Just about to pull the trigger on Pontus 15th ...

@ozzy62 @mattw73 @klipscher @curiousjim @jastralfu @2psyop

Does the high output impedance of 1,250 ohms from the Denafrips DAC ever bother you in terms of impedance matching? The Harmony DAC has an identical measurement, but the µDAC brings it down to 80 ohms. I have a preamp with an input impedance rated at only 10k so I am concerned about the matching.  Thx.

@lanx0003 I wasn't aware of the Denafrips output Z but that is indeed pretty high for a dac, source, of even most modern tube preamps. 

I only received the unit a couple days ago on Monday..which was quick considering I received an email it was being shipped from China at midnight on Thursday. But since I've been concentrating on "breaking in" the Pontus I haven't given it the rounds on multiple preamps I own. I initially plugged the Pontus into this old Assemblage L1 one tube preamp that's been upgraded to the gills with high end parts & bypass caps thru in thru. I just had to mention this unknown preamp because I find it stupid good & it makes me question some more expensive pre's I have. But anyway, I haven't a clue of any of its specs. I only used it for maybe an hour & didn't notice any frequency, noise, or other issues I've encountered with impedance mismatches in the past. 

I've been running the Pontus with an Icon Audio LA4 MKiii Sig tube pre ever since; as I was thinking this is the preamp I'll be trying to pair long term. The LA4's input Z is spec'ed at "Greater than 50k ohms".  I've been inside this preamp but didn't take notice to what's going on after the input jacks or volume pot reading. I haven't detected any issues of mismatch but I've been focusing on other things when listening to the 15th. I also have only used the single ended outputs on the Pontus. 

I honestly don't think I've ever experienced a mismatch between a source or dac & preamp before. I've definitely encountered it between preamps & amps in the past. I've actually seen a YouTube reviewer & a commentor somewhere else complain that the Pontus was kinda bright...lacking some bass. Makes me wonder if they were maybe having mismatch issues? 

I do have some other issues with this dac I can complain about & share. First off the unit has 3 feet..which are kinda rough & definitely able to scratch things due to this Dac's hefty weight. She is solid. The dac comes with these little rubber pads to push into the bottom of the feet. My pads don't stay in..2 of them fall out whenever I lift the dac to move it. Not an issue when it gets to its final resting place. But I guarantee they will fall off & get lost at some point..pretty crappy for a $2k device. 

This next issue is a little bigger & one I haven't gone to the next step to fix. The RCA outputs on the rear. None of my regular sized RCA cables will push all the way in for a proper fit. It just won't push in all the way like something is blocking it..the grounding clasps of the connectors is only getting maybe a quarter way on. I found some Blue Jeans connects I had from back in the day. Ones I never really liked as the have the long connectors/longer cinch with a shorter pin. So the rca connectors on their Pontus are not going to work for me. I'm going to have to address this with Frips people. Another pain in the ass & unacceptable for a $2k device. I've only experienced this RCA jack issue once before..with a Chinese manufactured brand. I had to replace the jacks..the plastic inside the jacks weren't evenly bored out. Lame. 

My 3rd issue is a sound quality one..though this is with the rca coaxial input. Now I use a Neotech NEVD-2001 cable. Not overly expensive but I'll just say that after experimenting with digital cables cheaper & more expensive I highly recommend this Neotech model. It's proper good. You can buy the cable itself from a couple different sellers but the Neotech manufactured cable comes with some impressive connectors. I wish I could find them for DIY cables. 

Also I've only used the Pontus with a streamer & it's coaxial input. I've tried probably 12 different streamers over the last couple years under the $1600 mark..looking for a budget standout. The Zen Stream & Primare Prisma NP5 are the 2 I've held onto. I've only used the Zen Stream with the Pontus. I have 3 12v power supplies..an Sbooster, IFI Elite, Super Farad 3. Farad sounds the best with the Zen but I use it elsewhere now so I've settled with the IFI PS with the ZEN. 

Granted this dac hasn't broken in. But with coaxial input I'm not impressed. Veiled & dark. Some decent depth & stage but overall sound is meh. I chalked it up to break in period. But this morning I figured I would tried a USB cable. Completely different dac. The blanket was lifted. Everything from top to bottom, inside & out is better. Clarity & high frequencies. Dac at least is showing some good promise. Now I've never had issues using the coaxial on the Zen Stream in the past & honestly it's my output of choice on it. But I will try the Prisma later. I think it sounds better anyway but I also know that the coaxial output on the Prisma is a little hotter. I've had to dial back the input on it with my pro audio dac. So maybe the Denafrips just needs more juice going into it's coaxial. But so far the coaxial & USB input seems like 2 different dacs. 

The USB allows the dac to use its superior clocks if I understand things correctly. But I don't recall the Zen ever sounding that bad with other dacs & coaxial connection. It could be this "break in" that I've been warned of..& that I shouldn't even critically comment on this dac til at least a couple weeks of heavy usage. USB sounds good. But I'll comment more in a couple weeks if interested. I need to see about these RCA jacks. I'll take a closer look at it when I get a chance..pop the top on this joker & see what's doin'. If I keep this thing long term I'll probably invest in a streamer with i2S output instead of a DDC. I'll have to see how this plays out. 

@mattw73 Thank you for sharing. If your preamp has an output impedance of 50k ohms, it should not have any matching issues with the Denafrips DAC, whether using RCA (625 ohms) or XLR (1250 ohms). I was referring to my own preamp, which has only a 10k ohm output impedance and might have some issues since the ratio is less than 10. I was surprised to hear that the RCA input of the Pontus does not perform well.

@lanx0003 yeah I understood your question & concerns but I ended up babbling on about my situation. My experience with impedance matching has only been with preamps & amps as far as close calls & definite issues from mismatches. I have a 10k input & a 12k input amps. I've been as close as an 8x's difference between the 2 & didn't notice any meaningful issues. I've had preamps in that 5k range & probably higher depending on frequency where noise & brightness occurs. Stuff like my old PAS preamps caused issues with all my modern day solid state amp. 

I've run my MTK kit preamp which can be as High as 1800ohms sound quite nice with my 10k amp. Not exactly the same situation between dac & preamp though. Maybe someone else will chime in with something similar to your exact question. 

Wow, no apparent issue from 10k to 12k! Maybe I, along with many others, have been overly concerned. But here’s my experience: I used a preamp with a 5k output impedance into an amp with a 20k input impedance, and the sound felt restrained. However, this particular preamp was well received by some, if not the majority. I tend to attribute this to a matching issue.

I had been eyeing Denafrips for a long time, but its high output impedance was always a hurdle that kept me from pulling the trigger. Then the Harmony DAC had the same design—until this micro DAC came along, seemingly designed to address matching concerns. I don’t know. I guess I’ll never know until I try, right?