Jazz for aficionados
Actually Rok, the Youtube link of Alfredo Rodiguez that I posted above perfectly illustrates what I am talking about. The rhythmic structure is clearly rooted in "clave" (Africa), the form of the composition and the improvisation around it is clearly rooted in European (Spanish) tradition, and the harmonic flavor of the piece is derived primarily from the use of the harmonic minor scale (Arab). A perfect hybrid: Latin stuff. Regards. |
Today's Playlist: Laughin' to keep from Cryin' Lester Young, Roy Eldridge, Harry 'sweets' Edison No fireworks, just the best Jazz ballard playing possible. Lester Young is one of the true Giants of the music. Even plays Clarinet on a few tracks. And how can Eldridge and Edison be on the same record? Amazing! Good sound. 1958 / 2000. Stormy Monday Lou Rawls and Les McCann Good song selection and backup. A young Rawls. He will get better later, and make these songs his own! Zodiac Suite Mary Lou Williams - piano Short pieces named after the signs of the zodiac. Some alternate takes. Sound not the best. Piano does not sound like it's in tune. Could be just the recording. Recorded in 1945. Smithsonian / Folkways. Did not make a great impression on me. The professional critics loved it. Bernard Purdie's Soul to Jazz with Eddie Harris, the Brecker Brothers and the WDR Big Band The song lineup would lead one to assume this would be one of the best CDs ever. Includes everything from 'Senor Blues' to 'When a Man Loves a Woman'. All 13 tracks mega hits in their own right. The problem is, the WDR big band is the, Westdeutscher Rundfunk big band. I know they can play, all the radio bands can, they just can't play Jazz. Should stick with Strauss. Prudie is a drummer and has some resume, played with Aretha and Miles. But the American talent is let down by the arrangements and the band. The producers are named Wolfgang and Siegfried, that should have been a red flag. Very nice album art and foldout. I have had this several years and never play it. Just reminded myself why. Cheers |
If I misunderstood the tenor of your comment, my apology. But concise and precise you were not. But, I think you are missing the point, and it appears we do have a disagreement. The point is that you can't take the other influences out of the equation any more than you can take the African influence out, and your comments suggest that the African influence is more important than the others; it is not. ****Take away the African component of all Latin Jazz and what is left?**** Ok, take away the Spanish, and Arab components and what is left? Drumming? I hope we can agree that Latin music is much more than that. This is all well documented in musicological circles; no mystery at all. Regards. |
There YOU go again misunderstanding my post. By use of the word 'stuff', I was speaking of all latin Jazz. This is a JAZZ thread. On ocassion I have said 'all the Blue Note stuff'. Don't be so quick to pounce! I try to be concise and precise. Take away the African component of all Latin Jazz and what is left? Don't say Indian and spanish. Andean music? I am sure they have some form of folk music. if fact I used to see them play on the streets of Nurnberg, Germany for donations. The Germans found them exotic. The difference is, some music travels and conquers the world, and some never leaves the village. We have no disagreement, you just did not think about it the correct way. Cheers |
There you go again, Rok. Why make a provocative comment that not only is factually incorrect in it's omissions, but seems to diminish the validity of "all the so-called latin stuff"? Your comment shortchanges the equally important influences of European (Spanish), Arab, and in the case of Peru, Andean musics. Sure, the African influence is obvious in the rhythmic structure of Latin music, but there is a whole lot more going on in it than that. You might want to reconsider your assertion. |
Hi Chazro, I mentioned More and Aragon only because they relate to Buena Vista SC, the reason the discussion turned to Cuban music of that period; which was already a departure from the OP's theme. I completely agree there is a tremendous amount of great modern Cuban music, and yes I listen to all of it including the artists you mention. I would also add to your great list: Gonzalo Rubalcaba, Irakere, Chucho Valdez, and Alfredo RodrÃguez, one of the young Cuban rising stars: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=csM_M-j3UNE Something fun from one on your list, Dafnis Prieto a genius percussionist if there ever was one: http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=plpp&v=YXpxsXC4Tdw |
Chazro, with the exception of Paquito, whose more into jazz, the other Cuban musicians play very beautiful Cuban music. They have followed a historic lineage, and they've done it very well. That's not to say they're imitating the past, but improvising on it, and incorporating new music of their own. That new music is still distinctly Cuban. This is not a matter of "old versus new", but what sounds beautiful and sensual according to my musical sensibilities. Those are two traits the new musicians retained, as they must for authentic Cuban music. I liked them very much, and they will be added to my collection. Enjoy the music. |
Rok, we're discovering the same thing at the same time, and it's so absurd. Everything with an African origin is changed to something else. If you recall the soundtracks to old movies with a Brazilian or Mexican settings, that was "Afro Cuban music". Some people have a "photographic" memory, I have a "phonographic" memory. I recall when I was in my early teens, seeing a movie titled "In Brazil" with Glen Ford, and there were several dance scenes, and the music was the same as what I heard on this CD titled "Cuban All stars", that's what I'm talking about. They never gave the people who created the music credit for it. Enjoy the music. |
Frogman, asere molina! I thought I was the only hispanic (PR) hangin' around here! Well, this opens up a WHOLE new area for exploration!;) Latin Jazz is my favorite genre and IMO Cuba always was, and remains, the primary source for cutting edge musica latino! As with regular Jazz, it frustrates me that the usual emphasis and focus always seems to be music from the past or music that sounds like it was recorded in the past. Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing but love and admiration for the old stuff, it's just that there's so much new music to be discovered and enjoyed. I guess it's harder these days to give unheard and unknown artists a shot. So I'm curious, do you listen to contemporary Cuban music? This weekend I was listening to (amongst other things): Orlando 'Maraca' Valle & his Latin Jazz All-Stars - Live from Havana, German Velasco & Jorge Reyes - Live from Cuba, Interactivo (spectacular group!) - Cubanos Por El Mundo, Manuel Valera (grammy nominated record) - The New Cuban Express. How about Timba? Manolito Simonet Y Su Trabuco, Tiempo Libre, jeez I could just go on and on....Howzabout Dafnis Prieto, Cubanisimo, Paquito D'Rivera, NG La Banda....like I said, I could go on but I guess it's time to return this thread to it's regularly scheduled programming!!;) |
Cuban music is the greatest Latin American music of all. For many years I've been into Brazilian music, and now I realize Cuba influenced Brazil and all the rest of the Latin American musicians. After listening to this CD of Cuban music, my memory was vaguely flooded with music from old movies portraying something or another in Brazil, Mexico, or elsewhere in Latin America, but they always used "Cuban music" and never gave them credit. Could it have anything to do with the fact that so many Cuban musicians were "Black". Does anybody remember "Ricky Ricardo" with his Cuban band? I rest my case. Enjoy the music. |
Thanks. I have always had a soft spot for that music; I am Cuban, after all. If you don't know these already, check out the music of Beny More, and Orquesta Aragon; wonderful stuff. There is a great compilation "The Very Best Of Beny More" that is worth having. Orquesta Aragon's "Cuban Originals" is also excellent with very good sound. Keep in mind that the new and current Orquesta Aragon has a different sound altogether. Enjoy. |
Frogman, I must compliment you on your knowledge of Cuban music. I have some Afro Cuban music that's classified under the different styles. Amor Verdadero, guajira-son; Alto Songo, son montuno; Habana Del Este, danzonete-cha; A Toda Cuba Le Gusta, son; Fiesta de la Rumba, guaguanco; lOS Sitio Asere, guaguanco-son; Elube Chango, son afro. While similar to other Latin music, it has so much more fire. If I could, I would get up and dance. The title of this CD is "Afro Cuban All Stars" |
Foster_9, I compared two versions of "Senor Blues", one on CD from the 56 LP "Six Pieces of Silver" and the "You tube" you're speaking of. While some of the musicians are different, there is only one "gigantic" difference, and that is Horace's solo in the middle. As Miles liked to say "He got all up into the music". Horace went up one side, down the other side, and then through the middle of that solo. He hit some funky notes and it got good to him, so he hit some more. When something like that occurs, it's one of a kind and can never be duplicated, good luck on getting it. Enjoy the music. |
There is a specific reason why I haven't gone into records as opposed to CD's. In my opinion, halfway is a waste of money, and all the way is very expensive. "All the way" according to me, is a class "B" rig as rated by Stereophile including a Class "B" cartridge. Class "C" is more or less what you had before CD, and when compared to CD that was nothing special. In my opinion, this is a case of "run with the big dogs, or stay at home". The only reason I've expressed this is because while records and CD's are a very important part of our lives, I don't want any one to waste money. Now that I've expressed my opinion, all recommendations in regard to outstanding analogue are more than welcome, and "Analogue Productions" seem to be doing things the way they should be done. Enjoy the music. |
Quite a few of the ones already mentioned have been reissued by AP including Blue Train, Side by Side, Blues And T A T, Moaning, and others. Do a cross check and you will find more. A couple more personal favorites on AP: Joe Henderson "Page One" Winton Kelly "Smoking At The Blue Note" Dexter Gordon "Dexter Gordon" Gil Evans "Out Of The Cool" |
Foster_9, I know the version you're speaking of, and I do believe that was one of a kind. Unlike Miles, and Monk who recorded many different versions of the same tune, not so for "Senior Blues" and Horace Silver. The version you're speaking of was far and above any "Senior Blues" I've ever heard. If you have any luck on obtaining it, let us know. |
For anybody that hasn't heard/seen this, per Foster 9's recommendation. Horace Silver is on fire. He actually quotes Prokofiev around 7:48; these guys listened to and were influenced by all types of great music. http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=dUAu_3R0VPI&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DdUAu_3R0VPI |
Not much to add here, but I will say you should listen to "Paris Blues," a live cd by Horace Silver. Horace and the whole show has a dignified feel to it, just lovely jazz. There are so many great artists in jazz history. I have a question. Did he record a live version of "Senor Blues" on any of his albums? I've said it here before, I greatly love the Youtube video: - "Señor Blues (Horace Silver, Blue Mitchell & Junior Cook)" |
I am so nutty, that I buy some CDs that I know I won't like NOW, but maybe I will in the future. Also, if it's considered a great or landmark recording, I want to have it. Same with Classical. So one day, if my theory holds, I will be jamming to Coleman and Dolphy etc.... Musical taste does change over time. Cheers |
I had no idea so many people would agree on Roland Kirk, he's been one of my favorites for ages. Lambert, Hendricks and Ross, or Lambert Hendricks and Bavan are both very good and naturally they sound similar, except the "Bavan" recordings are newer. "Ain't Misbehavin" was one of the most enjoyable plays I've ever seen, although it's not on my playlist; but I bet you knew that Rok. Enjoy the music. |
Agree on all points on Mr. Kirk. Adventurous, but always musical and grounded in gospel and blues. Watch out though. It starts with a little Rahsaan, and next thing you know, your listening to Anthony Braxton and your hooked. Rokid2, I have seen that recording of Fats Waller, but had a Hank Jones recording called " Ain't Misbehavin " which, I would highly recommend , and past on it. I will go ahead and get it next time I see it. Doesn't Hank Jones play on that original Broadway cast recording? |
Today's recommendations: Ain't Misbehavin' Original Broadway Cast Recording The Music of Thomas 'Fats' Waller Wonderful and Funny. The singers and the band are almost as one. very tight! Waller is one of the most prolific Jazz composers ever. You may be surprised at some of his songs. Also a great Pianist. He was very funny, so I don't think he is taken 'serious' today. What with all the 'cerebral' stuff out there now. This stage performance was not video taped, so no DVD. That is criminal. 2CD set. Nell Carter leads a great cast. Roland Kirk -- Domino Surprisingly (to me), very good. Not only can he play several instruments, but plays them very well and all at the same time. '3-in-1 without the oil' is just great. Herbie Hancock, Andrew Hill, Wynton kelly and Roy Haynes provide support. Great feel-good music. I will have to get some more Kirk. Lambert, Hendricks & Ross -- Sing A Song of Basie Precursors of groups like Manhattan Transfer, but a little more Jazzy. Backed here by the Basie Band Rhythm section. When it comes to Jazz singers, the backing group is EVERTHING. 'Everyday' and 'Cloudburst' are the highlights. 'Going to Chicago' is not included. :( Nice light fare. An interesting photo inside the CD case. LH&R gathered around what looks like a kid's toy record player, listening to music on LP. Critical listening. I feel better about my YORX now. Cheers |
Jafant, Another classic from 1959 Ornette Coleman- Change of the Century Ornette on sax, the master Don Cherry on trumpet, Charlie Haden on bass, and Billy Higgins on the drums. I say, there is no single way to play Jazz. Some of the comments made about my music make me realize though that modern jazz, once so daring and revolutionary, has become in many respects, a rather settled and conventional thing. The members of my group and I are attempting a breakthrough to a new, freer conception of jazz, one that departs from all that is "standard" and cliche' in modern jazz. Ornette Colman |
One I should have put in my earlier list is the Charlie Byrd Quintet "Du Hot Club De Concord" from 1995 on the Concord label. I just listened to it for the first time in ages. I had forgotten what a terrific CD this is. It's going back on my frequent play list! With a decided Latin flavor, the tunes are mostly reinterpreted standards, but there are also a few Charlie Byrd originals which are exceptional compositions in and of themselves. The five musicians are Charlie Byrd - guitar, Johnny Frigo - violin, Hendrik Meurkens - harmonica, Frank Vignola - rhythm guitar, and Michael Moore - bass. I've never been a harmonica fan, but I have to say the harmonica on this CD is a revelation. Also, the sonic quality of the recordings is top drawer. |
Today's CD is "Bean Bags", featuring Milt Jackson and Coleman Hawkins, with Tommy Flanagan, piano; Kenny Burrell, guitar; Eddie Jones, bass; Connie Kay, drums. As "aficionado's" know, "Beans" is Coleman Hawkins, and "Bags" is Milt Jackson; hence the title of the album. "Close Your Eyes" is the first cut. Tommy Flanagan's piano opens it with the melody, and next we have interplay between "Beans" deep tenor sax and "Bags" ringing vibes. The notes from those vibes just hang in the air ringing forever, that's why I can tell his vibes from any other vibes. Him and "Beans" deep burley tenor have back and forth interplay, communicating in that musical language that we can only enjoy and admire. Now, the notes from Kenny Burrell's resonant guitar are leaping out of the left channel, while Tommy Flanagan is "compin" on piano in the right channel with Eddie Jones keeping a steady bass beat in the center. All the while Connie Kay is doing that cool thing with the brushes that he does so well, I'm in heaven. "Sandra's Blues" is my favorite on this CD. Music can tell stories, and communicate emotions, like no words can even come close to, but I'll try. Sandra is in that deep blue funk which only time can heal. There is nothing anyone can do about the series of tragic events that put her in this state of mind, but "Bean" and the boys are doing their best to tell her story, and soothe Sandra's aching heart with their music. We get to listen to "Sandra's Blues". Enjoy the music. |
Frogman: Well done. Thanks for the info. Nice to see that your expertise extends beyond strands of metal. Notice, I did not use the 'W' word. :) Monk and Coltrane at carnegie Hall. Great music, listening to it now. It also has a very good booklet with pictures and other details. I love the details. The recording is indeed very good. I wonder why so much of the 50's era Jazz sounds so good. A Classical recording from that same era would more than likely sound like crap. Anyone with the answer? Did you notice the poster in the booklet announcing the concert. It says: Date and Time and lists as performers, Billie Holiday, Dizzy Gilliespie, Ray Charles, Chet Baker with Zoot Sims, Monk and Coltrane, and Sonny Rollins. The price is: $2,$3,$3.50 and $3.95. (tax exempt contributions) Amazing!! Latest listen. Side by Side -- Duke Ellington and Johnny Hodges Another very good recording. Great music also. A rare chance to hear the Duke play extended solos on piano. The liner notes on this cd have to be read using a microscope. Oh how I long for the days of the LP jacket. I wish that turntable that read LPs with a laser had worked out. That would been the perfect solution. Nice big art and notes. Jafant: The entire decade was a golden era. I guess all things follow a predictable tracjectory. I feel we are now on the downward slope. :( We can be glad we are living during this time. At least as far as music is concerned. This thread has caused me to really explore my collection. Cheers |
A few thoughts on the Buena Vista sound. If one uses as criteria two of Jazz's essential ingredients,improvisation and roots in African music,it is clearly "jazz"' as Rok points out. But the music heard on most of BVSC's recordings is actually closer to the "guajira" and "son" styles; the "country-music" of Cuba. The repetitive vocal style is the influence of the chants of the music that the West African slaves brought to the mix. It predates the Cubano-bop that came a decade or two later. |
Rok2id - Glad you concur on these selections. Not all main stream, but great jazz. I only have Kid Ory on vinyl, so cannot speak to the CDs. But, try 1 or 2 just to see the style. I doubt any of them are up to current recording quality standards but it is worth it anyway. Great, old style jazz. Incidentally, one thing I like about Sonny Rollins Without a Song was the trombone, which was played by his nephew. It was recorded the weekend after 9/11 in Boston. The recording was done from the audience so is not great, but still pretty good. I played the sax but never came close to these guys, even when they were playing a plastic sax :) As the PGA logo goes, these guys are good. |
Just as I was about to anoint Lee Morgan King of Jazz trumpet, I put 'Sketches of Spain' by Miles Davis in the player. Order is now restored. I sat there mesmerized. One of Miles' Best ever. Mingus at Antibes I almost called 911. These guys are on fire. I don't think even they could do it again. The perfect storm. Now, this is improvised music at the highest level. They were really out there, BUT they always had both feet firmly planted in the delta. One foot in a Juke Joint, and the other in a Baptist church! That's the difference between this improvising and this modern free Jazz stuff. The current stuff sounds sterile in comparison. Ain't got it? Git It! Cheers |
O-10: I mentioned Carmen several threads ago. I have 5 or 6 of her CDs. One with duets with Betty Carter. Great voice. What are her somecomings? Not a thing!! Except having the same profession as Ella, Billie and Sarah. :( I have a CD of her's entitled 'Carmen Sings Monk'. Most folks can't even play Monk (including his band) and she SINGS him. She is great on the Monk CD. Top 5 for that alone. :) All the divas are just treasures. I love them all. Dtc: I have most of what you listed. All must haves. I have a few of Kid Ory waiting in the Amazon 'save for later' file. I was concerned about the sound quality, But I'll take your word for it. Not having Ory, is almost like not having Armstrong! Charlie Parker played a borrowed plastic sax on the Massey Hall CD. hahahahaha Cheers |
A lot lot of the obvious ones have been mentioned, but I want to give a shout out for some of those Sonny Rollins Way Out West, Saxophone Colossus, Tenor Madness Bill Evans Waltz for Debbie, Sunday at the Village Vanguard John Coltrane Ballads Miles Davis Kind of Blue (Kind of a Given) and some less obvious ones The Poll Winners Shelley Manne, Ray Brown, Barney Kesel Paul Motion I Have A Room Above Her Sonny Rollins Without a Song Jelly Roll Morton Birth of the Hot - Red Hot Peppers Art Pepper + Eleven Thelonious Monk with John Coltrane at Carnegie Hall Kid Ory Anything you can find - I only have vinyl Art Blakey The Jazz Messengers Oscar Petterson Night Train ( and so many more) Jazz at Massey Hall Bud Powell, Dizzie Gillespie, Charlie Parker, Max Roach |
Learsfool, "Blue Train" is my number one train, along with my 101 train. I like your list, and most of those CD's are in my collection. Frogman, New York Voices do a real nice vocal of "Stolen Moments" from "Blues And The Abstract Truth". I go to sleep on "Clifford Brown With Strings", and dream about Nancy Wilson With Cannonball Adderly. Anything on your list that I don't have, I will certainly give it a listen. Rok, Dee Dee Bridgewater is truly smokin on that CD, her voice becomes another jazz musical instrument. Gz3827, "Prime Cuts" is a CD that had been hiding in my collection until just recently, it's fantastic. Acman3, New Tijuana Moods is an old favorite of mine. I've been a Mingus fan since "Mingus Ah Um". I was attracted to the album cover. Pnmeyer, I have 5 of the CD's on your list, and it's for sure I'll give the ones I don't have a listen. Enjoy the music. |
I consider the Pat Metheney thingy to be mood music or sound effect music. Sounds like a lot of European Pop did back in the day. It also reminded me of the blue alien singer on the space ship in the movie 'the fifth element'. No offense, I thought she / it was great. Wes was playing Jazz. They even DRESSED as if they were Jazz players. Ever notice how real Jazz players wear suit and tie. They do that because it shows respect for the music. Pat and his type don't do it because they don't respect the music. Because they may not understand the music. Like I have said many times, they think Jazz is whatever they want it to be. I wish I could bang tin cans together, call it my First symphony and have it sold in stores right next to Mozart and company. It just don't work like that! Metheney, good sound? Yes. Jazz? No. Of corse let me quickly add, IMHO. Don't wanna come under elitists gasbag attack. :) Cheers |
I appreciate everyone's effort to stick within the confines of "classic jazz". I've been down this road before, and the conversation falls apart as soon as we get outside of well known parameters. I consider this conversation highly beneficial when something new is added to my rotating play list, it's almost like an equipment upgrade. Believe it or not, occasionally someone introduces me to a new artist within the confines of "classic jazz"; for example I had never heard of "Ahmed Abdul-Malik, who played jazz double bass and oud. There are still new discoveries to be made within these parameters, and there is always music by your favorite old artists that you haven't heard. I know I'm going to be doing my best to help broaden your collection. Enjoy the music. |
Wolf_garcia: "a tawdry sax that leads to unwanted pregnancies" proves the boys ain't shooting blanks. Please list some of the bands that you have recorded and a blog or website where we can purchase the music. For baritone sax Gerry Mulligan Sextet "Legends Live" is a concert recorded in Germany that includes Dave Samuels (vibes), Thomas Fay (piano), Mike Santiago( guitar), George Duvivier (bass), and Bobby Rosengarden (drum). All musicians hand picked by Gerry for the show recorded in 1977. Makes one feel that your're in the club. |
