Rok, when comparing Mary Lou, and Dorothy, you are side stepping a social issue that affected "all" African American artists at that time; they had to be "entertainers", even if they were serious musicians. This gave us "Mantan Moreland" and "Stepin Fetchit". In no way am I bringing Dorothy down to that level, I'm just expediting the discussion.
Mary Lou never wavered in regard to whether or not she was a serious musician, and not an entertainer. Although Dorothy was as good a musician as Mary Lou, her standard of living, or should I say "making a living", was of a higher priority and she "entertained". No, I'm not bringing Dorothy down, I'm simply shining a light on the circumstances African Americans were confronted with in this country at that time. Do you care to address this? If not, I'll understand.
Enjoy the music.
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Mary Lou is not the only babe in town. Today's Listen: Dorothy Donegan -- LIVE AT THE WIDDER BAR A little more bombastic than Mary Lou. Sort of like a Female Oscar Peterson. Knows her way around a piano, but stays mostly within the standards of the genre. Great tune selection. Excellent support by Jimmy Woode(Bass), and Norman Fearrington (drums). Sorry, but I could not find a Youtube clip of this CD. Avaliable on Amazon used and cheap. This is one you should buy on faith. You won't be sorry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_DoneganCheers |
O-10 & Acman3:
My Mistake. I have the RS 1500, which is a 2-Track deck. I bought the seperate 4-Track Record and Playback head assembly. It also will playback 2-Track, but not record 2-Track. Dealing with 2-Track recorded tape is a pain.
I taped all my Classical and Jazz LPs to keep from wearing them out, and also to keep from going thru all that crap getting a LP ready to play. Most of my LPs have only been played once. I look at them now and think, what a waste. Useless, but in Pristine condition.
Cheers |
Acman, and Rok, blank tape is the problem. If you know of a source of tape "maybe" it would be OK. Those machines have to be played on a regular basis, or they'll go bad. Before my machine was too old, I replaced all the transistors and capacitors; all in all, I can't say I recommend a new beginning in R2R. I started when a good R2R was the ultimate, now the computer can be raised to such a high degree of quality, that I see no reason for the R2R.
Enjoy the music.
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Rok, Dbx decoders are cheap. Check and see which are respected by current standards.
I have been contemplating R2R for a long time, but have decided, at least for me, right now, two sources are enough. |
Rok, 2 Track 1500 is exactly what I have. When I recorded LP's, they sounded smoother and quieter on playback; as a matter of fact, they sounded better all the way around. I know that's not supposed to be, and it's "illogical", but the dumb machine didn't take logic, and it doesn't know that's impossible; "Reel to Reel is king of the hill."
Enjoy the music.
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O-10:
I have a Technics RS-1500 under wraps in the garage. I bought the seperate 2-track head assembly. Is this the one you have? Made the mistake of taping all my stuff using DBX. :(
Cheers |
Rok, I most certainly will get it. It's so hard to believe her music was this advanced. I still can't explain why I don't already have her in my collection.
Thanks for the "you tubes".
Enjoy the music.
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Today, I eyed a file of open reel tape, and decided to give the "Technics" open reel deck a whirl. Since CD's and open reel tapes are derived from the same collection, (mine) you would think they would be quite similar, but they aren't. You see the tapes were made before CD's and consist almost exclusively of records. After going through the open reel ritual of cleaning heads and pinch rollers, I threaded a tape; "Extensions" by Ahmad Jamal. This album was released in 65, when his trio consisted of Jamil Nassar on bass, and Vernel Fournier on drums. I was told he went inside the piano, and plucked the strings on this one; I forgot who told me, but I can't seem to find anything to back that up. (A disadvantage of having a reel as opposed to an album cover) When you hear how advanced this music is, you won't believe it was released in 65. Here is "This Terrible Planet" from that album. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fQiW0Ur89EI couldn't find "Extensions" from that album, the one on "you tube" is not the same; I guess you'll have to buy the album; here are the goods on that particular LP; http://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/ahmad_jamal/extensions/Here's another old record; Yusef Lateef blows more horns than you can count, check em all out on "Sister Mamie". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ycYPKijiMoEnjoy the music. |
Miles on Trane:
While checking to see if Zita Carno really did write the notes to "Giant Steps", I read the notes. My CD says they were written by Nat Hentoff. Whatever. Anyway I read this quote atributed to Miles Davis.
"I always liked Coltrane. When was with me the first time, people used to tell me to fire him. They said he wasn't playing anything. They also used to tell me to get rid of Philly Jo Jones. I know what I want though.
"I also don't understand this talk of Coltrane being difficult to understand. What he does, for example, is to play five notes of a chord and then keep changing it around, trying to see how many different ways it can sound. It's like explaining something five different ways. And that sound of his is connected with what he's doing with the chords at any given time."
Hell, that's simple enough. We Aficionados already knew that.
Didn't we?
Let me reach for 'Sun Ship', and verify this. :)
Cheers |
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Today's Listen:
Mary Lou Williams -- ZONING
Simthsonian / Folkways reissue. LP Recorded in 1974. Excellent sound quality.
Wonderful music. Every tune is 'fresh' and killer. I am beginning to see and hear her, the way the OP does.
She is joined on two of the tunes by pianist, Zita Carno. I am not familiar with her. The booklet says she is a classically trained player, but well 'attuned' to Jazz. Says she wrote notes to 'Giant Steps'
I would say, anyone that can translate Coltrane to English, is most definitely 'Attuned'. In any event, the two of them playing together is wonderful.
A couple of tunes have Tony Waters on Congas. Amazing. The music does not sound dated. It's as modern as anything being recorded today.
Re-discovering Mary Lou makes me happy and sad. Happy for the music, and sad that she and her music was so neglected, in a relative sense, by the Jazz establisment.
Ain't got it? Git it!
I noticed that her tunes are just the right length. She does not play too long. Or it could just be that, time flys when you are having fun.
Cheers |
Rok, I told you when I saw Trane and company live, he had totally lost McCoy Tyner and Alvin Jones; when they didn't know where he was, their only option was to stick with each other. Although it sounded like they were playing two different songs, that was McCoy and Alvin's only option. That was in the winter of 63 or 64.
Since they were together on most of the set, and it was only near the end of the set where Trane went to the "outer limits", that must have been in 63 when "My Favorite Things" was hot.
Enjoy the music.
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******Take your Coltrane like a man!******
I ain't scared of no Trane. Hell,. I own, and have listened to, in it's entirety, "Stellar Regions".
Kulu Sé Mama:
From the posted comments:
"even if it does sound kinda like a chicken's head being torn off in a Santeria ceremony." Some people have such talent for writing reviews.
This coupled with my 'Tyner on Coltrane' post pretty much sums it up for me.
Soul on Soul:
Again, I like to read the comments below the video. The comments on this one?
"No comments to display." Says it all.
In spite of these ' slights ', I enjoyed them both. I would not pay real money for them, but I enjoyed listening to them. Esp the Coltrane. Nice rhythm section. Tyner saved the day, and I now understand why he left right after this. Things were getting just tooooo busy!!
BTW, I do own more Trane than any other artist. He played so much great stuff, before he felt he had to push the boundaries, and fell into the Abyss, in the attempt.
Thanks for the clips.
Cheers |
Acman, you have cleared everything up in regard to the title "Soul On Soul" in regard to a tribute, or celebration of Mary Lou Williams music; it was my misinterpretation of the title. Evidently the music wasn't supposed to be reminiscent of her music, but a tribute and celebration of her music, which is different; yes it is a good album.
Enjoy the music.
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***That was a sad day that poor people will never forget.****
Probably true, but not warranted. He didn't do very much for poor people. Now Johnson did, but he was a Southerner, so he can't be given credit. Such is the world we live in.
Cheers |
Always had an impression of Tyner as a no-nonsense type player. Maybe because I felt that way about Coltrane. O-10, it looks as if you and I are not alone in thinking Trane went off the deep end.
Tyner on Coltrane:
His involvement with Coltrane came to an end in 1965. Coltrane's music was becoming much more atonal and free; he had also augmented his quartet with percussion players who threatened to drown out both Tyner and Jones: - wiki
"I didn't see myself making any contribution to that music... All I could hear was a lot of noise. I didn't have any feeling for the music, and when I don't have feelings, I don't play."
[4] By 1966, Tyner was rehearsing with a new trio and embarked on his career as a leader. -wiki
There's that word (noise) again!!
Cheers |
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Rok, I have a few LP's of Tania Maria, she seems to have gotten better; even though this is old, it's more recent than my LP's, I like it; but I seem to like everything "Brazilian".
Thanks for posting this, I will definitely add her to my collection in a big way; she takes to me to places where one can feel cool ocean breezes under swaying palms while sipping on a "pina colada", and gazing into romantic eyes. (I can dream can't I).
Enjoy the music.
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I listened and I listened, then I listened some more; I never got tired of listening, and she never got tired of coming up with new ideas. We're talking primarily bass and piano, with 3 vocals out of 17 tracks; one where Mary Lou sings "My Mama Pinned a Rose On Me", she got a big kick out of that one.
Every tune affected me in different ways; after I found out "Dirge Blues" was written for President Kennedy, I began to hear it differently; it's a blues with the sad cadence of that flag draped coffin that was carried on a horse-drawn caisson to the U.S. Capitol to lie in State. That was a sad day that poor people will never forget.
The way she can go from blues to boogie, and back to blues, or blues and boogie at the same time, is absolutely amazing. While all great pianists stand out, every note of her's seem's to ring with "Here I am, Mary Lou Williams, the little girl whose Mama pinned a rose on her"; I mean she reminds me of no one I've ever heard before, or will hear after her.
I have no idea why I didn't discover her before now, or that I knew so little about her music, but I just forgave myself, because now I have her.
Enjoy the music.
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Rok, there have been many others who were "historically" important, whose music I didn't like. Unfortunately, Mary lou was in that same time frame, and I didn't bother to listen to her music, big mistake, which we are now correcting. Although I had heard Mary Lou's name often, I had no idea she was so far ahead of her time. I can certainly understand how that reviewer could say her's was the best piano recording he had ever heard; she's connecting with me on a deep subconscious level.
I recall you posting a number of female jazz pianists, some who I vaguely recall, but none whose music I had gotten into; now I'll back track and maybe post some of them.
When you receive your CD's, do a detailed review including sonics. Me and your new speakers are eagerly awaiting this event; we can all go to "Mary Lou-Ville".
Enjoy the music.
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O-10:
BTW,
Excellent statement on Dave Douglas vs Mary Lou.
Cheers |
O-10:
*****My Mama Pinned a Rose on Me*****
I notice you got the one with all the 'blues' tunes. Good for you. "No Blues, No Jazz". :) I put it in my cart also.
I am very impressed with reviews of this woman's music. I had no idea she was this important a figure in Jazz.
I bought the CDs I have because of reviews from Stereo Review. I never followed up on her as a person.
One reviewer said the Williams CD he was reviewing was the greatest, or best, Jazz piano recording ever!! Even allowing for hyperbole, that's quite a statement.
Installed my tweeter, so my Polks are ready for duty. I will post my thoughts on Mary Lou as soon as I receive her CDs.
BTW, I posted her many months ago. Ignored as usual. :(
Cheers |
Horace Silver's sound was just as unique as Mary Lou's if not more so. |
Rok, "My Mama Pinned a Rose on Me" is a real winner, both sonic and music wise; I've been in Mary Lou ville since it came today.
Enjoy the music.
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First and foremost, I want everyone to know that I am only expressing one person's thoughts opinions, and emotions, and I make no claim to speak for anyone else. This is my "subjective" opinion in regard to "Dave Douglas, Soul on Soul", which is a celebration of "Mary Lou Williams" music. This opinion in no way is a reflection of how good a jazz musician Mr. Douglas is, but how well this works in regard to Mary Lou Williams music.
Since I had a problem with the words "objective" and "subjective" with two past contributors, I'll spell it out again. People who lay claim to some kind of "objective" reality in regard to jazz, are saying you are not only supposed to hear what they hear, but the music is supposed to have the same affect on you as it did on them. I make no such claim; again, this is only one person's opinion, mine.
I listened to this music and could not hear how it related to Mary Lou Williams. While I have no objections to the fact that it was rated as a top jazz album, I could not hear the relationship to Mary Lou Williams.
Words are spoken and written, music is played and written, Mary Lou's music displayed subtle emotions, that could only have been displayed by her; it wasn't so much what she played, as it was the way she played it. Let me compare two musicians, her and Horace Silver, for example; since he wrote "Nica's Dream" and a number of other tunes, one could play his music, and call it a "celebration of Horace Silver", but in the case of Mary Lou, one would have to display her unique touch; in other words, one would have to duplicate "Mary Lou Williams" because it was "the way she played", as opposed to "what she played", and the only person who could play what she played, the way she played it, was "Mary Lou Williams"; consequently, this music fell flat in that regard.
Enjoy the music.
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Thank you Chazro for that timely contribution. Have you reviewed it yet? I'll review it the first chance I get.
Enjoy the music.
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Dave Douglas - Soul On Soul: A Celebration Of Mary Lou Williams. While only 4 of the 13 tunes are actual MLW written tunes, the rest are dedicated to her. This record was on many 'best of the year' lists in 2000 when it was released. Outstanding record! |
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Rok, I could do without the singing as well, but that CD also contains "It Tain't Necessarily So", that might be one of the better CD's. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUdMoKXKAuoI want Mary Lou's music with today's sonics. When Bheki Mseleku play's Mary Lou's music, that's fine, but when he switches back to the South African thing, I could live without it. I think what we might be looking for, are today's artists who are inspired by Mary Lou's music; that would give us the best of both worlds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbRg8iMemy4This is one nice cut, a must have. Enjoy the music. |
O-10: The singing on the first clip went on too long. I thought once Mary Lou started playing, she should have continued until the end of the tune. They were screeching at the end. The tune, Dirge Blues, played by Bheki Mseleku, I liked a lot better. I neeed to check out Mseleku's output. Speaking of Dirge, here is the Master. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzbfWTcoE6cCheers |
Rok, I'm a lot more of an "Audiophile" than I would like to admit; once I get into the music, that's all I want to hear, not noise and distortion. It's quite possible that we have gone as far as we can go with this music; nevertheless, we covered a lot of territory, but I think it's time to move on. What are your thoughts?
After we receive the CD's we can compare notes in regard to sonics. Hopefully they'll clean up Mary Lou's music like they did those 50's and 60's CD's. Next time I'll give the sonics more consideration before I get into the music. BTW those CD's you have are better than my original LP's, which has absolutely nothing to do with that CD vs LP fuss, but the fact that the music can be cleaned up before it's released.
Enjoy the music.
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Acman3:
Just because a person purchases a half dozen or so, Shunyata Sigma power cables, does not mean he is in danger of becoming addicted.
And how did you find out about the purchase??? Have I been HACKED???!!!
Cheers |
Rok, be careful, that's how he addiction begins, next thing you know you will be looking for the perfect power cord, but what a wonderful way to go! |
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O-10:
I really miss our local Circuit City. They had a pretty good selection of music and gear. Lots of Carver stuff. I purchased, for my Mom, a cheap Technics receiver, about 15 years ago. It's still going strong. She only used it to listen to the Gaithers. :)
My polks are sounding better today. Could my tweeter problem be a function of speaker, or brain, break-in? Today I looked up Lsim705 reviews to read. One reviewer used ELLA & LOUIS for his sound test. I listened to that today. Great Disc.
I will do whatever it takes to keep these speakers. The most beautiful I have ever seen. Build quality unreal.
Cheers |
O-10:
Did some searching for Mary Lou's albums on Amazon and in the All Music Guide to Jazz. I think it's best, for sound quality reasons, to stay with her later work. Regardless of the playing, I just cannot listen thru static and noise.
I will select from these:
Black Christ of the Andes
First Ladies of Jazz
Nite Life
Live at the Cookery
Solo Recitial:Monterey Jazz Festival
Cheers |
Rok, I went to Circuit City for computer parts, and a salesman stopped me on the way in selling speakers, cheap speakers. "Can't this guy tell I'm an "Audiophile", we don't buy cheap speakers", that's what I was thinking anyway. "See me on the way out", I told him.
I don't know if I found the computer part or not, but sure enough, when I was on my way out, he stopped me again. "These speakers are really cheap", "How cheap", I inquired. When he told me, I said, "I'll take them."
Those were Polk Speakers, and that was 15 years ago; they were small 2 way bookshelf and sounded a lot better than I expected. Just recently I hooked too powerful an amplifier to them and one of the cross overs blew, speakers still good; I ordered a crossover from "Parts Express".
I use them in the workshop; but just imagine some speakers so cheap, I bought them when I had absolutely no intention of buying any speakers at all, and they lasted 15 years without any problems, and sounded good. Times have changed.
Enjoy the music
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Rok, patience is a virtue, one we will have to exercise in regard to acquiring Mary Lou's music. In the meantime we can discuss the person who created the music. She was a natural born musician who was way ahead of her time, so far ahead that mom couldn't believe it; she dropped Mary Lou who was in her lap watching mom play, and played the same thing note for note after watching mom. (I wrote about another musician who repeated a Juilliard student's lesson) There was never any doubt as to what she was going to be when she grew up.
It's for certain we want all the music I've posted, and will continue to post; hopefully all of the music wont be on different records. In the meantime, clue me in on anything you find interesting about her, or her music.
Enjoy the music.
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Rok, the only thing dope inspired was "No Shows". Musicians who used dope would have been addicts had they never laid eyes on a musical instrument or sang one single solitary note.
Enjoy the music.
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Today's Outrage:
On a British TV talk show, discussing the war on drugs, The moderator used Billie Holiday, as an example of how drugs can be beneficial to an artist, by making them more creative. He prefaced his statement, by saying he was a great Jazz fan.
They say there is a Planet Annihilating asteroid out there, with the Earth's name on it. Hurry, Please Hurry.
Cheers |
Rok, Dinah was one hot sister, and she was only 30 when she made that album. I'm super sensitive to female vocalists when they still have that "girlish" quality in their voice. When you combine this with the very best young jazz musicians, it comes through the music; it don't git no better than that. Your experience mirrors my own.
Presently I'm on a mission that's led to "analog"; that's that dreaded stuff that requires deep pockets, 3K minimum to beat CD. My cartridge recently had an accident, the clumsy thing ran into my hand.
I paid $35 for records that weren't on CD, and shortly after that they came out on CD. Hopefully what's available only on records will be available on CD in a short while. I have yet to find CD's to recommend.
Enjoy the music.
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The Trumpet 'exchange' on 'I got you under my skin'. The winner is?_______ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC7n6SREFewThe more I play this disc, the better she sounds, and the more I like it. You notice the details on repeated playings. Cheers |
Rok, here's "It Ain't Necessarily So"; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4THBVc47ug&list=RDz4THBVc47ugI could listen to her music all night and never get bored; the more I listen the more I want to hear. Our job is to "separate the wheat from the chaff"; meaning she had to make a living, which means whatever was popular at that time, plus there's the matter of recording quality. I'll have to do a lot of searching before I can make recommendations on which CD's to buy. Enjoy the music. |
O-10:
*****you didn't buy "Dinah Jams" for Dinah Washington, you bought it for the musicians backing her, so do not miss one single solitary note.*****
You are absolutely correct. Great playing all around, but 'Lover come back to me', that tune, at that tempo, cried out for Ella.
Thanks for turning me on to it. Great Disc.
Cheers |
