deal with. Since then, almost all cartridge manufacturers use the new material. That, I think, is the main reason why modern cartridges sounds smooth but rather hifi-ish. The most important midrange is not rich enough. I pretty much understood how to build this style of cartridge 15 years ago. I spent the 30 years before that experimenting. There are manufacturers who seem to recognize what's important. You'll know when you listen to their product. Assembling a cartridge is not a big deal. Everybody can do it after a year of practice. Even designing a cartridge is not a big deal if you just want an average product. It's a damn repetition and I wasted a lot of time in that pattern too."  -TAKEDA-SAN  


"I don't ship out my cartridges right after their construction. I always listen to them for a couple of hours, make any necessary adjustments and then let them sit for about a week. I then repeat the same process until at least 20 hours of listening sessions have accumulated. So it usually takes 2 - 3 months from the construction of a Miyabi cartridge to its delivery. This is a bit different from what people call break-in. A Miyabi cartridge is like a living thing made of a combination of different materials. It needs to be well taken care of to reach its stable stage in the same way that a baby needs care and a child needs an education to grow up to become a decent adult." -TAKEDA-SAN  


"When I asked Takeda San what kind of listener he designed the Miyabi Standard for, his answer surprised me: "Well, I actually designed it to appeal to myself, to the way I want to listen to music." You can't argue with the logic of designing a cartridge that you enjoy listening to yourself. Chances are that if someone with as distinguished tastes as Takeda San likes it, you and me might just like it, too. The history and background of Takeda San and his labors to handcraft each and every Miyabi cartridge to be a musical work of art sure get me excited. I have a real treat in store for you (and me too!): This preview of the Miyabi Standard is the kick-off for the first review of a series of reviews that will survey the Miyabi Standard, the Miyabi 47 and the Miyabi Custom moving coil phonograph cartridges."  - JEFF DAY 


At least one manufacturer of today's High-End LOMC inspired by Miyabi.

This is FUUGA ! HAS ANYONE TRIED IT ? More about it here


Beyond Miyabi... Revival of the Miyabi cartridges spirit...

The Fuuga’s MC’s development is the proud creation of long time Takeda San friend Osamu Nagao who was also Miyabi’s exclusive dealer in Japan for years. It took more then three years of very demanding R&D to develop a cartridge that would follow the heritage of great artisan. With the the expertise and partnership of Haruo Takeda completely new and ultra refined cartridge was born.

Fuuga implements extremely strong neodymium magnet and multi layered Titanium, which is extremely expensive and difficult to produce. Especially for such sensitive and miniature device.

“Miyabi” (雅) means “elegance” in Japanese. To honor the legacy of “Miyabi”, Nagao named it “Fuuga” (風雅), which means “elegance with flair”.




@bukanona, great info, thanks! I took another look at my KC-200 and there's no doubt in my mind it's boron. So it must be a retipping job! But at least it's expertly done and it sounds fantastic, so I'm not heartbroken.

It seems I did guess right about the 0.35mV output. So Takeda must have made some changes for Krell compared to his other creations for Miyabi and Levinson, which are all around 0,24mV. It would still be interesting to find out if this was a deliberate attempt to 'tailor' the sound to whatever d'Agostino might have requested. I suppose we'll never know.

@bukanova thanks for the link ! Amazing, never heard about it before. 
Krell KC200 was new model above the KC100, released in 1989.
KC200 had Sapphire cantilever as standard ( not Boron ).
edgewear check this link
https://imged.com/krell-kc-200-madrigal-carnegie-2-phono-carts-review-stereophile-689-4988150.html
IMO as KC200 was special order item, it should be with ruby or sapphire cantilever (technically/sound wise it’s the same)


I also own Mark Levinson MLC-1, which does have the aluminum cantilever and Ogura PA stylus. It has 0.24 mV output and 4 ohm internal impedance, very similar to the specs of the MCA. I have seen identical specs for the Cello and Red Rose models as well as for Miyabi Standard.

I wish to know as much as possible about all Miyabi incarnations. Here is what i know about my two different samples. Miyabi MCA is virtually unknown, no reviews about this cartridge. 

Similar specs but slightly different in frequency response, compliance, cartridge impedance, chose if stylus profile, recommended tracking force, cartridge own weight.


******Specs miyabi MCA:
Output Voltage 0.25mV (3.54cm/sec., 1KHz)
Frequency Response 10Hz - 50KHz
Tracking Force Range 1.5 - 2.0 grams
Optimum Tracking Force 1.8 grams
Dynamic Compliance 8.5 x 10-6 cm/dyne (Vertical & Lateral)
Internal Impedance 4.0 ohms (Pure Resistance)
Stylus: Special Elliptical (PH Semi Line Contact)
Cantilever: Step-Tapered System
Weight 8.5 grams

******Specs of Miyabi Standard:
Output Voltage 0.2mV
Frequency Response 20Hz - 40KHz
Tracking Force Range 1.5 - 2.0 grams
Optimum Tracking Force 2 grams
Dynamic Compliance 9 x 10-6 cm/dyne (Vertical & Lateral)
Internal Impedance 2 ohms
Stylus: Line contact
Cantilever: Special aluminum alloy (read Takeda’s secret)
Weight 13.5 grams


The magnets material is Alnico and the coils are copper.


Miyabi Standard review by Jaff Day (6 Moons)
Miyabi Standard review by Jack Roberts
Miyabi 47 review by Jack Roberts
Miyabi 47 review by Art Dudley (R.I.P.)

I also own Mark Levinson MLC-1, which does have the aluminum cantilever and Ogura PA stylus. It has 0.24 mV output and 4 ohm internal impedance, very similar to the specs of the MCA. I have seen identical specs for the Cello and Red Rose models as well as for Miyabi Standard. But the KC-200 appears to have a higher output than the MLC-1, at least subjectively. I would estimate around 0.35 mV.

Of course this output difference has nothing to do with the choice of cantilever material, but it would suggest that for whatever reason Takeda altered some design aspects for the KC-200. In terms of dynamics jump and bass slam it sounds almost like an Ikeda 9 Rex. In a way it reminds me of the sound of big Krell amps from the 90’s. Coincidence? It would be fascinating to hear the true story from Dan himself.



No Boron cantilever on Takeda cartridges i’m afraid :(
Always his special aluminum as far as i know

The stylus is different at least on one model and it’s called PH Semi Line Contact or "Special Elliptical" in the original manual:



Specs of Miyabi MCA:

Output Voltage 0.25mV (3.54cm/sec., 1KHz)
Frequency Response 10Hz - 50KHz
Tracking Force Range 1.5 - 2.0 grams
Optimum Tracking Force 1.8 grams
Dynamic Compliance 8.5 x 10-6 cm/dyne (Vertical & Lateral)
Internal Impedance 4.0 ohms (Pure Resistance)
Stylus: Special Elliptical (PH Semi Line Contact)
Cantilever: Step-Tapered System
Weight 8.5 grams