Rok, you hit upon my favorite tune by my favorite male vocalist, his songs come to life; sometimes they're like slices of my life, and at other times they bring back memories. One of his funniest tunes was "Street Hustlers Blues"; that corner he sang about, was even the same when I passed it after driving to "Chi Town" in my brand new "Duece".
Milt Jackson is one of the few artists who are so select that I can count them on one hand, and still have fingers left; they're the ones I can't find a bad LP or CD by in my collection. He takes on more different colors than a chameleon; that's why so many people like to record with him, he makes whoever he records with sound better.
While I like that "ethereal" sound of the MJQ, this is the first time I realized that's what it was. That ethereal sound is the reason they've been chosen for many movie soundtracks.
Lately, I'm enjoying my collection a lot more; especially after being forced to listen to the current crop of jazz musicians for days on end, on FM radio; it sure feels good being back to normal.
Enjoy the music.
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O-10:
*****Miles was just the opposite, but he sure could blow that trumpet. Just a little trivia that I've been exposed to over the years.*****
That little trivia is a major component of what makes Jazz so fascinating.
Today's Listen:
Lou Rawls -- AT LAST
His best ever? I think so. Includes duets with Dianne Reeves and Ray Charles. David "Fathead" Newman and Stanley Turrentine lend support. Great tune selection. Outstanding recording quality.
Oscar Peterson Trio + Milt Jackson -- VERY TALL
Sort of like MJQ with new personnel. Nice playing, but they lack that ethereal sound of MJQ that I love so much.
Cheers |
I heard an hour long casual interview of Billy Eckstine, and it was the most impressive interview I've ever heard. I never thought about a musicians education, or ability to utilize the English Language in order to express themselves; but Mr. Eckstine's facility with the language indicated a formal education that included more than music. Miles was just the opposite, but he sure could blow that trumpet. Just a little trivia that I've been exposed to over the years.
The most entertaining discussions are about "Nahlins" when Louis was a young man; they always include the "cathouses" and nicknames. When you hear Dr. John using those nicknames in his songs, he didn't just make some of them up, they represent real characters in New Orleans. I can't think of any of them right now, but they would have you crackin up. The discussions I heard came from Lincoln Center, so maybe I can look them up
Enjoy the music.
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O-10:
I don't get an all-Jazz station at my location, but, I can imagine what you are talking about with the word 'sameness'.
Another source for hearing music and getting a history lesson is cable TV. No one has mentioned it. On my TWC provider there are a lot of channels just devoted to music of all genres. Several of them Jazz. The channel name serves as a warning for the 'smooth' and 'contemporary'. I go for the 'Classic' i.e. real stuff.
The classical channels are a wealth of information about the music and composers. Same as the Jazz Channels.
Cheers |
O-10:
Jazz on radio: Yesterday was 'Big Band Sunday' on the local pbs station. They play mostly music from in and around the war years.
Yesterday they featured Billy Eckstine. Eckstine also played trumpet, until Dizzy arrived on the scene. Then quietly changed to valve trombone. :) What a talent. His orchestra has to have had the most illustrious lineup ever. Dizzy said that even as a big band, they played Bop. Dizzy, Miles and Fats on trumpet!!!
Also on the program was 'Sidney Bechet and his New Orleans FeetWarmers'. How can you not wanna hear a group with a name like that!! :)
Found out that Pittsburgh has contributed a lot of great players.
Another player was Garnet Clark. Left the US for Paris. He never returned. Died in an asylum in France. 1938 I think.
Cheers |
O-10:
Silver: Great clip of 'Senor Blues'. On the same page I saw a clip for 'Filthy McNasty', one of the great song titles in Jazz. I had just received Silver's "doin' the thing - at the village gate". I think this is the album on which 'Filthy' was first released.
On this clip, Andy Bey, who seems to be everywhere these days, sings. I love it. Have not heard silver sung, since Dee Dee's tribute.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jnc-y2D5RBg
You are right about the time restraints. Esp when you consider this music was recorded for LP. On the positive side, it forced players to say what they had to say, quickly. Pertaining to lesser players, this was sometimes a blessing to the listener.
Thanks for the clip.
Cheers |
Rok, "Nica's" book had in it, the best jazz musicians who ever were or ever will be. I don't know why, I don't know why, I don't know why; but I do know that was no typographical error.
When my computer went on the blink, someone decided to replace the rug in the bedroom, and I had to sleep in the den; to make a long story short, things were so turned around that my only source of music was the jazz station on FM radio.
The beginning wasn't bad, but after awhile the "Jazz" music began to have some kind of "sameness", before long I couldn't stand it. It seems that currently, there is some kind of requirement for the music to be "jazz", that shouldn't be. I've heard this same statement from musicians who played with the one's in Nica's book. Either current "jazz" musicians are limiting their imaginations, or whoever decides who is and who is not a good jazz musician, is limiting things for them. Financial success is a requirement for whatever one does, if one has to make a living at it, and that's one possible answer to this "sameness".
Enjoy the music.
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Unfortunately, the best "Silver's" music you will ever hear are on "You tube". That's because he couldn't take extended solos on his records because of time limitations. His solos on this "Senor Blues", are much longer than on the record. He was one of the very few artists who could have extended his solo for the entire record, and I wouldn't have minded. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lecamup2ykoEnjoy the music. |
good for what ails ya
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt4PyEFlf6Q
Cheers |
O-10:
Mungo Jerry: good driving music.
Dr. John: one of those special artist that never makes a bad record. All of his stuff is very good. I think because he is an authenic artist. He lives in the enviroment that produces the music.
Check out his CD "dis dat or da udder". Not a weak track in sight.
BTW, anyone into Shaped Note singing? I love it.
Cheers |
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O-10:
****I can feel Horace Silver's presence in this music, that's just how much of a difference, a great leader makes in the music*****
Of all recent losses, his death truly sadden me. Almost as if I had known him. In Nica's book, his first wish was for immortality. I think he really loved his music life. It showed in his performances.
Over-used word, but he was a true Giant.
Cheers |
O-10:
****That's the story of my life, "I was in the right place at the wrong time".*****
No guts no glory! You must seize the moment! Did you tell her you knew Miles? :)
Cheers |
O-10:
****I've done this a number of times, and added considerably to my collection by doing so. Occasionally, I've added brand new musicians, but primarily it was old musicians who I thought, I already had their greatest recordings.*****
My only problem with youtube clips is that, while I may love the clip, I have to think, can I listen to an entire CD of this music. A little, of some music, goes a long way.
Cheers |
O-10:
*****Over the years, I have discovered there are great leaders, and great sidemen; when a great "sideman" makes a record makes a record without one of the great leaders he's recorded with over the years, it falls flat. *******
Truer words were never spoken!! It's amazing how often you mention stuff that I happened to be thinking of, along the same lines.
It's why some people that I declare noise makers, can be brilliant when playing as sideman to other artist. I can even think of quite a few Blue Note types. I won't call names.
As always, you have the insight of a true 'aficionado'.
Cheers
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Tom Harrell is one of the great ones! Besides the records I own of him playing with Phil Woods I've got, and easily recommend, 'Time's Mirror', 'Paradise', & 'Live At The Vanguard'. There's one that I own that's always been a dichotomy for me; 'Wise Children'. It's the only record of his that I own where he seems to be playing in a different style of Jazz style. kind of that modern Soul/Jazz (for lack of a better term). The record features tunes with Diane Reeves, Claudia Acuna, Jane Monheit, and Cassandra Wilson. It's good but I'll admit it's my least-played Harrell record EXCEPT FOR....the title song Wise Children. It stands alone on the record. It's one of the most beautiful and heart-breaking songs I've ever heard. I always hear it as an ode to 9/11. it's not referred to as such anywhere on the album but the cover is a painting that to my mind suggests the Towers. I'm listening to it as I type, God, it has such a sense of tragic gravitas to it. If you have an iTunes account, go pick up the tune for $.99 and hear for yourself! |
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"Carmen Jones": I had recently befriended a young soldier who was about the same age as me, and we decided to see the movie "Carmen Jones". When we got to the theater, standing out front, was one of the most beautiful girls I have ever seen; she was dressed in a tight fitting, white "Carmen Jones" dress; that was a full dress that fitted tight, and flared at the bottom, it revealed a perfect figure.
Instantly, we both had the same idea, so we proceeded to make ourselves acquainted. When she talked to me, her eyes were on him. After I noticed his resemblance to "Harry Belefonte", I could see that I didn't stand a chance; I was witnessing love at first sight. During the movie, they couldn't keep their eyes off one another long enough to see the flick.
That's the story of my life, "I was in the right place at the wrong time".
Enjoy the music.
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Rok, I never took the the time to estimate "Regina Carter" one way or the other, but for now, she's in the spotlight for me.
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Learsfool:
I surrender. I guess everyone understands it except me.
Cheers |
Rok, I am flabbergasted. I was directly quoting you, not Frogman. Everything Frogman has said is indeed perfectly clear, and what you have said about "nuts and bolts" does not in any way resemble anything he has said. Assuming that you are being serious, clearly you have misunderstood him, but I cannot figure out how, so I guess we will have to drop the subject.
Acman, I don't recall that quote from the Narnia books, but it has been a very long time since I read them, so you are probably right. |
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Rok, I've done this a number of times, and added considerably to my collection by doing so. Occasionally, I've added brand new musicians, but primarily it was old musicians who I thought, I already had their greatest recordings.
Enjoy the music. |
Acman, I can feel Horace Silver's presence in this music, that's just how much of a difference, a great leader makes in the music. Over the years, I have discovered there are great leaders, and great sidemen; when a great "sideman" makes a record makes a record without one of the great leaders he's recorded with over the years, it falls flat. Rather than using any names, because it would appear that I'm putting these great musicians who were sidemen down, I'll allow you to think of examples of this.
Enjoy the music.
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Frogman, you left out just plain stupid. |
Anyone ever go back thru all the posts on this thread and play the clips presented? Some great stuff! I just finished listening to and watching Jesse Cook. Presented by O-10.
Try it sometime.
Cheers |
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Rok, I could continue the silliness and ask you to point out one single statement that I have made that is not defensible, but I will let your ridiculous comment pass and simply say that it is time, once again, for me to take a break from trying to have meaningful dialogue with you; unfortunately (and I mean that) it's simply too difficult and all too often devoid of the only reason that I have bothered to begin with. The issue of N&B is a prime example of why its so difficult. That you still think that I have not made it perfectly and absolutely clear what I have meant by the use of the term is really beyond my understanding. There can only be two reasons why this may be: 1. It's one more example of the common tactic to obfuscate the issue when you, yourself, are the one who makes an indefensible statement. Or 2. You have so little understanding of both the particulars of and the general conceptual premise that the term N&B addresses that you truly can't see what's right in front of you. It appears to be true that ignorance is bliss for some.
Anyway, I am sure I will be checking in again some time. Until then, Happy Listening and Happy 4th.
Cheers. |
I may have underestimated this young lady.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1257690
Cheers |
O-10:
Interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDO1SL-gj98
Cheers |
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O-10:
The Nicholas Brothers, WOW. How do they do that?? Amazing! The best dancers EVER!!!
I fell in love with Miss Dandrige after seeing the movie CARMEN JONES. If my thought dreams could have been seen, my mom would have washed my mind out with lye soap. What a beauty she was. Went to sleep a many a night, with her on my mind.
Thanks for the clips.
Cheers |
Learsfool:
*****I grant you the use of your term as you want to use it - that's not the issue *****
Thank you. That's an important point.
**** I know of no musician who would say "playing music in accordance with some musical theory, and that alone, can make a player great." This is absurd on the face of it, no musician would ever say that.*****
Aboslutely true!! I agree with you. Well, one might. :)
***** What we do not understand is that you really do seem to think that many do?? ******
AHA!! now we get to the core of the problem. This is an example of The Frogman's Jedi Mind Tricks. He makes a statement, finds it cannot be defended, and now, all at once it's MY statement. I do not think this!! I use N&Bs to sum up what I feel THE FROGMAN thinks.
He said as much when we talked about the clip with some trumpet player and Phil Woods. I can't quote him, but I came away with the idea that he thought the trumpet solo to be the 'perfect' bebop solo. I thought it was noise.
This is the clip where I pointed out the obvious, that Woods is Fat.
So Learsfool, you are preaching to the Choir. You need to ask The Frogman to clarify / explain Nuts and Bolts. It's his term. Once he does that, we can start all over again. Perhaps, I will then have to rename "nuts and Bolts" Jazz.
In the mean time, lets remember Ellington's " It don't mean a thing, if it ain't got that certain something" :)
Cheers |
Hi guys - just caught up to all the posts today. Rok, I guess you now want to move on, but before we do, I honestly, along with Frogman, am even more confused about what you think you are talking about with your "nuts and bolts" comment. I grant you the use of your term as you want to use it - that's not the issue - the issue is it is not at all clear. I know of no musician who would say "playing music in accordance with some musical theory, and that alone, can make a player great." This is absurd on the face of it, no musician would ever say that. What we do not understand is that you really do seem to think that many do?? Could you give us a specific example?? I am not trying to attack your position, I am honestly trying to understand it, as it seems to make no sense.
Far be it from me to diss Central Texas, by the way. I am very familiar with it, having grown up there. I was merely describing the classical music scene as compared to the country/alternative rock scene down there. |
O-10:
I have this one and I think you might like it also.
Folkways: A vision shared. A Tribute to Woody Guthrie and Leadbelly.
Awesome performances by all. From Bruce Springsteen to Sweet Honey in the Rock.
One of my favorites: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZtIq8I6hlo
Cheers |
Rok, I thought long and hard, no I don't remember any fat people, even as much as they ate then; while food was the biggest thing in life in the country, there was always a lot of work to be done. Our existence is so much easier now, even if it is much more complex. Yes, I recall walking barefooted down dirt roads, and how good that soft dirt felt under bare feet. I also recall some of the most beautiful fragrances wafting by, they smelled better than any cologne or perfume. Where they came from I don't know, whether they came from wild flowers, bushes, trees or whatever, these different beautiful fragrances wafted by quite regularly in the country. Sorry, I don't remember any music in Winona, but I do remember the music from that time, and here is some of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMR3OnbmWkA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xovmaG9S0sQAlthough Dorothy Dandrige is more colorful, I think this one by Ella Mae Morse was the one we heard on the radio. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ortOAiClE34Enjoy the music. |
O-10:
Winona, Mississippi: I have been thru there a million times. Mostly on my way to Huntsville, Alabama, when I was in the Army. I think US 82 crosses I-55 there. I also have to go thru there to visit Kin folks in West Point and Tupelo.
The clip, 'Country Girl', I have on my CD of the Chocolate drops. I have their CD "Leaving Eden". It's pretty good. I leave it out on my desk so I can play it often.
Never had churned butter, but many biscuits. Have primed a few pumps and gathered firewood in my time. No greater place to be a child. What's better than running in the dirt barefooted?
Did you realize that there were no fat people then?
Cheers |
****No one is trying to "impress". I nor Learsfool (I am confident in stating) need this forum to "impress";*****
No one could get my comments on artist vs consumer wrong, unless one did it on purpose. Lets move on. I concede all points to you.
Cheers |
No, I never heard of the "Carolina Chocolate Drops" until you mentioned them, but they make my kind of music. After going to "You tube" I got an obsession to go south and look for a "Country Girl". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVIaiADsyYoThey were walking along a road with a tall metal container that had two handles in the foreground, and it took me awhile to figure out what it was, "a churn", that's what they made butter with. Have you ever had churned butter on hot biscuits? That's going back to a time when they didn't even have electricity where we went, Winona Mississippi. All I remember is a big lone house in the middle of nowhere on a dirt road; but that's the old south "dirt roads", they didn't know what concrete was. I find it amazing that the south has changed so much, that a lot of people are finding country living preferable to the city; I can understand that. Enjoy the music. |
Not clear at all, Rok; especially given some of your other comments. Anyway, this is, once again, a case of "Mars and Venus"; some things are irreconcilable.
No one is trying to "impress". I nor Learsfool (I am confident in stating) need this forum to "impress"; actually practicing (no pun intended) what we preach is the best way to do that and we do it on a regular basis. What we try to do is offer well-intended insights into aspects of music and the music scene that are not readily available to everyone as a way for those open to the idea to expand their knowledge and appreciation. You seem intent on creating your own personal reality about what the music scene is and challenge whatever doesn't jibe with your reality. Anyway, no sweat. O-10 was correct in part with an earlier comment:
Chaqun a son gout!
Cheers |
***** by very clearly suggesting that you "something was wrong" with Miles because he did attend Juilliard; and absurd comment; perhaps you were joking. Please clarify.****
It was obviously said in Jest. You and Learsfool need to lighten up. Chill. Put on a little MJQ!
Cheers |
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O-10:
BTW, your Marantz is probably the most beautiful of all their CD players.
Cheers |
O-10:
***Unless you have traveled the south on two lane black top roads by "Trailways" bus, you ain't seen the south. ***
Ain't that the truth! My mode was Greyhound. I remember going from Ft Campbell, KY to Ft Bragg, NC in the wee hours of the morning. You are spot on about the cabins in the middle of nowhere. Trees forever. I thought, how could someone live this isolated. In truth, they were probably having a bluegrass jam session as I rode by. :)
I will have to get the Southern Comfort. Have you ever heard of the of the group, 'Carolina Chocolate Drops'?
Cheers |
O-10:
I agree about Marantz. This is my third Marantz player currently in my rack. I just got the CD6005. It appears to be the SA8005, without the SACD function. Same DAC, and it has the USB input.
So far I am very pleased with it.
I also have the SA8001(sacd) and the CD5004.
Cheers |
****BTW, what happened with that on-line music course you were considering? You should do it. ****
I am still reading my book. Very interesting. But I have no interest in becoming a musician. I may be lacking in my N&B knowledge, but I know Jazz when I hear it!! :)
Cheers |
**** but, with due respect, when it comes to some of these topics, you don't know what you are talking about. If you did, you wouldn't have to ask some of the questions that you do. ****
I don't HAVE TO ask any questions. Asking questions, and the answers, do not make me enjoy my music more. Just curious.
I know exactly what I am talking about. I always respect your facts. Your opinion is actually not as important as mine. Because I am a member of the most important group in the entire music equation. The Consumer! You guys don't impress us, you don't eat. Just the facts.
Cheers |
****Don't you understand how ridiculous that comment is? Have you any idea how many great musicians there are in the jazz and the classical world who are assholes? And why are you denigrating all Rock musicians?****
OK class, lets read every word very carefully.
I said, "I can't imagine". That is different from saying "Every musician is in fact". I don't know all these people, and neither do you, so I am basing this or media I have seen, heard, or read about the artist. But please, do feel free to submit a list of Famous, Great, Jazz players, who are also Assholes.
I trash Rock 'musicians' because they destroyed Rock & Roll.
Cheers |
***you are not a particularly good communicator via what you write. Example:****
Wrong answer! I am an excellent communicator. The problem is, you have this habit of reading what you wish I had said, rather than what I actually said.
****Nuts and Bolts is a term I use to reflect an attitude. And that is, that playing music in accordance with some musical theory, and that along, can make a player great.****
***Huh! If you mean this then it would go counter to everything that you have said previously about the subject.***
Allow me to say Huh!!! I am telling you that when I use the term N&B, I am referring to an attitude YOU have. YOU, not me. So how does the statement run counter to anything I have said? After all, it's you that champions all these school trained noise makers, not me. |
****Why not submit a list, for us aficionados, of GREAT Jazz players, who were great, BECAUSE, they went to Juilliard.****
I am almost speechless. I have no idea how or why you arrived at the conclusion that anyone has ever suggested this. All I can think of in response is the scene in Shawshank Redemption where Andy goes to speak to the warden after having been given proof that he can use to show that he is innocent of the crime; after several attempts at trying to get the warden to consider what he is saying he says "How can you be so obtuse?"
:-)
Now, PLEASE try to explain to me WITH EXAMPLES/QUOTES what has been said so far to suggest that a jazz player can be great BECAUSE he attended Juilliard. You, on the other hand, started this whole Juilliard mess by very clearly suggesting that you "something was wrong" with Miles because he did attend Juilliard; and absurd comment; perhaps you were joking. Please clarify. |
Rok, c'mon. We don't have a habit of misquoting you nor of shooting down anything. The truth is that when discussing these topics you are not a particularly good communicator via what you write. Example:
****Nuts and Bolts is a term I use to reflect an attitude. And that is, that playing music in accordance with some musical theory, and that along, can make a player great.****
Huh! If you mean this then it would go counter to everything that you have said previously about the subject.
First of all, "nuts and bolts" is not an attitude. From the first time that I used that term I have been very clear about its intended meaning: study of the rudiments of musicianship and being an instrumentalist or vocalist; music theory, rhythm, the mechanics of playing an instrument (including one's voice) etc. ALL players, regardless of genre, have to do that in order to achieve greatness. So, for the sake of clarity and for a discussion to not to turn into an incoherent mess, we should stick to that meaning of the term.
****I cannot imagine any musician, other than so-called Rock musicians, being anything other than nice human beings.****
Don't you understand how ridiculous that comment is? Have you any idea how many great musicians there are in the jazz and the classical world who are assholes? And why are you denigrating all Rock musicians?
As I wrote that comment it became clear to me what the problem is in these discussions. We all have a right to our opinions; but, we don't have a right to present them as fact without being able to back them up. I have said this before, I admire your passion and your inquisitiveness (as of late); but, with due respect, when it comes to some of these topics, you don't know what you are talking about. If you did, you wouldn't have to ask some of the questions that you do.
BTW, what happened with that on-line music course you were considering? You should do it.
Cheers. |
The Frogman / Learsfool:
Why not submit a list, for us aficionados, of GREAT Jazz players, who were great, BECAUSE, they went to Juilliard.
Cheers |
