I almost always enjoy Rod Stewart's take on things. That makes him a good artist to me. Plus his voice is a unique instrument in of itself, especially in his prime. So he brings a lot of "it" factor to the table that most would be challenged to match.
Jazz for aficionados
Jazz for aficionados
I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Enjoy the music.
I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Enjoy the music.
31,720 responses Add your response
Question for my learned betters to include Rok. I just saw another dis comment on here on how terrible Rod Steward is on his American Songbook Records, which seems to be the general opinion in all quarters. I grew up on this music, its in my bones. I have all of them and I think his love for this music is patently obvious and that he does a great job on them, more love in him for the tunes than many who made them famous . Feel free to 'dis me. |
Learsfool, no not really. I was just repeating what the only pro musician I know around here, a percussionist, said. Also, I have heard German musicians from the R.I.A.S orch, which was a hell of a band,say the blending talent you have was the hardest thing to master so I just thought you would be better yet. At what they are best at, notably Sibelius, the Minnesota is unbeatable right now. I only wish I could hear them in Havana in May !! |
The soloing on Moanin' by Morgan and Timmons is just awesome! Those are the details we tend to forget. Morgan is one of my favorite trumpet players. I love the way he bends notes. My next favorite was Blues Walk. On most of my records, it's the aggregate contributions of the individuals that make the whole album. That's true on this record as well, except on the cut "Search For The New Land", it, the composition takes center stage, and the musicians become actors playing their parts in a play. This music was way ahead of it's time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfrJmye2jus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1CilMzT55M Frogman, A professional jazz musician lived in my apartment for 3 months and he never practiced. I wont mention his name because every time it's mentioned, some clown pops out of the woodwork with garbage. In regard to,"If I don't practice for a day, I know it. If I don't practice for two days, the critics know it. And if I don't practice for three days, the audience knows it". For an entire summer, I chauffeured him and his lady friend to gigs at least 3 times a week. We were only at the apartment long enough to take care of the necessities of life, the rest of the time we were on a set, or digin a set. What astounded me more than anything, was when we arrived an hour before show time, and he was introduced to musicians he had never played with before. They would talk this musical gibberish, that meant absolutely nothing to me, "All right Mac, when I come in on the... and hit a chord on the piano, point to the drummer who seemed to know what he was talking about and go "Wham bang". They would do this for an hour, while I watched in fear of every thing turning out lousy. When they played as if they had been together for years, I was all ways truly astonished. Those performances never failed to mesmerize yours truly. Each performance was uniquely different from the last one. I had surgery that summer, and he entertained me during my recuperation time, with stories about his life as a professional jazz musician; that was an unforgettable summer. Rok, Frogman is referring to the summer that my friend the professional musician lived in my apartment. He never practiced or expressed the desire to practice, not only that, but an organ would not have fitted in my apartment. (he played organ since childhood in church) Since he was playing three gigs a week of hard driving improvisational jazz, he didn't even know what he was going to play, it's for certain there was no need for him to practice. I drove him to every gig ( still had the infamous duece), and was mesmerized on each set. The intensity of the music (The dynamic range of live organ can never be recorded) was in stark contrast to him playing with his eyes closed and a sublime look on his face. As you stated, the "No practice" was a straw-man, it's for certain no one could get to that level of proficiency without practicing. I understand Frogmans wishes and desires in regard to old and new music, but it is what it is, although when it comes to live music, you have to like what you can get; that's your only option. Frogman, I'm saying the same thing in both posts; "he never practiced during the summer he lived in my apartment". These are posts from the past that I decided to revive. Enjoy the music. |
Great post, Learsfool; and thanks for being more diplomatic than I was. Rok, I was frankly taken aback by your comment. (of course,THAT has never happened before :-) I didn't expect a proclamation about the superiority of jazz from you who have extolled the genius of great classical composers (the ones you like, anyway). I will try it one more time (time to plant some seeds :-) : You are an avid music lover and should be commended for that, but you are denying yourself a deeper appreciation and enjoyment of music (both genres) by the tendency to be absolutist about some of this stuff. Just a suggestion. |
@Schubert - Since the Minnesota Orchestra does not currently have any horn openings, at least that I am aware of, can I assume that you meant your comment to be a critical one on the quality of the current section?? @Rok - Frogman's reply to your post is absolutely correct. Again, I will try elaborating. As he said, classical music requires the very highest degree of technical proficiency on a consistent basis, far more than is required in jazz. This is NOT to say that classical players are necessarily better musicians, however - only that the ones at the highest level are far better players of their instruments, technically speaking. As Frogman said, even Wynton would not quite be able to cut the job of principal trumpet in a full time symphony orchestra, though he perhaps could have if he had gone that route when he was much younger, as he certainly had the talent. Let me give an example. Sometimes there are French horn parts in big bands, and I am called upon at least a couple of times a season, usually more, to play that style of music in pops shows. Can I swing as easily as a full time big band trumpet player? No. But after a rehearsal (and there is usually only one), I can follow and pick up the style of the lead trumpet player to the point where only my fellow musicians onstage could tell that I don't do it all the time. Remember, the music itself is nowhere near as complicated as a large majority of what I play on a daily basis - the notes are no problem for me, it is simply a matter of getting the style down. Now - could one of those big band trumpet players perform a difficult trumpet part in say a Mahler symphony after one rehearsal? No way in hell, and you and everyone else in the audience would clearly hear it if the attempt was made. I could even sit in with a big band, sight reading a horn part, and you could come to the concert, and I bet that you would not be able to tell that I didn't play with them all the time (though Frogman certainly could, LOL). I would just blend in with my colleagues, and you wouldn't notice (like you would if a big band trumpeter tried sitting in with an orchestral trumpet section). Now one thing I could not do in the jazz setting would be to improvise a solo, so that big band would not have me take one. Well, I could try, I would certainly understand the chord changes, etc., it just wouldn't be very good, I'd be faking my way through. I could sight -read one that had been written out for me; but I couldn't improvise in that idiom on the spot. That's not something I am trained to do. But that is the only aspect of jazz playing that I would not be able to do, and I could actually learn to do it if I applied myself to it for a while (and I mean a long while, not a short time). There are a handful of jazz horn players out there that do it for a living, though, both currently and in the past. If you are curious, look up Julius Watkins, a great from the past. One of the best jazz hornists right now is a Russian guy whose name is Arkady Shilkloper; another is Tom Varner, who has been around longer. Jazz is not inherently any more or less musical than classical is - it is a different type of music making, a different type of expression. |
Mapman, I think you have a great attitude about your choices for music. "Only two kinds, good and bad" Acman3, I will offer some thoughts about old/new styles as you suggested when I have some time. Nice clip of Lockjaw and Griff, BTW. I first heard the two of them side by side as the two tenors in the Frany Boland/Kenny Clarke big band. Awesome players both. |
Rok, with all due respect you could not be more mistaken in both your assertions and your assumptions. No one has suggested that classical music is better than jazz. Both are serious music and each demands different disciplines. The truth is that classical puts a level of technical demands on the player that jazz does not. Even Wynton, accomplished as he is, would not be able to consistently do what the principal trumpet in a major symphony orchestra is required to do. Likewise, Duke playing Scriabin wouldn't sound any more credible than most orchestras playing Mingus. In your eagerness to run to the defense of jazz you fail to see what one of the beauties of jazz is: the fact that great music can be made by a player with RELATIVELY limited (by classical music standards) command of their instrument. It is a music that not only allows a less structured approach to playing, but in some ways requires it. It is not harder to play jazz than to play classical. You obviously don't know just how hard it is (to use one example) to play one single note perfectly in tune and control it all the way from a whisper to a roar. Improvising at a high level is also very difficult and to compare the two disciplines in an attempt to proclaim one to be "better" is silly and, frankly, sophomoric. Once again, one of the many reasons why learning a little more about music is extremely valuable. Nothing wrong with simply enjoying it and relying on what one likes best, but once assertions l like that are made some facts to back them up are needed. |
Our roots certainly have an influence on how we are programmed to respond to things, but there is more to it than just that. You can teach a newer cat a few new tricks. more so usually than an older one, Usually only a few though. I've "programmed" myself to just listen to the music and ignore "genre" or other labels that might be attached, except as a means of categorizing after the fact. I find new music I like a lot everyday in all different genres. I am an older cat so not easy to teach metoo many new tricks but I have always been tuned into music, so that is not so hard. |
Orpheus10, I think you are generally correct about outside influences on musical choices. But FWIW , I never heard a note of Classical music till I was 30, by chance I heard the great Swedish tenor Jussi Bjorling and was instantly converted by the most beautiful thing I had ever heard and have never looked back. I was about 18-19 when rock started , everyone I knew went crazy about it, I hated it and thought it vastly inferior to the big band, American song book music I had grown up on which it displaced ,never looked back on that either. I can't be the only one . |
The is the first time I ever put a plug in for a speaker in a music thread, but as this where the music folks are I feel compelled to. I've been in need of a small, but full range speakers that also can integrate drivers within 6ft for the small condo I've moved to. Two weeks ago underwood wally put the Gallo Classico CL-3 's on here for $1199 shipped. They are SUPERB jazz and classical speakers in all aspects . Been running them 24/7 and they just keep getting better and better, very close to the Gallo 3.5's ! Anyone can PM here for more and just read the synopsis on them in the TAS 2015 which is spot ! And no , I have nothing to do with wally. |
Frogman, whether we agree or disagree, it will not affect your being second in command. From the time we began to hear, our minds began the process in regard to what kind of music we would like. If you lived in the rural south, there's a good possibility you would like C & W. Take your pick of the musical possibilities you would prefer if you lived in a northern city; but my point is, we don't decide independently in regard to our musical preferences, they are programmed. Right now my radio is tuned to 88.7, that's a jazz station, I can hear it quite clearly. If my radio was tuned to a classical station, regardless how clear the signal came in, I would not be able to hear it as well because my mind isn't programmed to receive classical music as well as it is jazz. We can only hear the music our mind is tuned to receive; consequently arguments in regard to different genres of music are pointless when it comes to which is the best. Enjoy the music. |
Apples/Oranges in teh "pure" sense that is. Each has unique characteristics that distinguishes it from the other. No one player is likely to be the best at the things that exemplify each. The reality is that there are many "shades of grey" in-between that bridge the two, as well as other purer genres. Who is the best at each shade of grey? The plot thickens... That's what makes the world go round and help keep it interesting along the way I suppose. I'm still futilely trying to figure it all out. |
I started to bring into discussion the difference between, at least to me, the difference between modern and older jazz styles, but I just don't have the ability. Maybe Frogman can help, although I do realize this is asking a lot, and would fully understand if he choose to avoid it. It may be that these differences make up why some prefer older jazz, and find newer music academic. 1) vibrato slow vs fast 2) scale runs vs angular 3) simple blues head to solo around vs complex music themes I am already in over my head, but doesn't take much. These are just a few of the things I hear. I also hear math and music patterns, but I think that is just me, and a whole different discussion. |
Apples/oranges. Its impossible to quantify the recipe for success in any endeavor that requires a certain level of skill to undertake. That's why its an art not a science. For any theory that relates the two there is bound to be cases out there that disprove it. So not worth getting very worked up about really. But it is worth noting that the two do have one thing in common in that both rely on people in order to exist. At least so far..... |
The gurus make good points, and they should know. However, it seems as if the overall tone is that (1) 'Jazz players aren't GOOD ENOUGH to play classical, and (2) Classical music is somehow SUPERIOR to Jazz. I beg to disagree. I think players like Wynton and Ellington have demonstrated Jazz players can play anything at the highest level.. As far as playing together as a group or section, check out some Ellington, Goodman and Miller. They play together as well as any Classical group. They ARE playing Jazz, so the music calls for different things, but to say they CAN'T play classical? Hmmmmmmmmmmm Can the Berlin Philharmonic play "Hog Calling Blues"? They could if it was written down. But what would it sound like? Ever hear the German Radio Bands try their hand at Jazz? Of the two, Jazz musicians are better musicians. Because what they do is harder, and they don't get any help from a written score and / or Conductors. They are out there alone. As the OP pointed out, you either got it or you don't. A person can learn to do all required of Classical players, by hard work and practice. In Jazz it takes hard work, practice AND that certain something within the person Jazz is Jazz, and Classical is Classical, and Never The Twain Shall Meet. The efforts of MJQ and others, Notwithstanding. And as I said before, Thank God for both, and for the differences. Cheers BTW, my post of the Berlin Cellists, which demonstates certain points of this disccussion was completely ignored. OP, how long will I have to suffer these indignities??? Cheers |
I am fond of This One. |
Frogman, that is one of the best posts I have ever seen on this site, where you explain differences between jazz and classical musicians to the layman. I was very tempted to chime in first when I read that question, but refrained, as I knew you would give a much better written reply. Kudos! I want to emphasize one point Frogman makes - he states that in jazz, individuality is paramount, and that this is one reason why jazz players are not so great at playing classical. This hits the nail on the head. What I want to elaborate is that, for instance, as a section horn player, my job is to blend my sound as much as possible with my principal, articulate exactly the same way he/she does, play exactly together rhythmically with him/her, play exactly in tune with him/her, so much that we sound like one player. This is actually my greatest strength as a player/musician, my ability to match others in this way, hence why I have the job I do as opposed to a principal job - I make the principal's job much easier. It is seldom that I have a solo of my own, where I can express some individuality appropriately, though I do get the occasional opportunity. I get to actually play principal probably only once or twice a season. Classical players are much better at this sort of blending/matching than jazz players are - this is one thing Frogman is referring to when he speaks of ultimate command of the instrument, especially in respect to tonal nuance and finesse. You wouldn't want to hear Miles Davis play the Haydn Concerto, or John Coltrane play the transcription of the Hindemith Alto Horn Sonata (which, believe it or not, is actually performed much more by classical saxophonists than it is by horn players). |
Frogman, Yes, tolerated is a better word. I ran across this tonight. I was always a big Lockjaw fan! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaMZvZApIP8 |
The Johnny Appleseed of Music! Damn! I've been called a lot of things, but never that. Thanks for the kind words. Acman3, it's not that playing around the beat is "allowed"; in fact, it most certainly would not be allowed in a classical orchestra setting. Rather, it is that classical training helps the jazz players better learn the rudiments that I spelled out in my previous response to Rok. It is more a case of it being tolerated for the sake of the student's growth as a more well-rounded musician. O-10, this is certainly not a topic worth going round in circles over, but there is no "straw man" and why would there be a need for one? The truth is that we previously had long discussions (and one of your recent posts seems to suggest again) in which it was asserted or, certainly suggested, that jazz players didn't practice and study. A revisiting of those posts would certainly show this. I am glad to see that you no longer feel this way. I don't know what you mean by my "wishes and desires" about old vs new music. I have no wishes about this, other than the hope that jazz lovers who are clearly steeped in the jazz of certain eras, learn to appreciate the simple reality that there is much worthy music being performed currently; including live music. As "second in command" I needed to set the record straight :-) |
Alex, when I heard "South Side Soul", I was immediately transported back to another time and place; 63rd and Cottage Grove in the late 50's. That's when you could see Dinah Washington, or Ahmad Jamal going to or coming from the Pershing Lounge, it was on 64th and Cottage where he made his first famous album, "Ahmad Jamal at the Pershing". This was the hippest neighborhood on the planet. I lived with my cousin on 65th two blocks east of Cottage Grove, and I liked to stroll Cottage just to see the beautiful people. I remember seeing Dinah Washington's Lincoln Continental with the spare on the trunk parked in front of the Pershing. This car was so exclusive that only celebrities owned one. John Wrights name was forever changed after he made that album, he's now known as "South Side Soul". The magic of music is too incredible for words; how can music communicate the vibrancy of a neighborhood that was a magical place which is no more, it only lives through his music and our memories. Did you experience the magic of "South Side Soul" and the streets mentioned, or did you just luck up on the album? Enjoy the music. |
Rok, Frogman is referring to the summer that my friend the professional musician lived in my apartment. He never practiced or expressed the desire to practice, not only that, but an organ would not have fitted in my apartment. (he played organ since childhood in church) Since he was playing three gigs a week of hard driving improvisational jazz, he didn't even know what he was going to play, it's for certain there was no need for him to practice. I drove him to every gig ( still had the infamous duece), and was mesmerized on each set. The intensity of the music (The dynamic range of live organ can never be recorded) was in stark contrast to him playing with his eyes closed and a sublime look on his face. As you stated, the "No practice" was a straw-man, it's for certain no one could get to that level of proficiency without practicing. I understand Frogmans wishes and desires in regard to old and new music, but it is what it is, although when it comes to live music, you have to like what you can get; that's your only option. Enjoy the music. |
Today's Listen: The 12 Berlin Cellists -- 'ROUND MIDNIGHT Great players of course. Misleading title. Not much if any Jazz here. Some interesting takes on popular tunes. Pink Panther was very good. I thought this one was the best of the lot, although "A Rap for Mozart" was good. Sort of reminded me of "A Soldier's Tale". Simon Rattle did the spoken part. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZVFV4T2cCY Nice effort, but they should not leave Beethoven and company for the world of Jazz. Kenny Barron & Dave Holland -- THE ART OF CONVERSATION https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkyD8Vdnkl4 This answers the question, is great Jazz being played today? Excellent CD. Aptly titled. Two Masters! Holland plays Bass like most people play guitar. Barron is just his routine brilliant self. Holland actually plays 'notes' on the bass. Dexterity comes to mind! They sound like a larger group. Ain't got it git it. Cheers |
"We don’t have to know a lot of stuff about sharps and flats and chords and all that business in order to understand music; if it tells us something – not a story or a picture – but a feeling – if it makes us change inside, and have all those different good feelings music can make us have, then we are understanding it. And that’s all there is to it. Because those feelings aren't like the stories and picture we talked about before; they’re not extra; they’re not outside the music; they’re what music is about. And the most wonderful thing of all is that there’s no limit to the different kinds of feelings music can make you have.” -Leonard #Bernstein (Young People's Concerts: What Does Music Mean, January 18, 1958) |
I have 'ROUND MIDNIGHT by The 12 Cellists of The Berlin Philharmoniker. I'll give it a listen later. When I purchased it, I thought it would be Jazz. Has some Ellington, Monk, Gershwin and Corea. But for some reason I filed it in the Classical section. hmmmmmmm. I am digging Kenny Barron and Dave Holland now, and cannot break away!! Frogman, I do hope you know that the obvious time, and effort, that you put into your posts, and answers to questions, is greatly appreciated. Cheers |
WOW, thanks for all that Frogman. I've been "dissing" many jazz players in my mind for decades for being behind the beat ! who knew-LOL It seems the old saying "anything worth doing is worth doing well" comes into play here as well. 90% of jobs in a mass society really ain't worth doing but all the ones that are require constant study. A GOOD nurse, teacher, clergyman has to study every soul that presents to them and is burned out in 15 years . So, most settle for being fair at best and mail it in another 20 years till retirement and get away with it. A musician gives to others as well, but its a lot more noticeable if they are mailing it in ?? Or not? Most I've known say they draw energy from the audience so perhaps they last longer??? I know ,fact certain, a teacher gets sucked dry by his. |
****the great Classical musician brings certain things to the table that the great Jazz player doesn't have. ***** °°°°Such as???°°°° A short list: - ultimate control of their instrument dynamically and tone-wise. Most jazz wind players don't know how to play a true "piano" (very soft); never had to. The type of tone required for jazz would be totally inappropriate for classical. - ultimate technical command of their instrument necessary for playing much of the solo literature written for the instrument. Even Bird or Trane would not have able to get through, for instance, the Glazunov concerto; never mind in a credible manner. - rhythmic accuracy. Yes, you read that right. Most jazz players, when playing written music, play on the back side of the beat (behind the beat). Perfectly acceptable and preferred in jazz, but not in Classical. - Perfect intonation. Many jazz players, even the great ones, had terrible intonation by classical music standards. - fully developed tone with the kind of tonal nuance and finesse required to play classical is rare in jazz players for whom tonal individuality is paramount. I could go on, but the point is simply that they each have their strengths. |