Jazz for aficionados

Acman, I believe that was the most appropriate response to a post that I've ever read.

Acman, that CS Lewis quote is fantastic! Do you happen to know where that is from exactly?

Rok, Frogman as usual answered your questions very well. The only thing I would add about differences between different orchestras is that obviously budget size/season length comes into it, which of course has a tremendous effect on the quality of musician that would audition when there are openings. The Berlin Philharmonic and the Austin Symphony are in no way comparable in this sense, they are very different animals indeed. The Berlin Philharmonic is a very well paying full time job (and in this case by full time I mean a 52 week orchestra). The Austin Symphony is a part time orchestra - many of the players in it are the professors at UT Austin and their students. I would have to look up how many weeks the season is, but I doubt they play more than 8 or 10 concert sets in a season - what we call a "gig" orchestra. Perhaps they are one step up from that, but no one is making their living solely as a member of the Austin Symphony. They would be supplementing it with another job. This type of orchestra does not attract anywhere near the best musicians, in fact there wouldn't be very many people show up from outside the central Texas area for one of their auditions - it simply doesn't pay enough for anyone to justify moving to Austin to be in it. Central Texas, by the way, does not even have much of a free-lance classical music scene - this is the main reason why the Austin Symphony relies so much on the University of Texas.

****Miles went to Juilliard*** His first mistake. I knew there was something wrong there.****

Hmmmm, so did Wynton.

O-10:

*****Rok, I'm hoping the CD will offer something I didn't hear on the computer, but before I get the CD, I must say; they have too much of a "popular" sound for me. Just from reading the song titles, and personnel, I'm saying to myself "It's got to be good", but in my old age, I'm very hard to please because "good" is no longer good enough.******

The computer/youtube does not do the bey's justice. The tune list is sort of misleading, in the sense that you have never heard them done this way. Unique arrangements and fantastic harmony. The can really sing. Besides Kenny Burrell, Milt Hinton, Jo Jones and others, are on board, and provide great Jazz credentials.

If you don't love it, I will refund your money. I am older than you, and I listen to it everyday.

Got a new Cd player today. Can't wait to hear it on the new Marantz. Damn, I'm beginning to sound like an Audiophile!:( Help me Jesus!!

Cheers.

The trouble with trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed.

C.S. Lewis

Notec, if only I still had the vim vigor and vitality to hang at those nightclubs which were anything but "melancholy". Visions of beautiful jazzy ladies still dance in my head, while the live sounds of saxophones, trumpets, drums and many other melodic instruments haunt my memories; they remind me of nights of a thousand dreams that are no more. Have you ever been on the street of dreams?

Love laughs at a king
Kings don't mean a thing
On the street of dreams

Dreams broken in two
Can be made like new
On the street of dreams

Gold, silver and gold
All you can hold
Is in the moonbeam

Poor, no one is poor
As long as love is sure
On the street of dreams

Gold, silver and gold
All you can hold
Is in the moonbeam

Poor, no one is poor
As long as love is sure
On the street of dreams

Or walked the street of sorrow on the boulevard of broken dreams?

I walk along the street of sorrow -
The boulevard of broken dreams -
Where Gigolo and Gigolette -
Can take a kiss without regret -
and so forget their broken dreams.

You laugh today and cry tomorrow -
When you behold your shattered schemes -
And Gigolo and Gigolette wake up to find
their eyes are wet with tears that tell of
broken dreams.

Here is where you'll always find
me -
Always walking up and down -
But I left my soul behind me
in an old cathedral town "

The joy that you find here, you borrow -
You cannot keep it long it seems -
But Gigolo and Gigolette -
Still sing a song and dance along -
The boulevard of broken dreams.

They are both flip sides of the same coin, where Gigolo and Gigolette can take a kiss without regret and so forget their broken dreams. Gigolo and Gigolette can always be found in those, not so "melancholy" jazz clubs where they are destined to meet and once again to walk the street of dreams, a street that leads to the boulevard of sorrow.

Enjoy the music.

Rok, I'm hoping the CD will offer something I didn't hear on the computer, but before I get the CD, I must say; they have too much of a "popular" sound for me. Just from reading the song titles, and personnel, I'm saying to myself "It's got to be good", but in my old age, I'm very hard to please because "good" is no longer good enough.

These are my thoughts before listening to the CD, I'll give you a long write up after.

Enjoy the music.

“When I hear Jazz, my first instinct is to lean over to the guy next to me and whisper, "Fourth floor, please.”
― Jarod Kintz,

Jazz? The best of jazz for all its virtues cannot escape the limitations of its origin: it is indoor music, city music, distilled from the melancholy nightclubs and the marijuana smoke of dim, sad, nighttime rooms: a joyless sound, for all its nervous energy.
― Edward Abbey

*****I ordered her latest CD, "Southern Comfort"; she sounds so relaxed and confident now. Her new CD is derived from her roots in the south before she was born, I think it will be quite interesting.******

Let me know how you like it. And do yourself a favor and order this also. You will not be sorry!

http://www.concordmusicgroup.com/artists/andy-bey-and-the-bey-sisters/

Cheers

Blues: Music Form vs Genre

Nuts and bolts blues, is the musical form. Muddy, Wolf, Hooker, and comnpany, is the Genre.

When I use the word Blues I am thinking of Muddy etc...

***Miles went to Juilliard*** His first mistake. I knew there was something wrong there.

"Miles has left Jazz and gone into Rock"-- Wynton Marsalis.
hahahahahha

Thanks for insights O-10. Spot on as usual.

Cheers

Rok, while we both agreed on the old "Regina Carter", based on the "new" Regina Carter, I ordered her latest CD, "Southern Comfort"; she sounds so relaxed and confident now. Her new CD is derived from her roots in the south before she was born, I think it will be quite interesting.

Enjoy the music.

Rok, while we both agreed on the old "Regina Carter", based on the "new" Regina Carter, I ordered her latest CD, "Southern Comfort"; she sounds so relaxed and confident now. Her new CD is derived from her roots in the south before she was born, I think it will be quite interesting.

Enjoy the music.

Before I get misunderstood, I meant crediting "Regina Carter" with my reborn interest in this music, nothing more or less.

Absolutely! That, the skill level of their respective conductors and, as an extension of skill level, the stylistic identity of the players and hence the orchestra. Eventhough the traditionally strong stylistic personalities of the various orchestras has been getting homogenized in our era of globalization they still remain an obvious force. This individuality is a result of the cultural forces in a given country and the resultant training that musicians receive. Every major orchestra has a certain "sound" identity which would not be able to be expressed if the skill level of the players were not extremely high. The Berlin players are unlikely to "forget to put the meat in the Gerschnetzeltes" :-)

BTW, thanks for the kind words. There are others who are deserving; not the least of which are the music lovers.

The Frogman:

Thanks for an excellent answer. You just could be the most valuable resource on all of Audiogon.

Can we now say that any difference heard between Berlin and Austin would be due to the difference in the skill level of the players? That's what I was trying to determine.

Cheers

Ok, are you referring to the score in terms of the music (notes) written in it, or in terms of the visual APPEARENCE of the notes? If you mean the music, yes they would be identical. Berlin, being a major orchestra probably owns a set of score and parts. Austin, probably not and would rent a set from the publisher.

Now, I made the distinction between the music and the appearance of the score because some works are published by more than one publisher (public domain) while others (mainly contemporary works) are given publishing rights to one single publisher. When there is more than one publisher, the parts will look different as far as the type and size of print font used, size of the page, type of paper etc. But, the MUSIC (the NOTES) will be identical with, possibly, some very minor "corrections" of a wrong note or two. In fact, and ironically, some orchestras have owned their set for so long that the score and parts can be pretty beat up with countless penciled-in markings by different players made over the years to indicate a particular conductor's tempo and phrasing wishes, personal reminders about various musical considerations and everything from bowings for the strings (ever wonder how an entire string section bows up or down at the same time?) to sometimes hysterically funny commentary or "art work" about a hated guest conductor or colleague. This is the reason that most rental sets have a sticker on the score and individual parts stating that any markings must be made in pencil and erased before returning the set to the publisher; otherwise a fee will be billed for cleaning up the parts. Still, many of the markings remain or are not erased fully before going from Berlin to Austin and the Texans may get to see some markings or commentary in German.

If the Berlin Philharmonic is playing Beethoven's Ninth and the Austin, Texas symphony is playing Beethoven's Ninth, are they using identical scores?

Cheers

Interesting segue!

I don't understand the question. The score is the score and the music is the music as the composer intended it; no more, no less.

Rok, truly no disrespect intended, but unless I am missing something in your question, that is a rather bizarre question; and the reason I keep trying to encourage you to learn more about the... well, you know what (and it can't be bought at a hardware store).

Let me try to answer your question this way:

I am sure that you have several versions of LvB's 9th. OK, so when you listen to them do you hear differences in the music, version to version, other than possibly stylistic differences in the playing and/or singing? You shouldn't. The score is exactly the same always with the possible exception of relatively minor differences in the various editions (certain repeated passages, corrected notes etc.); but, those differences don't, in any way, make the music any more difficult or easier to perform. The scores of major works are considered pretty sacrosanct; you don't mess with them in a significant way. Don't confuse this with some versions of works performed by some of the "classical-lite" orchestras like that of that Andre Rieu dude where the scores are sometimes "modified" to better suit the showy vibe with the multi-colored ladies' concert dress; that stuff is pretty much bullshit.

I would appreciate some more info re your question to give a better answer.

***My impression is that when there isn't unequivocal agreement with your assessment of an artist there seems to be a knee jerk reaction in the negative instead of a substantive discussion of the particulars of the "why's and how's"; perhaps I am mistaken****

I think all three of us agree on Carter. Yes, perhaps you are.

***But, to suggest that those guys can't play is ludicrous; those guys can play and they demonstrate superior musicianship even if falling short in the area of authenticity as compared to Delta blues.***

Didn't say they could not play. Did not even say the tune was not blues. I was just pointing out that music can meet certain technical criteria, and still not sound like what the name implies.

****"inner workings"**** aaaaaiiiiiieeeeeeeeee!!!!!
you slay one dragon and The Frogman blindsides you with another! Mercy Lord!!

****The "authentic" but mediocre food, or the excellent Nuveau (and barely Mexican) food? For me, it's a no-brainer.***

Depends on the genre. Blues, Gospel, Folk and real Country (not C&W), has to be authentic, otherwise its not really what the name says it is. A lot of modern music has no 'authentic' component to it. It consist of just the notes on the page.

IOW, the current Queen of Opera Divas, can sing any gospel song ever written. Blues and country songs also. Even if this diva was born and raised in Germany. Right? She can get the nuts and bolts, oops, I mean inner workings, perfect pitch and tone, but I doubt if she would get the correct meaning of the music. She would not want to get on the stage with The Gaithers or Mahalia Jackson.

When I was reading your food analogy, I thought about the Little Stevie Wonder song "Finger-tips parts one and two. On the record you can hear a member of the band shouting to his band mates "what Key?,What Key?" hahahaha. Mom and Pop forgot to put the meat in the tamales!!

Other than these few insignificant points, we are in total agreement.

Cheers

Rok, you and Frogman can not communicate because he's speaking Spanish and you're speaking French. "Jazz", as ambiguous as that word is, is 100 times more definitive than "The Blues". Is one speaking of "jazz oriented" blues, or "Delta oriented" blues.

Miles went to Juilliard, and "John Lee" went to the juke joints and the cotton fields. Miles never got any closer to cotton than his Hanes underwear, or was that Michael Jordon; anyway you get my drift. Jazz and blues cultures are as far apart as night and day. A musicians music is intrinsically who he is. Forget about the music, simply go to "google" and compare the bios of jazz and blues musicians to see where I'm coming from. John Lee's nuts and bolts are the juke joints, cotton fields, and all the other cultural morays of African Americans from the Delta.

When you go to "google" and compare bios of musicians, you'll see where they are coming from, and where I'm coming from.

Enjoy the music.

Just wondering.

Sheet music, and degree of difficulty. Would the written score used by the world's top Orchestras of a Beethoven symphony all be identical?

If they can and do get simpler, or less difficult, give an example of an Orchestra (name) that would use the simpler score.

Cheers

Rok, I fully expected a response along these lines. My impression is that when there isn't unequivocal agreement with your assessment of an artist there seems to be a knee jerk reaction in the negative instead of a substantive discussion of the particulars of the "why's and how's"; perhaps I am mistaken

***That the clip was an example of 'nuts&bolts' blues. IOW, it met some school book definition of the blues.****

Perhaps your school book. I already conceded that it is not like Delta blues and pointed out that to make the comparison is pointless. But, to suggest that those guys can't play is ludicrous; those guys can play and they demonstrate superior musicianship even if falling short in the area of authenticity as compared to Delta blues.

****Now, my question. What was your point in presenting the O'Conner clip? ESP since the discussion was not about violins or blues.****

The discussion certainly was about violins. My point was the same as in presenting the Grapelli clips: as a way of explaining, while agreeing that Carter is a good player, why I am not impressed with her playing quite as much as others are, and why I prefer to listen to other players. I believe I made my point very clear previously. All, as an extension of O-10's comment and query about her tone; and the reason why the discussion had turned to violins. Now, why did you turn it into a discussion about the blues and the authenticity of a particular style of playing? That would be fine; as I am sure you know by now I welcome a challenge. The difference is, however, that while I agreed that Carter was a good player there were aspects of her playing that I did not like; and, I offered specifics. You dismissed the O'Connor performance out of hand as "school book", "they can't play", etc. C'mon!

Obviously, we will have disagreements. What I can offer is this: it may come as a surprise to you, but I don't have any less appreciation for Delta Blues and it's authenticity (or not) than you do; I have listened to a lot more of it than you may imagine. You seem to regularly dismiss the (perhaps ill-chosen term) "nut and bolts" and suggest that somehow it also means a distraction from some sort of inner and deeper appreciation of the soul of music; you couldn't be more mistaken. This is a recurring theme in this thread. I can only keep trying to point out and encourage you to understand that deeper understanding of the "inner workings" (is that better?) of music leads to deeper appreciation of ALL aspects of music. I will concede that this concept may not apply to everyone as I can understand how going to that analytical place may be an insurmountable distraction FOR SOME. In a nutshell, and to sum up why I made the comments that I made about the three players mentioned (and it relates to the subject of authenticity vs. "nuts and bolts"):

As I have said before, I love food analogies. I have been on a Mexican food kick lately. I cook it and have been to various restaurants of various pedigrees lately. Some restaurants are of the Mom and Pop variety and offer truly authentic Mexican food; "the real deal" and evoke being being home (I am not Mexican), grandma and all that good stuff. At the opposite end of the spectrum are those restaurants that offer "Nuveau-Mexican" cuisine prepared by chefs that have impeccable and schooled technique and offer creations that are sometimes delicious and are prepared with the finest ingredients and presented in unique and visually beautiful ways; unfortunately, sometimes these creations have only a passing resemblance to traditional Mexican cooking. Now for the rub (pun intended):

There are also those restaurants of the Mom and Pop (and Nuveau) variety that offer food that is simply not that good. Authentic? Yes; but, just so-so in its execution and resulting taste. It may be too oily, too salty, served cold or prepared with old and inferior ingredients. So which would I prefer to eat? The "authentic" but mediocre food, or the excellent Nuveau (and barely Mexican) food? For me, it's a no-brainer.

Cheers.

*****Now, what exactly is your point?*****

That the clip was an example of 'nuts&bolts' blues. IOW, it met some school book definition of the blues.

****I would bet that they would really dig it; because great musicians are open minded and appreciate great playing no matter the style (or color).*****

You keep saying this, but I don't buy it. You can't go by what they say in public or during interviews. If a person makes their living depending on the public, why would a person risk alienating large parts of that public by speaking ill of others. All those guys have huge egos!! Or course they know some guys can't play. They may never say it out loud.

I don't know why you always try to introduce color into this. Give it a rest. Unless you think you can have a detailed discussion of Jazz, Blues, Gospel and R&B, without mentioning black artists. I guess you can try.

*****After all, it's the violin playing that was the subject of the discussion; no?*****

As a matter of fact it was not. I just presented the clip because it was different. The NPR thingy. Also checked some more of her stuff on the side clips, and found a few good ones. And they were good.

The OP and I both said we had stuff by her that we were not impressed with. We then agreed she had improved. NO ONE said, or suggested, that she was better than anyone. The clips were not even of her group. She was guest or just sat in. It was still GOOD Playing.

Grappelli is great. All of his stuff sounds French and European to my ear. The hot club stuff. Maybe gypsy is a better word. If you like it, no problem. With me, a little goes a long way. I have his highly rated CDs, and those with Django. That's all I Need.

Now, my question. What was your point in presenting the O'Conner clip? ESP since the discussion was not about violins or blues.

Cheers

"Nuts and bolts" is not irrelevant in any genre of music. If you really believe that then you don't understand what is meant by the expression.

****but I never heard anything that remotley sounded like this.****

Well, as my 11yr old likes to say: Duh! Who said it does or that it's trying to?

****I wonder what John Lee and the boys would make of it.****

I would bet that they would really dig it; because great musicians are open minded and appreciate great playing no matter the style (or color).

Now, what exactly is your point? Comparing that "blues" tune to Delta blues is pointless. Why get hung up on the title? That it is a blues is indisputable: twelve bar form and classic blues harmonic progression. But then, you knew that; no? Seems to me that the only thing that matters is wether it's good playing or not.

So, don't just throw barbs, tell us why exactly anything that was written about O'Connor's performance (and more importantly, Grapelli's) is not true, and why exactly Carter's playing is superior (if that is what you are suggesting). After all, it's the violin playing that was the subject of the discussion; no?

Cheers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4kvzWLSDT4&app=desktop

This could be a textbook example of just how irrelevant 'nuts & Bolts' can be to certain genres. (Jazz, Blues, Gospel,R&B)

I am sure by some musical definition, or standard, this is a blues tunes. But I grew up in the Mississippi Delta, and heard a lot of the greats, granted, before I knew what I was hearing, but I never heard anything that remotley sounded like this.

I wonder what John Lee and the boys would make of it.

Just so happens I recently received Oliver Nelson's CD "screamin' the blues". Features Eric Dolphy. All blues lovers should check it out.

Boogie Chillun' :)

Cheers

Frogman, here it is, "Quintette du Hot Club de France".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=it_JlVlR8JQ

This is the one me and Rok have on "Jazz of the 50's and 60's".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDPADMM_to0

I have to credit Regina Carter for this "Renaissance".

Enjoy the music.

Frogman, that's exactly who I was thinking of. Although I couldn't place a name with the sound I was hearing in my mind, when I went to "Stephane Grapelli" on your post, the two came together. I have him as a sideman mostly, but that's going to change as of today.

Nothing stays the same, everything changes, and that includes my taste in jazz; what was old and slow before, is exactly what I want to hear now.

On "Oh,Lady Be Good", I could hear Django's ghost. It all came back to me, "Quintette du Hot Club de France". I've got to get more of that.

On "The Cluster Blues", they just let the music flow without forcing anything; that's a case of the harder an artist try's, the worse it gets, but if an artist just lets it come from within, the music flows and it works. Mark O' Conners Swing Trio did everything right.

Enjoy the music

O-10, Regina Carter's main influence (by her own admission) was the great Stephane Grapelli, and probably the reason for your astute observation about her tone. In addition to that it is possible that her violin is slightly larger than typical. Not all violins, while still considered "full size", are of the exact same size, and from pictures and videos it appears that her violin may be slightly larger than typical and that would be a contributor to the warm sound that you hear.

Regina Carter is a fine player and I agree with your observation that she has really blossomed. Her playing has not always impressed me at a level commensurate with the rep. I am very impressed with her playing, but have to temper my enthusiasm when considering the level that I think she is striving for and not quite reaching yet in a consistent manner. She plays with a really great feel and jazz sensibility and has obviously done her homework, but there are some technical issues that, for me, distract from full enjoyment compared to, for instance, Grapelli's lofty standard. Pitch is something that great players use and manipulate as a way to add color to the tone and to project a certain attitude; by playing slightly under the pitch a certain "bluesy" attitude can be projected. However, sometimes that is simply the way the player hears things all the time and/or is the fault of a technical deficiency and there is a constant sense that she is always reaching for the pitch and not quite getting there (flat); for me, it's a distraction that isn't necessarily a deal breaker if the music is really happening in other ways. I know some will think I am nitpicking and my comment may seem unfair, but I think there is a bit of hype going on here for a variety of reasons. None of this should be surprising; I have never heard or read a qualifying comment about Grapelli's playing "having blossomed". She is a really good player, but the bottom line for me is that I don't hear enough "there there" to want to go out of my way to listen to what she has to say musically; and, if simply violin playing is what I want to hear I would prefer Grapelli (admittedly more steeped in a "hot jazz" vibe):

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih_62WMfWEc

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JnhgapeBWuE

And for someone who is still with us:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r4kvzWLSDT4

O-10:

*****Rok, could you post what CD's these cuts are from*****

I am not sure there is a CD. If there is, I have not been able to find it on Amazon.

Cheers

Rok, could you post what CD's these cuts are from. She compliments the musicians she's playing with so well that they sound better; that's the sign of an old pro who's still young.

Regina has also acquired an old mellow sound on her instrument that reminds me of somebody; I'm sure Frogman can tell me who. That sound is most profound on "I Can't Believe You're Still In Love With Me." Instead of forcing the music, she's just letting it flow.

Keep em coming, I'm enjoying the music.

O-10:

****Regina Carter has really blossomed; I have a CD by her that I'm not too fond of*****

I agree completely. I also have an older CD of hers that I don't play alot.

***her jazz sensibilities make her sound like an old pro,***

Exactly!! Well Stated.

Cheers

Don't like these? Git outta Jazz!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jDDtUFUgbM
Bey Sisters SMOOTH SAILING

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVrB0TqRkEU
Bey sisters LOVE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCwWOEEvOjY
TASTE OF HONEY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNR0iLw92Gc&index=14&list=PLV6hME6DzFRSZy8PSXolDVKeWbcye7dLg
THE THRILL IS GONE

Cheers

.
You guys check out The Jamie Saft Trio.

The song is 'What Was It You Wanted?'

From the Jamie Saft Plays Bob Dylan album...
...it should be on Rhapsody Music Service.
.

Gives new meaning to dumb as a stone.

Rock, I needed a new "motherboard"; it didn't cost much, but the labor was a "mother". Everything's feminist now days, why couldn't it have been a "Father board".

Regina Carter has really blossomed; I have a CD by her that I'm not too fond of, now she can join every jazz artist who ever lived, but on the serious side, I really like this, I must have the CD.

Although my computer is still being worked on, I can post; replacement is not an option when you become a "PC Audiophile". I know that sounds "snobbish" but so be it.

I'm glad you posted this, now she's back on my A- List, or should I say A+ list; I liked what to me is the "new" Regina Carter, her jazz sensibilities make her sound like an old pro, which she is when I compare what I hear now to that old CD. I gave her 4 and 3/4 stars, no one gets 5, although I enjoyed every last note of each posting.

Enjoy the music.

*****Tell that to Lois Lerner.*****

Her computer was just following orders. As was, I suspect, Ms Lerner. :)

Cheers

I have a ticket to Sonnerberg's Concert at the Minnesota Beethoven Festival in two weeks. I'll tell her the greatest American critic is worried about her career at the meet and greet.

****Computers don't go on the fritz these days. ****

Tell that to Lois Lerner.

What ever happened to Sonnenberg? She was thought to be the next queen of violin, after Anne-Sophie Mutter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTU8Q0paSzk

Cheers

O-10:
Computers don't go on the fritz these days. Don't you think it's time to 'upgrade' from that Commodore 64?

Could not click away from this. Just goes to show that you guys don't have to run all over asia to find new stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAVEuYk5qiw

Better
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQGDEhgu-7E

Mo' Better
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FReGLY2lLuY

Even mo' mo' better
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAU5QSYmUsk

Cheers

***** Jimmy Scott passed away. R.I.P*****

There was none better. A victim of immoral, bottom-dwelling 'music executives', for much of his career. R.I.P. Indeed.

This morning, I am listening to his CD 'All The Way'. As is true of all of his recordings, higly recommended!!

Sad Day.

Cheers

It's unfortunate that any success he had came so late.

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/jun/14/jimmy-scott-five-great-performances-jazz-legend

Enjoy the music.

Sorry to see that Jimmy Scott passed away. R.I.P.

****it's more important that the reviewer's taste and musical sensibilities coincide with those of the reader and are demonstrated to be consistent over time.****

Exactly right.

Re Korea: When in Asia recently, Korea was one of the stops. It was absolutely amazing how modernized Korea was. There was a sense that the country was running on all cylinders and going full speed ahead; a force to be reckoned with and very impressive.

Re jazz and Asia: soloist on part of the tour was the very impressive Makoto Ozone. Fantastic jazz pianist also at home in the Classical arena:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G22GY6JhZQI&list=PLj0AGSl1lDjNTsQlpKBfkh7v7FPw2SDLc

This is part of a repeat of one of the Asia tour programs back in NYC (hint: there is a frog in the orchestra :-) :

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BxowOVIdnR0&list=PLj0AGSl1lDjNTsQlpKBfkh7v7FPw2SDLc

Youn Sun Nah.

Amazing ability with her voice. I found Koreans to be very passionate and soulful people. They love to sing. In 1976 during my first tour there, a then current hit song, sung by a Korean woman, is the most beautiful song I have heard to this day. Have no idea who she was, or what the song was about. I listened to it several times, almost daily, for 15 months.

If Jazz ever comes out of Asia, it will be Korean!

Cheers

****what distinguishes a good reviewer from a bad one is not wether he reviews music that we happen to like, but wether he is able to express in words how the music touches him/her; and, to do it in a credible and eloquent way*****

This is true, but from a personal point of view, it's more important that the reviewer's taste and musical sensibilities coincide with those of the reader and are demonstrated to be consistent over time.

Cheers

Frogman, your musical observations are most astute. As you pointed out, she did many takes before she selected the one that's on CD, which was the best one; although the alternate takes were quite interesting as well.

My PC is on the fritz, but I'll try to post on a friend's machine.

Enjoy the music.

The theme of what is good or not keeps coming up in different guises; as expected and as it should. Just as with the music itself, what distinguishes a good reviewer from a bad one is not wether he reviews music that we happen to like, but wether he is able to express in words how the music touches him/her; and, to do it in a credible and eloquent way. It's never fair to discredit a reviewer without first making and understanding that distinction; imo.

O-10, loved the a Youn Son Nah clip. What a voice! Luscious and very sexy in some very unusual ways; and technically excellent. She straddles a fine line just short of affectation with a nice combination of credibility (when singing in English) and some obviously Asian influences in her vocal inflections and overall sensibility. When I first listened to the clip one of the things that came to mind was "her intonation and accuracy are so good that she probably did many different takes and used some editing to get a good complete version". Nope, she can really do it!:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t2Kki-mx7uw

Anyone familiar with the folk music of that part of the world will hear that influence in this performance. I think it's amazing, if perhaps an acquired taste for some:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dVehcCuwZeA

"Alternate groove" indeed; and a good one. Thanks for sharing.

The theme of what is good or not keeps coming up in different guises; as expected and as it should. Just as with the music itself, what distinguishes a good reviewer from a bad one is not wether he reviews music that we happen to like, but wether he is able to express in words how the music touches him/her; and, to do it in a credible and eloquent way. It's never fair to discredit a reviewer without first making and understanding that distinction; imo.

O-10, loved the a Youn Son Nah clip. What a voice! Luscious and very sexy in some very unusual ways; and technically excellent. She straddles a fine line just short of affectation with a nice combination of credibility (when singing in English) and some obviously Asian influences in her vocal inflections and overall sensibility. When I first listened to the clip one of the things that came to mind was "her intonation and accuracy are so good that she probably did many different takes and used some editing to get a good complete version". Nope, she can really do it!:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t2Kki-mx7uw

Anyone familiar with the folk music of that part of the world will hear that influence in this performance. I think it's amazing, if perhaps an acquired taste for some:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dVehcCuwZeA

"Alternate groove" indeed; and a good one. Thanks for sharing.

O-10:

Good reviewers are hard to find. The best source I know of these days in 'The All Music Guide to Jazz'. It's out of print, but there is an internet site. I prefer the book. They can still be had at Amazon or other book sellers online.

My favorite reviewer there is Scott Yanow. We seem to be on the same wavelength. I assume all Jazz fans have this book, if not, get it!

The most important thing about AMG reviews, is that they state the type of Jazz the artist plays. So a 5-Star rating for a free Jazz album, would not interest me. Also nice short synopsis of each artist.

Back in the day I trusted a few guys at 'Stereo Review'. The Amazon reviews can be helpful, if there are enough so that you can seperate the serious from the idiots and the fans.

Listened to MJQ last night. "Fontessa" and "Django". Is there better Jazz for late night? They define sophistication!

Listening to Wes Montgomery now. "Full House" Live from a small club in Berkeley. With Miles' rhythm section. I have never heard Wes this way. They, the rhythm section, seem to bring out the best in everyone they play with. Remember Art Pepper? Johnny Griffin almost stole the show.

Begs the question, was it Miles or his Rhythm Section? :)

Cheers