(1) Dizzy Gillespie and his Orchestra -- AFRO
(2) The Original Mambo Kings -- An Introduction to Afro-Cubop
Most of the music on the Mambo Cd is by Machito and his Orchestra. At first I did not realize these two Cds have common music. Half of the Dizzy disc appears on the Mambo Kings disc, which is a complilation. Charlie Parker and Mario Bauza also appear on the Mambo CD.
Both are very good examples of what is called 'afro-cubop.'
I thought the Dizzy Cd was exceptional! We get so wrapped in these younger guys, we tend to forget why Dizzy is one of the true GIANTS of Jazz. I must listen to him more often. Just great trumpet playing. Gillespie seems to have a great affinity for latin music.
There is a lot of brass on both CDs, the difference is, on the Dizzy Cd, the brass is Dizzy! I think the brass was a little too much on some of the Machito cuts.
(3) Erroll Garner -- Concert By The Sea.
Great playing by a man who cannot read music. That's amazing. Mostly standards, but done very well and fresh sounding. Live recording with great ambience. Some hiss on the CD, but not a distraction. I understand this is one of the best selling Jazz records of all time! He appears with a trio. The sort of performance that makes you wish you were there.
Cheers |
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"Jazz is not dead it just smells funny",No! Let's not forget that Jazz music is still very much alive,and it is not true that it just smells funny. but to make sure that it stays that way, we do have to keep updating our listening experiences.Let's not forget the old Masters but encourage new Masters as well. Check out these three audiophile albums on the small dutch label Sound Liaison. Carmen Gomes inc. 'Torn'..best Blues ballad album ever. Poul Berner Band 'Road to Memphis'.. beautifully told Elvis Presley "saga" and Carmen Gomes inc. 'Thousand Shades of Blue'..intimacy, the band is so well recorded that you can practically reach out and touch them,and there's an absolutely haunting version of Bruce Springsteen's I'm on Fire. http://www.soundliaison.com |
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Why is everyone trying to bury Jazz? Sure a lot of the greats have passed on, but the same can be said of classical. And they have been dead for centuries!
I would suggest that the 'new masters' get a little more creative. They seem to be more intent on changing Jazz than playing it.
The Cds you recommended were great! Outstanding recordings. But, I did not think the music was Jazz or blues. I thought it was all sort of, Baez / Saint Marie- ish. Which is not a bad thing. The problem is, they will not attract the Jazz / Blues crowd.
for example, listen to 'don't let me be misunderstood', then listen to Nina Simone do it.
same with 'the thrill is gone' listen to B.B. King
'I just wanna make love to you' -- try Etta James.
A person would not think the tunes are from the same genre.
Supporting new Jazz artist is important, but they have a responsibility, to us the customers / fans, to play Jazz.
Cheers |
Agree we should be listening to our current crop of Jazz artists, not just the greats that have passed on. I'll start by throwing out a few suggestions. I have been listening a lot to Eric Alexander lately. Nice sounding tenor sax player, who has recorded some nice stuff on the Venus label. Roy Hargrove is someone I like a lot. Just got Charles Lloyd's new CD, Hagar's Song. He has a lot of great albums. Enrico Rava has some very interesting stuff. |
Hank Garland, Jazz Winds from a Different Direction. The 1st jazz album (1961) by a Nashville session guitarist (patsy cline, everly bros, etc) recorded in Nashville w/a 17 yr old Gary Burton, Joe Morello & Joe Benjamin. A tragic life story but the incredible music lives on Forever. |
One of my favorite jazz recordings is the album "Let My Children Hear Music" by Charles Mingus. It is a musiczal oddysey with compositions that shift moods and take you places that never get tiring. Sheer genius. |
People have been saying Jazz was dead since that delinquent Benny Goodman came along. Then it was really dead when Bird and those crazy boppers started going nuts. Then Coltrane planted jazz six feet under?Jazz is dead in the water? It just mutates to the next phase, but it will not sound the same as it did, until the keepers of tradition try to drag it back to where they want it to stay. Real Jazz.
Look where Lee Morgan had progressed to at the time of his death. He wasn't playing straight ahead soul jazz, but was challenging and stretching in new directions. His music on "Live at the Lighthouse" would be to radical for some on this forum to even be called Jazz. Sound familiar? Jazz will always move forward and challenge the artist and the listener. Btw, some these innovations will flop and some will be wonderful. I hear composers today and I think, that sounds like where Mingus or Monk would be today.
Sorry for the rant, but it strikes a nerve. |
Acman3, don't be sorry for the rant; put up or shut up. Now that we have "You tube", play like we're from Missouri and show us.
Enjoy the mmusic. |
Ref: Lee Morgan, 'Live at the Lighthouse'. I don't have it, but I listened to a little online. I have no problem with it.
He evolved or was trying to evolved. It was sort of different, but still good. But, I guess Coltrane gets everyone in the end.
There is a difference from an established Jazz player evolving and someone right out of the gate making strange nosies.
It's now available from 'these sellers' for a few hundred.
Cheers |
Based on someone's recommendation in this thread to consider Jimmy Giuffre,I just got the album "Jimmy Giuffre 3, 1961", 180 gram vinyl reissue by ECM, which combines the "Fusion" and "Thesis" albums both recorded in 1961 on the Verve label. Personnel was Jimmy Giuffre on clarinet, Paul Bley on piano and Steve Swallow on bass. Some of the songs, including Ictus, were composed by Bley's then -wife, Carla Bley. Amazing stuff! I am the first to admit I am not fond of most free verse stuff. However, this is accessible, at times very melodic and very beautiful sounding. A lot of use of space. The recording is first rate. It also is available on CD. Thanks for the recommendation. |
Yesterday I received The Three Sounds, 'Eight Classic Albums'.
I had wondered if the Eight Classic Albums sets were a good deal. If this set is any indication, they are a great deal.
I have listened to two, and the sound quality seems to be equal to that, of the one Three Sounds Blue Note CD I have.
Documentation is OK. The overall package looks good. Two albums on each of the 4 CDs.
This is a good way to get a lot of music from an artist you might like, but don't feel you need the individual Cds.
Cheers |
Rok, if the sound is good, I'm going to buy it. |
Music has to change, art has to change. It wouldn't make any sense for someone today to write like Haydn or maybe less so, like Art Tatum. Uri Caine seems interesting to me now. It's rewarding to listen to musicians playing Stan Kenton, Mozart, Billie Holiday but these are old ideas in terms of composition.
I'm not suggesting that musicians like Sonny Rollins write in the way that Cecil Taylor might. We should savor and respect what these musician/composers naturally developed into within the span of their careers, but all artists need to grow. Most accomplished jazz musicians write their own pieces. Musicians who make a living playing the music of Monk, Ellington, etc... are a different matter, as they can choose to invest in the works of their contemporaries or limit their repertoire to music of the past.
Composers, with exceptions being in rare cases, will try to avoid repeating what another composer has already written and since the rules of harmony have been stretched beyond all boundaries, the possibilities are endless. Since everyone is wired differently, every composer will create differently. Nevertheless Picasso said 'good artists borrow from other artists but great artists steal from other artists'. |
As with most, not so well thought out rants, the point gets lost on the side issues.
Rok, the usage of Lee Morgan's " Live at the Lighthouse" was only used as an example of how he and his music had changed, not a recommendation for the music. Also, I only have a double album, and not the CD which has more music added as usual, so YMMV.
Orpheus10, I have mainly commented in the past through a lens of what you were trying to say/learn on this thread. I lost that perspective on my last post, which was written only to say Jazz is in good hands, although different. I agree with your wise earlier statement that once we start arguing ''What is Jazz',' the thread will disintegrate into chaos and I don't want any part of that.
I do not feel qualified to lead any comment on newer jazz styles, as I like most of you, listen mostly to older music, especially since going mostly vinyl about 5 years back. Some of my newer Jazz favorites are now 10 years old, and the musician's are not young anymore. Also for the same reason you have chosen not to identify your mystery musician friend, I will respectfully have to keep some good, but controversial musicians off any list. It is easy to tear down.
I listen while I travel around town to the local college station KNTU, and hear great straight ahead music all day. Some new, some old. I will get some names for you if I think they have possibilities.
Ken Schaphorst- anything, but "Over the Rainbow " is an overlooked GEM.
William Parker- A virtuoso bass player known more for his group interplay and writing than his bass playing. ( sound like any one you know) Some of his music is harder to get, but most is surprisingly accessible. Never boring.
Earl Harvin- "Live at the Gypsy Tea Room" has been a regular on my system since around 2000. Earl plays a lot of styles and plays in Jazz to Funk to Rock bands. A monster on the drums. UNT professor Fred Hamilton on bass and guitar, and Dave Palmer on electric piano.
Benny Green
Kurt Elling
Kurt Rosenwinkle
Marchel Ivery
Dennis Gonzalez- Great trumpet player, getting a little more Avant-garde, but worth hearing.
What about John Abercrombie? I have left off about 1,000. |
Pnmyer, I listened to some Roy Hargrove recordings a few years back. He had a bright future , but had IMHO not matured as a musician at that time. I will certainly check him out. I will also check out Eric Alexander as I have, not to my knowledge, actually heard him play.
Charles Lloyd has turned into one of my favorites. His music with BoBo Stenson was magical. If you like Enrico Rava you might like Tomas Stanko. Both are very good.
Thanks, |
Acman3
I took the Lee Morgan thingy the way you meant it.
The tragedy that has befallen Jazz, is not limited to Jazz. You can substitute Jazz, with Rock & Roll or R&B or POP or Country or folk / protest or Gospel.
They have all suffered. The problem is, no one sees or hears the decline, except the people who are familiar with and / or grew up with the previous stuff. This is true of most things in society.
Think about it, Lee Morgan died over 41 years ago!!. I find myself waiting for his next Cd. We just said he was 19 a few posts ago, didn't we?
Jazz has the added problem or being an improvised music. That creates major problems.
How does a current player, play the great Jazz music? A current classical player can play Mozart today because it's written down on paper. How do you play Charlie Parker?
The next big problem is that because it is not a written down on paper music, and it is improvised, ANYONE, can play ANYTHING, and call it Jazz. And, I guess it is. Today.
So, the soloution is this. As a fan, or aficionado, You pick your stop on the railroad and get off. Just like the classical people did. you say, when this era,(fill in the blank) ended, that was the end of MY Jazz. The same goes for all the other genres. I will henceforth, live off compilations, reissues and remasters. And the odd surprise or discovery.
So there should not be any argument. Music does change. The public changes. Just pick the stuff you like and live with it. Just like the people that watch Verdi and Mozart operas year after year after year.
The Jazz stuff that I like most, was coming to an end, almost before I became aware of it's existence. Wow!!
Cheers |
Rok2id, there's still a lot of great music being made but there needs to be a willingness and an open mindedness in order to invest in it. Jazz is more of an art form than most other popular styles of music and so it takes a little work but it's well worth the trouble. I still plan to buy a 78 turntable however so that I can listen to a friends donated Charlie Parker recordings. Personally, I have more trouble with listening to music that is outside of the realm of legitimate or what we call in the vernacular, 'classical' but I listen to jazz because there is some of it that I find interesting or entertaining and that's about the only reason. |
I found Eric Alexander years ago and the band All for One. If you like what you hear,goto CrissCross record's website and give a listen. From what I've read so far a lot of you guys will like what Criss Cross has to offer. You will have heard of a lot of the artist there, and the ones you don't know... there good as well. Also check out Whirlwind Recordings ltd. What there doing in Europe with jazz will keep you listening for a while. I have a lot of the old recordings mentioned here and my turntable still gets a real workout. But these new cats are putting something down, and worth a listen. |
"but I listen to jazz because there is some of it that I find interesting or entertaining and that's about the only reason".
Well, that's about the only reason for listening to any music. I can't think of any genre in which I like it all. As Duke Ellington once said, there is good music, and there is bad music.
I have no problem cherry picking any genre for the good stuff. Sort of like listening to just the 'good parts' of an Opera. I guess that's why they make 'highlights' discs. Some of it just has to be seen to be appreciated. Or the 'warhorses' of the classical repertoire.
Cheers |
Certainly, and If I were to say that I appreciated everything in the classical raisonne, I'd either be an idiot or a liar. One thing that I do sympathize with is opposition to this notion that anything can be great, or creative or easily labeled and then placed in a drawer with something else. I had professors who would make comments like 'everyone is an artist' because that is what Joseph Beuys said and I have always considered that claim to be at the top of my B.S. list. You know, we don't want to come off as being elitists or insensitive in any way. Creating incomparable comparisons like 'is King Oliver in the same class as Bud Powel'; might amount to doing something to pass the time, like memorizing baseball statistics, but it really won't address art, music or aesthetics. |
Joseph Beuys?? No kidding!
Those Germans go from one extreme to the other. No half-way measures with them!
Cheers |
Anyone who thinks jazz is dead just needs to get out more often. Listen to these guys swing their a&%#s off. Heard here is Scott Robinson, a genius of this music. Sessions like these are commonplace in small clubs around NYC. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=716XrlpuSbM |
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Frogman et al.
I listened to the Buddy DeFranco youtube. It was what I expected. Good stuff. Buddy is a big time player. No surprises.
The Frank Viguola youtube was very interesting. As I listened to it, I was impressed with his skill on guitar. But, I felt something was missing. I thought it needed a different instrumentation. A rhythm section and horns?? A guitar and clarinet just didn't seem enough to do that type music justice. I thought to myself that this is happy music, up there, or down there,If you ask O-10, with Sweet Georgia Brown.
As it happened, my eyes wander over to the right side of the screen and there was a clip of Viguola playing Sweet Georgia Brown with the Wynton Marsalis quiintet. I played it.
If you ever want a demostration of my argument, these two youtubes are it!! Great musicians on both tapes. Music of the same degree of difficulty. DAY & NIGHT in overall effect!! Check it out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELXtZmFpvPk
Cheers
O-10: I didn't get what music you were speaking of: The Three Sounds or the Lee Morgan set? The one you will buy if the sound is good. |
Rok, "The Three Sounds". Chico Hamiltons West Coast CD's were lacking in the sonic department, they weren't as good as the "You tube's". That's why I asked. |
Rok, we all have different tastes; that is stating the obvious. Having said that, I couldn't disagree with you more concerning your comparison of the Peplowski and Marsalis cuts. Like I said, we all have different tastes and I am not about to try to change your mind, but will explain why I think the Peplowski cut, as a representation of that style of jazz, is infinitely superior.
You missed the whole point of my choice. First of all it was tied to featuring the clarinet along with the Buddy DeFranco cut.You are correct, there is something missing in the Peplowski cut: clutter. That is precisely the point. The way that guitar and clarinet only can generate that much drive and swing WITHOUT drums and bass and other horns is the point. Call it chamber jazz, if you will. Lastly and most importantly, in the Marsalis cut, while Vignola excels again, the other soloists are not on the same level as Peplowski. O'connor's solo is stiff, Marsalis is his usual impressive but "not quite right" brand of swing; and Blanding, while delivering the best solo (besides Vignola) is, like Marsalis, simply not idiomatic and not entirely convincing, with deviations into inappropriate and much more contemporary musical vocabulary. IMO.
Regards. |
Frogman:
I think this exchange is very important, at least to me it is. I now have a 'concrete example' to play over and over again. And your reasoning to read over and over again. I think after this, I will understand your concept of Jazz.
I will listen to 'Tiger Rag' many times, and try and hear what you hear. And also listen for the 'clutter' in Sweet Georgia Brown.
Thanks for the post.
Cheers |
Rok, thank you for the reasoned response. To be clear, I am not saying that the Marsalis cut is not jazz, how could I? Only that in the context of that particular idiom and what should be appropriate vocabulary for a tune in that style, I think the Peplowski is more convincing. For instance, all is pretty good until the drums, and later, trumpet and sax come in. The feel is appropriate and "bouncy" (why so many of the tunes from that era had the word "Bounce" in the title); then, when the drums come in, things jump forward a couple of decades (an eternity in the evolution of jazz) with decidedly much more modern swing feel. The horn soloists, likewise, can't resist not staying strictly "inside" the harmony and jump even further ahead with their use of extended harmony (outside the traditional harmony). An over-analysis to be sure, and I am not saying that it is bad at all, or that it is not appropriate to play any tune in any style (Coltrane's "My Favorite Things" !!!), only that the ingredients in that recipe, for me, don't come together as well as in the other one. |
Frogman:
Frank Vignola is a guitar virtusos!! The guy is like the Maurice Andre of the guitar. I looked him up on Wikipedia to see his background. It ain't Jazz. As I suspected, he is a great master of the instrument and apparently teaches and publishes how to books on guitar playing. He is good enough to do that.
I listened to more of his youtube stuff to sort of get a context in which to put him. He has clips playing, Scheherezade, Beethoven's Fifth, and several Jazz Standards. Almost as if he is an exhibitionist. He is shown with some other guitarist at something called the Long Beach Jazz Fest. Not very impressive.
The bottom line is this, IMO, he is, as I said a virtuoso. He can play anything. Is he a Jazz guitartist? He has the skills for sure, the question is, does he have an affinity for the music?
Sweet Georgia Brown (SGB)
Could you subconsciously be under the influence of Django and people of his ilk. For instance, When I hear SGB, I think, Stephane and Django. I don't know why. After all, no one does it, or can do it, like Ella. It's that 'bounce' of the guitar. Makes me think that's the way SGB is 'supposed' to sound. Le Hot Club? But that's not correct. It can sound anyway the artist wants it to sound. I liked his solo and I liked the Quintet just as much.
Tiger Rag:
His playing on Tiger Rag was good. I listened to it again and appreciate it more now. I still think a duo of guitar and clarinet does not have the 'weight' to do Jazz justice. His solo on SGB was better due to the backing of Carlos Henriquez on bass.
The most I see him doing in Jazz is having a nice career in Europe or carve a niche for himself here in the USA as a player / teacher. Sort of like Grappelli.
As always, IMO.
Cheers |
Rok, the west coast jazz by Chico was flat, and I'm not an extreme audiophile. At the beginning, I stated there was a CD I wouldn't review, and it had some of the very best jazz in my collection, but the CD was lacking "nuance", that was essential to this music, plus the record is no longer available; consequently there was no point in even mentioning this music.
I won't buy any of the music you're ordering until I get your report.
Enjoy the music.
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Rok, in NYC (and I am sure, in every major city) there are different scenes within the larger jazz scene and community of musicians. You have the be-boppers, the fusion guys, the "out" guys and, believe it or not, a vibrant retro swing scene; with guys like Peplowski and Vignola who specialize in the traditional swing repertoire. Of course, some of the players "cross-over" with various levels of success. FYI, Vignola is considered THE swing guitarist on the scene right now. He has his niche (as does Peplowski) and is most certainly a jazz player who is hugely respected by his peers.
I think one of the tricky issues with these discussions is that we tend to judge a player's ability, at least in part, by the player's visibility to the general music-loving public. Of course, a genre (swing) that is not the most popular at any given time reduces greatly that visibility of these players. That unfortunate reality does not, in any way, diminish their clout as players. Many of these guys are extremely dedicated to a particular style of jazz, no matter how unpopular or superseded by other styles it may be; and their command and understanding of the style and it's musical vocabulary is far superior than it often is to higher-profile players who may be considered "hipper" by the general public. Of special note is the fact that it is these "hip (per?)" musicians themselves who most respect and sometimes revere the niche players. |
Frogman, I'd certainly consider Wayne Krantz to be one of the 'hipper' players, so maybe he lives in Soho but I don't consider him as un-deserving of his popularity. Yes, popularity doesn't account for musicianship, artistry or technique but it doesn't refute a musicians capabilities either. 'Money can't produce good poetry'. I suppose fame could erode integrity but ultimately an artist has a choice. The sad reality with all of the arts in this country is that it is underfunded and seen as insignificant unless it's able to sustain itself financially. The niche players will often maintain a higher level of artistic integrity but they're also more susceptible to burdening financial woes. |
I said Soho, I should have said Chelsea. |
Goofyfoot, why do I feel we need to argue, when there is no argument at all? You are reading into my comments things that I am not suggesting at all. Where do I say anything suggesting that the "hipper" players are not deserving of their popularity? I don't disagree with anything you wrote (I LOVE Wayne Krantz, BTW) with the possible exception of your comments re funding for the arts. That's a discussion about the politics of all this, and I think it wise to stay away from that one; or, at least, save it for another thread.
Vignola and Krantz are completely different players, and I suspect they would be the first to say it. When I say "hipper", I mean "in a more contemporary style", and not in a style that is a kind of throw-back to a what can fairly be considered a bygone era (swing). In the case of my comment, "hip" is a nod to popular vernacular. The truth is that in musicians' vernacular hipness can be found in ALL styles, retro or not. It is a statement about a player's mastery of an idiom, and ability to be inventive within that idiom; wether that idiom was popular 70 years ago, or on the cutting edge of the present.
****The niche players will often maintain a higher level of artistic integrity but they're also more susceptible to burdening financial woes.****
Often, but not always. Yes, susceptible to financial woes. But, many outside the music industry would be surprised at the level of financial success that players like Vignola enjoy. It is all relative. Is it the kind of success that the Kenny G's of the world enjoy? Of course not; not even close. I prefer to consider the Kenny G's of the music scene to be anomalies. These kinds of anomalies have always existed in the arts, and are pretty irrelevant as far as what defines the true merits of any art form; they are to be simply ignored. |
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A few comments on some recent posts....Clarinet-Kenny Davern,fill in the blanks of superlatives because they all apply,plus a determination to excell beyond his usual musical orbit and create in each solo,not only a history of Jazz, but to convey it in the most personal way.
Frank Vignola...Fine player,but listen to Howard Alden.
Eric Alexander...behemoth player,like the "Thanksgiving" of all the living big toned Tenor Saxophonists,he always seems to fill you up and satisfy you musically and emotionally.His latest effort,among many,"Touching" on Highnote tends to magnify his "sound" over content and some of the tunes are of a more recent vintage that don't capture my interest.I have to give him props for trying to extend the circle of compositions for improvisations.I am anxious to hear him over the next few years.
Dave Liebman and the re-formed "Quest" (with Richie Beirach,Ron McLure and Billy Hart) are back at it on "circular" on Enja.This is a program of 60's compositions associated with Miles Davis.This is a delightful session of mature players,comfortable together and pushing forwards in a sideways move,nothing earthshaking,yet forging a collective quilt of music that draws you in.Billy Hart is a gifted drummer who can see beyond the music while creating the pulse of it.
David Liebman....prolific and sublime,as a listener he instills an air of confidence that he is giving his ultimate expression,this is a direct influence of John Coltrane who re-newed high standards in a post Charlie Parker Jazz world.
Some interesting younger players to watch Jonas Kullhammer and Jon Irabegon (sp on both? sorry)
The curse and gift of Jazz is that it can be the greatest thing and it can be the most mundane thing,both survive, and can only be limited by the intelligence of the listener.I have ALWAYS found that the best music has the least audience and musicians that "promote" themselves usually do so because they don't have the dedication to put it into their instrument.The least talented always have the most time to hype themselves. |
"If they act too hip, you know they can't play shit" - Miles Davis |
I'm not here to argue but I am adding commentary. A lot of these comparisons are ambiguous as most comparisons are prone to be. I have always believed it to be most constructive to talk about music in terms of things like harmony, counterpoint, arranging, composition, orchestration, tempo. I realize that this is too much to expect on a forum however these categorical labels are just trash pale terminologies. For example, I could listen to a Paul Bley record and explain in musical and aesthetic terms, his approach to composition and his effortless command over the piano but if I were to rely on terms like 'cutting edge' or 'retro' or whatever else, then that is where things begin to get murky. The only categorical term that I could come up with for honestly describing Paul Bley's music currently might be 'real time composition' but this wouldn't be true all of the time and it wouldn't help since most people lack knowledge about what 'real time composition' is. The point being that much of this forum looks like an insular argument because of its ambiguity. |
My (unsolicited) advice to all is this: Don't get to analytical. The important thing is, do you like it, or don't like it. Tell us which and why. Comment on the sound quality. Maybe we will discover new music, which is what this forum is about.
Speaking of new music:
Today I was going to add about 50 cds to my hard drive and put them in the proper rack. I thought I would need a little background music while I did this, so I put Aster Aweke, in the player. 30 seconds into the first track, I had to stop and listen. Those Cds are still waiting to be cataloged.
Aster Aweke -- Kabu
I have had this Cd for around 20 years. When I bought it I listened to a track or two and then put it in the 'try again later' shelf.
WOW! What a difference 20 years makes in a person's musical taste and maturity. This is why I never throw away CDs I don't like initially. Great voice, great songs and Outstanding recording. Translation of the vocals in the CD liner.
You ain't got it? Git It!!
In a similar vein:
Zap Mama -- Adventures In Afropea 1
This is a fun disc. Five women of African and European decent. Just the human voice. No Clutter!:) These women are having fun and it comes thru. Some of the tunes have a 'Sweet Honey In The Rock' flavor. Great Stuff!
Ain't got it? Git it, right after you git AWEKE!
O-10:
I hereby pronounce the Three Sounds 'Eight Classic Albums', outstanding music, outstanding recordindgs and an outstanding bargain!! Nat Adderly and Stanley Turrentine appear. Gene Harris is in fine form.
Cheers |
Thank you Rok, I already have the music you recommended, and I concur. The music you pronounced OK will be on order.
Enjoy the music. |
I am very much looking forward to goofyfoot's monograph on Paul Bley.I would love for all of us to see a biographical and historical perspective.Musical analysis of his sytlistic evolution and of course what led to his "effortless command over the piano".Recommended recordings would be a plus.
The last time i heard effortless command over the piano was Roger Williams playing "Born Free". |
Jazzcourier, you're apparently resentful about my having mentioned that I would opt to describe particular works by Paul Bley by using an aesthetic and theoretical vocabulary. This is common practice by the way in all music programs beyond grade school and it generally applies to all music that is based on the western harmonies. I use Paul Bley as an example in order to make a point but I can discuss theory and aesthetics concerning music in general despite the composer or performer and despite whether someone wants to call it jazz, post modern, or anything else. None of my statements apply to recounting Paul Bley's life within a biographical context or lecturing on the history of western music and his place in it. I'm sorry that you have a ax to grind but your claims are presumptuous at best. |
I have no axe,or resentful weapons at all.I just wish you would make a SPECIFIC point that would benefit the listeners and readers.I think there are many here that would enjoy the challenge of Bley's music (a myriad of music created over 55 years) and his musical journey in the world of Jazz and improvisation.As far as i am concerned you can get all theoretical and start waving artistic aesthetics around, but frankly, you are boring us,and Paul Bley ain't boring. |
Jazzcourier, so you believe that your speaking on behalf of everyone else? |
Goofyfoot, he speaks for me. lets talk about music. not music theory. |
They are getting ready to kick me out of the library here in Bakersfield,so i won't be able to use the computer anymore.I have my Volkswagon parked over there behind the walmart and i am getting ready to curl up in the back seat with a pony bottle of I.W. Harper.I got me a little radio here and i am going to see if i can find me some nice music and get me a little sleep zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. |
We can't have it both ways.
I think that a thread such as this is a breath of fresh air on this forum (Agon). What could be better than an opportunity to discover and share new music? Personal opinion and commentary are an inevitable part of the process; after all, we are supposed to be sharing favorites and "must haves". But, I think the trick to keeping the discussion relevant is to keep an open mind re others' opinions while at the same time being careful about our own proclamations of the superiority of this artist or that. If we make a claim about artist X being the best, or performance Y being superior to Z, we should be able to back it up with some thoughtful and insightful analysis. If we want to keep the discussion to "this is my favorite" and leave it at that, that's fine; but, personally I find it very limiting. Likewise, comments about the music in general can come across as proclamations of truth without substance (analysis) to back them up.
As Jazzcourier points out historical and biographical perspective (combined with relevant, and ACCESSIBLE musical analysis) is hugely important. The mistake that the listener often makes is an ironic one. The listener develops a passion for a certain music and favorite artists, and music being the incredible force that it is causes the listener to be very protective of favorite artists or personal "new discoveries" without keeping this "view" in a more humble place. There is always a huge amount more to learn about this amazing art form. IMO, the best place to approach the process of learning from is from a place of "judicious self-assurance"; while remembering that there will always be someone who has a deeper understanding than ourselves. That is what the great artists themselves do: quick to dismiss the bull-shitters, but reluctant to put themselves on a pedestal because of the knowledge that if they are not open to getting their butts kicked, they will not reach their full potential.
****The curse and gift of Jazz is that it can be the greatest thing and it can be the most mundane thing,both survive, and can only be limited by the intelligence of the listener**** - Jazzcourier
IMO, one of the best comments that I have read on this forum. |
