Jazz for aficionados


Jazz for aficionados

I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.

Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.

The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".

"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.

While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.

Enjoy the music.
orpheus10
CHRISTIAN MCBRIDE:

He makes good points, some of which I made 2000 posts ago. Remember I talked about the 'danger', he said the same thing, when he spoke of the 'critics' misleading the public. Just used different words.

Does all / most of FREE, and AVANT-GARDE Jazz, fall under the category of BULLSHIT?

Are there Bullshitters among Classical music Composers?

Cheers
Today's Listen:

Modern Jazz Quartet -- ARTISTRY OF THE MJQ

Early MJQ. Sonny Rollins appears on 4 of the 15 tracks. Since MJQ has never made a bad record, you know it's gotta be great. No Bullshit!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOYYaBBJr_E

Cheers
When/IF/ I get to heaven I'm going to ask God to spend my
vacation time in the section with this band.

Lester Young on tenor
Clifford Brown on horn
Eric Dolphly on flute
Mingus on double bass
Joe Pass on guitar
Toots T, on harp
Leader- J.S. Bach on B-3

Rok, "I'll Take You There"; this belongs in the category of good music.

"Disco Lady"; those were the days my friend, I thought they would never end.

"Rocksteady"; time to get on the dance floor.

"Do You Think I'm Sexy"; those disco days were a blast.

"Passion"; this one has the "Miami Vice" mystique.

Rok, variety is the spice of life; that play list had a lot of spice.

Enjoy the music.

Frogman, if this was a military operation, I would consider you second in command, and expect you to grab the BS posts by the horns.

When I spend time and effort researching material to move this conversation forward, and plumbing the depths of significant posts, only to have it all ignored while everyone goes off on a BS post that's not even related to this thread; I find that awfully disconcerting.

Enjoy the music.
Agreed, further explanation would be good. What is BS about the thread, especially as things stand now? As the OP, perhaps you should "grab the bull(shit) by the horns". No?
The OP LIVES!!! I thought Miles' Aunt had done you in.

*****I have no intention of participating in a BS thread. When this thread gets back to it's original purpose and quality of posts, I will return.******

This statement demands further explaination. What is BS about the thread?

Cheers

Frogman, I see that you are giving direction, and guidance; that is good. Just as a good musician will not play a BS solo, I have no intention of participating in a BS thread. When this thread gets back to it's original purpose and quality of posts, I will return.

I like the quality of your posts Rok, they're constantly improving.

Enjoy the music.
The clip of David Murray: He did seem to be stuck. The tune did nothing for me. Good to know I can recognize BS when I hear it, even if I cannot explain it. I wonder if he is the reason I never warmed to the WSQ as I thought I would. I will have to revisit them.

I only have one CD by Murray(saxmen). Played it when I bought it a few decades ago, and have not played it since. His association with Shepp and Pullen did not mean anything to me then. But, as you pointed out, he does have a large following.

Thanks for the analysis of the McLean tune. For some reason he seems to fly under the radar. Great player.

Question to The Frogman: Are there any BS Composers in Classical Music / Opera?? Names please. We must have names! If any, I would assume they would be 20th Century guys.

Cheers
Great clip of Jackie McLean, a classic non-bullshitter. First of all, fabulous contemporary alto sound. Re the subject of BS: pay attention to the shape of first six notes of the melody. A very simplistic analysis is that the third note of the melody is a wider interval (higher) than the first two, then the fifth goes back down and the sixth slightly higher; that's the shape of the tune. Importantly, and what gives the following solo musical integrity is that practically everything he plays relates somehow to that shape or to the length of that little phrase, and he goes on to expand on that and spontaneously compose a solo that has musical relevance and is not "bullshit".
Frogman, yes I see that now, I should have read it better first time. Senility is a bitch.
A "bullshit" solo in musician parlance is a solo that doesn't stay within the music's context. It is usually characterized by overplaying and being self-indulgent with too many notes, too fast, inappropriate effects, or trying too hard to be "hip" while not "saying" anything. Often, this is done to hide the fact that the player doesn't have a good command of the tune's harmonic changes and simply plays a lot of shit that doesn't fit the harmony; or, at best, fits the harmony but is not fully developed as a spontaneous composition. A great solo always keeps a connection to the melody of the tune and simply builds on it. I know he has many fans, but for me a great example of a chronic bullshitter is David Murray:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KrXIQ0_ogK0
Because that's not what I said. That was your premise, not mine. I thought my previous comment was pretty clear.
****who decides what is good and what is bad?****

We each do. Some listeners just want simple pleasure from the listening experience without room for being challenged or taken outside a certain comfort zone and that is absolutely fine. For others, music is a bottomless font of possibilities and potential new discoveries. They listen with an open mind and a certain amount of respect for the opinion of others especially those who have more experience. The process is no different than determining what is a "bullshit" solo. When a musician of the stature of Jackie McLean says "that is a bullshit solo", even if it is not apparent to me right away I try to understand what he is hearing that I am not. Being a good and astute listener (and musician) demands an open mind and commitment to the idea that there is always more to learn.

Bullshit and non-bullshit clips later :-)
Obviously, but who decides what is good and what is bad?
One mans meat is another's poison as also has been said before.
You are correct. "Good and Bad Music" just about says it all. Has that quote been taken away from The Duke??

Cheers
Today's listen:

Jackie McLean Quintet -- DYNASTY

Features his son Rene. I loved this. Great Sax playing. Sort of in your face.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY02ZL3Qrfo

The liner notes read like a Soap opera or a Police blotter.

McLean plays with Mingus
McLean gives Mingus his two week notice during a break at a gig in Cleveland.
Mingus gets mad and punches McLean in the mouth
McLean pulls knife and attempts to stab Mingus
Someone grabs his arm and he only cuts Mingus
Mingus leaves him stranded in Cleveland
Mclean Pawns horn to get back to NYC
Blakey asks McLean to join his band
McLeans says I have no horn, it's owned by Mingus
Blakey buys McLean a horn
McLean leaves on tour with Blakey, did not tell Mingus
Mingus comes to McLean's house banging on door
McLeans wife threatens to call Police.
Mingus sends telegram to McLean in Pittsburgh, on tour with Blakey, threatening to dump him in the East River.

Damn!!

He did say that Blakey taught him to play coherent, non-BS,. solos. Compared Blakey to a coach, and Mingus to a Drill Instructor. Said Mingus would have had even more success if he had respected his musicians.

Question to The Frogman. What is a BS solo? And can you submit a clip with an example of one? I can only hope and pray that it won't be one of my favorite tunes. :)

Cheers
A quote attributed to several different famous musicians, whoever it was who really said "there's only two kinds of music: good and bad" first was exactly right. I liked every one of the clips. Regardless of genre, honesty is the key; second even to execution. Even so, when the honesty part is not always obvious, if the execution is on such a high level, the music is good. I think George Benson is probably second only to Herbie Hancock in being able to bring such a high level or execution (jazz player sensibility) and honesty to the "pop" table that the results are great. Great guitar, great singer, great production values in that slick 70's kind of way. Same for Manhattan Transfer, but in a more (sorry) "white" kind of way.

Mars/Venus time. Mahalia and Pops: simple (in the good sense), uncluttered and from the heart; what can be said about perfection in a particular genre?

Thanks for the clips.
Mapman:

My Father would have been about the same age. He was more into the Delta Blues and R&B. But my Mother and Aunts were crazy about all the big Bands. Goodman, Ellington, Basie, Miller and the Dorsey Boys. And of course, Harry James was the 'bees knees'! I remember reading the labels on all the 78's.

Goodman is a seminal figure in Jazz for many different reasons. One of the good guys!!

Cheers
Rok, My father who would have been in his 20s at the time of that concert falls into that category. He grew up poor and relatively uneducated though brought up on good ethics on a farm in rural Pennsylvania. Benny Goodman was the only jazz performer I recall him having an interest in. He was not a record buyer but did like music and had a record of that performance which was my first exposure to big band music as a kid in the 60's as I recall.
I may be nuts, in fact I know I am, but two jazz musicians that have received great acclaim sound unable to keep time
to my ears.
Benny Goodman and Diana Krall.
Today's Listen:

Benny Goodman -- LIVE AT CARNEGIE HALL

Historic. Goodman's attempt to bring the great unwashed into the Jazz fold. Problem is, I think he succeeded!! Numbers do count.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq6mwozI-Ms

Now you know why it's called Swing. Cause it do!! Why do I have two of these. Different album covers and order of tunes, but the same concert. Have I been snookered?

Cheers
The Soul Train Clip: I think Quincy just liked to be around young babes errrr I mean young musicians. Maybe he thought they kept him young. What ridiculous hairdos!! Never did like the Brothers Johnson. I felt that era was sort of sterile, music wise.

Cheers
"He brings an accomplished jazz musicinan's sensibility to the r&b table which"

Excellent point. Sort of like the session musicians that backed a lot of the MOTOWN groups. No garage bands there.

I have many of his records on LP including 'Sounds'. I remember where I bought "The Dude". At a Record store in Nuremberg, Germany. There are quite a few CDs / LPs that I remember that way. Don't know why.

"I referred to Q Jones in the past tense a couple of times"

I refer to them all in the present tense. To me, they are still with us, and will always be with us.

Thanks for the clip and the breakdown on his music.

Cheers
I referred to Q Jones in the past tense a couple of times; obviously those were typos he is still with us and doing great work.
You are correct, Quincy Jones is awesome and an amazing talent. Great orchestrator, composer and band leader/conductor. Great examples of this are Sinatra's "Live At The Sands", his work with the Basie band and movie scores like "The Pawnbroker" among many other accomplishments; not to mention something like 25 (?!?!) Grammy's. My undertaning is that he was also a pretty good trumpet player.

****"Among his awards, Jones was named by Time Magazine as one of the most influential jazz musicians of the 20th century."****

I would have to agree, but with a caveat. He was definitely a jazz musician and he was one of the most influential musicians of the 20th century; but, his greatest influence was not in jazz. Quincy's greatest talent and influence (and not to take anything away from all his other talents) was as a producer; particularly in the r&b genre. As a r&b producer he probably has no equal. His work on his own and Michael Jackson's (among others) records was pretty amazing if you are into that kind of stuff (I like it). He brings an accomplished jazz musicinan's sensibility to the r&b table which combined with a masterful understanding of what is technically possible in a recording studio yielded results which are pretty amazing.

I really like "The Dude". I also like "Sounds,,,,and Stuff Like That". One of my favorite cuts on that one is Herbie Hancocks' "Tell Me A Bedtime Story" on which he takes Herbie's improvised solo and multitracks the transcribed piano solo with a violin "section" (one player). His use of voices and horns to create textures is amazing. I particularly like how he uses the rhythmic handclaps as practically the only changing, and tension building, aspect of the music which, with the exception of Herbies's solo, is pretty repetitive. First it's one handclap per measure, then on two and four, then on every beat, then on upbeats and downbeats. It's kind of a cliche, but he truly uses the studio as his instrument. If you like that kind of slick studio sensibility, it's great stuff.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=utuIBp-YwSc
While browsing my CDs today came across this CD by Quincy Jones. I love this music. I think he is awesome!! Highly intelligent and an unbeliveable talent!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF-3Ru2N8eQ

I know he is the greatest something, but just what, I can't answer. Hell, he even made Rap sound interesting.

I got this from Wiki. High praise, but it causes my BS alarm to start quivering. Although, he was one of the players that led me to Jazz.

From Wiki:
"Among his awards, Jones was named by Time Magazine as one of the most influential jazz musicians of the 20th century."

Could this be true? Perhaps The Frogman can enlightened us.

Cheers
Frogman, with the US life-expectancy on a steady downward turn, you'll be lucky to still be breathing at 86.
I read an article lately with a graph showing the age convergence points of the average bodily pesticide load of German and American males.
Lines crossed at 78 for the former and 23 for the later.
FDA allowance for pesticides level on Organic veggies are higher that EU standards for normal status .
Unbelievable! 86 yrs old and still playing like that; I'll be glad if I can still pick my nose at 86. Nice clip.
Interesting piece tonight on the BBC World News "witness" segment.

They interviewed Jimmy Cobb, the drummer on KOB. He said that the KOB session was just about done in one take. The tape was only stopped once, on 'freddie Freeloader'.

He said they did not anticipate the reception from the public, that KOB received.

Cobb is in his 80's but looked as if he could be in his 50's or 60's. Nice to see a Jazz guy have a long and apparently healthy life. He is still playing.

They also interviewed the guy that created the phone service centers in India, to which all calls for assistance from the U.S., are now routed. I would have thought this guy would be in Jail, for crimes against humanity, or at least on the run from Interpol!!

Cheers
Chicago's AACM (Association For The Advancement Of Creative Musicians) has been on the forefront of the modern jazz movement for quite some time. Glad you all enjoyed the clip.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_for_the_Advancement_of_Creative_Musicians
Thanks Frogman! That was great, although so many of my heroes are getting old.

Rok, I am impressed. Keep at the Threadgill, there is a lot there. Not always easy to see.
I have this one by Roscoe Mitchell. Tracks named 'Sound 1' and 'Sound 2' and two named 'Ornette', should tell you what to expect. I know this is good stuff because Stereo Review said it was, and they never steered me wrong. I just have to grow into it. It's a lot more 'accessible' today than it was when I bought it. I'm getting there!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJST92-UNVE

Have several by Threadgill. Still coming to grips with him also.

Very interesting clip. When you can see the music being created it does make a person appreciate it more. I had no idea these guys were still alive!

I expect this sort of thing from NYC. Never considered Chicago much of a cutting edge Jazz town. I noticed it's recorded on the great Blues label, Delmark.

Cheers
New for 2015. And an interesting peek into the creative process of jazz; featuring, among others, the greatest living jazz drummer:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=edLWmyTegvk
Orpheus, or anyone else, do you know more about organ and piano player Billy Gardner? The other day I was listening some Chaarlie Rouse album, and piano player was great. It is the same man that played with Grant Green and Lou Donaldson as well, but little is known about him. Could someone tell more, please?
Link, if somebody is interested...
http://youtu.be/HfVmSOlw4WA
http://youtu.be/_I3WXYncRrA
Thanks
And as I'm loving the tune as done on "BATAT," here's a nice version of "Stolen Moments" as interpreted by Ahmad Jamal .....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HClD5wy7K5s
You're welcome. Recorded in 1961 and close to the magic year 1959; an amazing time for jazz. 1961 was also the year that Oliver Nelson's "Blues And The Abstract Truth" was recorded. It's interesting to note how much Hubbard's solo on "Society Red" sounds like his solo on "Stolen Moments" from "BATAT" as an indication of where he was at in his development as an improviser. Dexter was at his peak and sounds incredible. Glad you liked it.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RbaGDDbpcQ4
Very cool Frogman ... Very cool indeed. Thanks for sharing this awesome tune with us !
I am stoked as we enter into 2015 and await the Jazz offerings for this new year. The last few years have been especially excellent for Jazz music. Happy Listening All!