I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Like all Jazz, it kept mutating. You can hear it in modern Jazz to this day. Is there a Bill Frisell or a John Zorn, without Fusion. Don't think so.
You always have the decision to add something new to your past or go back. Just because you move forward does not mean you discard the past, but like I said a long time ago, once you stop moving forward and learning the new vocabulary, everything new will sound odd, out of place, except the vocabulary you know and you are stuck in the past. The decision is always yours to make. Both as usual have consequences.
Yeah Rok, I liked that impersonation of Monk, it brought back memories of him in Nica's book.
Right now I'm listening to Chick Corea's "My Spanish Heart"; that was some beautiful music; once he dumped that fusion, he never went back, and I'm going to follow in his footsteps. I can see no difference in "fusion" and my bright yellow double knit, low waist, 2 inch thick cuffs, bell bottom trousers. (they would be nice if you were to form a group called "The Clown Posse")
Apparently the final obituary has not been read for this fusion beast, although this is the only place it's still alive; what does it take to kill it. Do you know where we can get some silver bullets?
All three were great. Loved the Trumpet playing on 'Brown Rice'. A guy on stage talking about Monk. If he did that today, I wonder if anyone would even know of Monk.
When I was about 22 I heard Romantic Warrior and decided I never wanted to be without it and bought two albums. I think it was my introduction to music being an art. I had never thought of it that way before. This album is so colorful. I love it. In about 1976 there was a electronics(mostly stereo equipment)show at the Salt Palace in Salt Lake City Utah. It was in a large arena, maybe 200' X 200'. It was really good sound equipment being demonstrated, even some of the highest of high end at that time. Every booth that was displaying sound equipment played this cut Romantic Warrior loud and clear, by way of a local(in the arena) FM broadcast. That was goose bump time for me.
Excellent post O-10. And you are correct comparing it to bell bottoms. Both are equally relevant today.
I said about three years ago that the 70's was a terrible time for music. Music from that era just never gave me good vibes. I am sure there are exceptions, but overall, not the best era for music.
I'm in a "Don Cherry" mood; his music is transitional, it's the stop over you have to make before getting back to solid terra firma, down to earth jazz.
Has the final obituary been read for "fusion", or is it coming back again?
I wish I had something good to say about fusion. If somebody can find something good to say about my bright yellow double knit low waist bell bottomed trousers, I'll find something good to say about fusion. They both were current at about the same time.
Somehow, I'm slightly disoriented, and I think It's a result of too much fusion; that art work on the album covers is so discombobulating, plus all that space music; where do you think "Hymn To The Seventh Galaxy" came from?
Fusion is surrealistic art, put to music, and when combined with intoxicants, is designed to send one to the farthest reaches of the seventh galaxy, all the way out past Orion number 9.; that's what it was good for.
Now that we're back down to earth, where do we go from here?
I don't get it. But, I realize it could be me, so I read a lot of the reviews and comments on you-tube and Amazon.
"Corea is a god". "This is the best record ever recorded" Yikes!!!
I'm thinking, what planet are these people from. I'm thinking, how can people get all that from this music, when I get nothing. Then I ran across a review on Amazon that provided a little insight.
paraphrasing:
It depends to a large degree on your age. He said during the formative years when he became interested in music, Fusion was Jazz. He was not aware of anything else. There was Rock, and there was Jazz(fusion). Fusion being a more 'sophisticated' form of Rock?? Bebop was no where to be heard. Several people said after being 'raised' on Fusion, they later discovered Bebop, and never looked back. As if Fusion prepared their ear for real Jazz.
I say, whatever! I know the first music I ever heard with which I associated the word 'Jazz' was probably Duke Ellington, Count Basie maybe Cab Calloway.. That was the type of music my family listened to. We also listened to Church music, Broadway tunes, Blues, R&B and early R&R..
Which means, Rock was noise to my ear from day one. Still is mostly. And that includes this so-called Fusion. Everyone can't like everything, although I wish I could.
My son loves Rock. That was the music he heard during his formative years. If I had known that, I would have locked him in my stereo room with Monk and Mingus going 24/7. Hindsight.
Back in the day, one professional Jazz critic once said, "Young people think any instrumental music is Jazz". He may have been on to something.
Romantic Warrior: For what it is, not extremely irritating. There are a few measures here and there where you could almost think it is Jazz.
I am afraid that I am not doing Return To Forever's (Chick Corea) "Romantic Warrior" justice with the lack of some commentary. This recent romp through Fusion has led to my revisiting some of these records and I have to say that this record is an absolute masterpiece of the genre. Amazing compositional values from one of the most creative minds in contemporary music (including jazz-jazz), Chick Corea. This should be approached like one approaches listening to a symphony. Elements of Baroque music can be found along with strong rock and traditional jazz fusings. Just like Kind Of Blue is often cited as possibly THE record to play for someone who has never heard jazz, this could be my pick for demonstrating the genre Fusion to the curious. I recommend listening to it beginning to end. Even if you generally don't like Fusion, give it a shot and see what you think at the end of the ride. Their last record as a band:
Did something happen while I was away? And what are those thumping sounds?...like the banging of sticks ☺️
Don’t worry Rok, take a deep breath and check this out; it’s going to OK. Here’s another for 1976. Non-fusion from one of the best and most interesting piano players that most have never heard of:
Weather Report member Jaco Pastorius would forever change the way that the electric bass was played and previous ideas about what was possible on the instrument::
I think we all know where this is going, so in the interest of saving time and typing:, allow me:
O-10's response to Learsfool: How do you know how much Jazz I have heard. Not only do I live and breath and listen to Jazz, I eat it also. So there!!
The Frogman: O-10, no one is questing how much Jazz you have devoured in your life time.
O-10: Frogman, you are the most unique person I have ever met. The Frogman: Why thank you O-10: O-10: but you don't have any idea of what happened in Seattle. The Frogman: HUH?? O-10: Just answer the question Frogman. Answer the question. The Frogman: what question? O-10: Don't play that game with me. I have spent almost 2 years in South Korea. I don't play that Jive! The Frogman: WTF are you talking about? O-10: I am talking about the fact that I have heard 2.3 trillion bars of Jazz played. How many have you heard? Answer the question Frogman!
At this point Learsfool will intervene once again.
Learsfool: The Frogman is just too modest. Not only does Frogman Play, Live, Breath, make Jazz, HE INVENTED JAZZ!! And I don't wanna hear any of that Jelly Roll Crap!!
The Frogman: (modestly) Thanks you Learsfool.
At this point O-10 will attempt to defuse the situation by posting a clip of a Group of one legged guys from South Sudan playing Sudanese-funk Fusion by banging on their wooden legs.
Learsfool, do you come out depending on the phases of the moon, or is it the full moon; you always come out so unexpectedly, just like the wolfman in those horror movies. You scare the daylights out of me popping out like that. Give me a little warning next time.
FWIW - I won't even address this post to O-10, since he does not want to be educated. However, Frogman's modesty is showing here, and I will say what he will not. There is absolutely no way that O-10 has heard even half of the jazz that Frogman has, even if he is decades older. The very idea is ridiculous. Frogman is a PROFESSIONAL JAZZ MUSICIAN (also classical). Music is his life - he is not just your average audiophile on here who just listens to music in his spare time. He makes it - he lives it - he breathes it. He has of course listened to it and studied it all of his life, and the vast majority of his waking hours just about every single day are devoted to it. It is quite within the realm of possibility that in fact he has heard more jazz than everyone else participating in this thread put together.
I can hear a musical phrase, and when I hear it again, recognize it, but I can't tell where I heard it the first time. Another thing is when a musician is "clinical", his music doesn't flow; I think that's the "Juilliard" effect. When people have been taught precisely how to do something, that's the way they do it; maybe classical music works in that fashion, but not jazz.
I have observed that when a musician has had little formal musical education, but somehow he's getting his musical message across, you only hear the part of his playing that reveals a lack of formal training.
When a person goes from one extreme (a degree from Juilliard) to the other extreme, which would be no formal training but has, what I can only identify as God given talent; in jazz, it's quite possible that the person with natural talent, to sound so much better than the person with the degree from Juilliard; especially if they're playing extemporaneous hard bop.
I notice you like to use the expression of "nuts and bolts" to indicate formal training, and musicians who rely on formal training sound mechanical; hence, your expression of "nuts and bolts" is quite appropriate.
****Frogman, you are one of the most interesting individuals I have ever encountered***
Why, thanks O-10!
Re your examples: I didn't confuse anything; I simply took your comments at face value as I'm not a mind reader. Try being a bit clearer going forward if you want to avoid confusion. Anyway, I hope your day turns a little less boring.
I am very intrigued by Wynton's use of cliches. Let's make things interesting. Could you please post some examples of what you mean? Specific spots in recordings of his solos? Thanks!
Rok, I hate when somebody misses one of my jokes, especially when it's meant for them; consequently I'll have to tell this one over again. The joke was not about the narrator of the event, but the event itself, and I asked you "Who does this remind you of"
Frogman, you are one of the most interesting individuals I have ever encountered.
You tend to have a very provocative style as demonstrated by your unnecessary reference to me in a discussion that I had no part in; and your admonition that I "not post that CC is fiction". Why do you make the assumption that I would?
Frogman, you thought I confused "Like Young" as classical music in a post that was meant for "Learsfool", plus you understood that I thought "Santana" was fusion in a post that wasn't meant for you. I thought I would head you off at the pass, (so to speak) in regard to CC.
"Stereotypical" can have a number of different meanings depending on who's using it and how it's used. When I use it I'm referring to jazz "cliches" that have been used over and over again. Since you are a musician, you should be able to recognize them better than me.
Presuming that I've heard more jazz than you is possibly a bit of self flattery, but it would depend on our age differences and how much we listen to jazz. Since you also listen to classical, we have to eliminate that portion of your time. In regard to all the different chronology of jazz, I'm guilty, but since I spend more time, I'll call it a wash.
While this is much to do about nothing, it's been a dull boring day anyway.
O-10, you flatter yourself. I agree that what is stereotypical to one person may be something else to another person; back to that in a moment. Let's get this one out of the way:
You are absolutely correct, having points of disagreements is not "throwing rocks"; but, as usual, you misconstrue what the issue was and is. The throwing of rocks (which was your phrase, btw) was not and is not having points of disagreement; it is the style and attitude used while disagreeing. You tend to have a very provocative style as demonstrated by your unnecessary reference to me in a discussion that I had no part in; and your admonition that I "not post that CC is fiction". Why do you make the assumption that I would? If you cannot understand that that comment/admonition is provocative then I can't help you further. THAT was the "first stone thrown" by you that I referred to; and what you often do btw, as exemplified by the fact that here we are, after many new and interesting posts and comments about music, and you choose to, instead of moving on, to bring up that nonsense again. I rest my case.
Now, what is "stereotypical"? Who knows? You coined the phrase. It probably means something different to each of us. My comment was simply that Wynton's playing did not fit MY definition of "stereotypical"; a silly notion to begin with. It is meaningless to throw out vague terms like that at the exclusion of some substantive description of what is meant. Concerning my comment re Wynton the great irony is that it is the absence of a strong sense of what the "stereotypical" hallmarks of good jazz improvisation are that are missing in his playing. Additionally, and even more ironic given the recent discussion is that one of the most discernible and interesting influences in his playing (particularly his early recordings) is.....are you ready?......Miles. How ironic is that?
Now, your self-flattery.
****that's because the other person hasn't heard as much jazz, consequently, what's old hat to me, is new to you, and you don't recognize it as "stereotypical"****
The obvious retort is "how do you know" that I haven't listened to as much jazz? O-10, if you feel the need to pump yourself up by thinking that yours is bigger than mine I couldn't care less; but, I assure you that Panonica would not agree 😜. And this claim coming from someone who proudly admits to not having or having had any interest in pre-swing, swing, big band jazz, any "before Bird" jazz. Yikes!
Rok, do you remember that scene in the "Blues Brothers" when they played the wrong kind of music in a "Country & Western" joint; that's what would have happened to Grant Green if he had played "Moon River" in a "Hard Bop" establishment in St. Louis; at the places he was accustomed to playing.
The CD was in reference to Benny Green "Soul Stirrin"; if you can get the CD you're one lucky fellow; as a matter of fact, if it's available on CD, I'm going to order one.
Read what I said again OP. You said it was not as good as you remembered them being. I was just suggesting that maybe it was because of the large number of standards. Broadway type stuff.
I used the CD by Wes as a contrast and example of what the Green set could have used more of. Swinging, Blues, Cookin' or whatever.
I had to pay $35. for the vinyl record because it wasn't on CD, so think how lucky you are if you can get it on CD; I think it's boss, and I certainly can't count the times I've heard it; which means it can stand repeated listening, however, if you think otherwise.....
When Marsalis arrived on the scene, the epicenter of Jazz was in NYC. Full of hard, bitter, angry, drug addicted Jazz players. They played music that reflected this condition. Forgotten was the warning from Pops that,"If you can't dance to it, it ain't Jazz". They were all advancing the art. They advanced the art so far that they left the paying public behind.
Enter the Jazz savior coming up from the birth place of Jazz. Virtuoso, clean cut, drug free, and very articulate. He called them out. Showed them they were washed up, and had lost their way. Saved Jazz. That's why folks like Miles resented him.
Jesus cleansed the Temple, and you see what they did to him. So Wynton has survived relatively unscathed.
People who want to play Jazz, should play Jazz instruments. Picture the NYPO with all the violins replaced by guys on electric guitars, wearing tank tops with rings in their noses and baseball caps on backwards. I don't think saying "We be advancing the art" will sway anyone.
You people will have a lot to answer for one day. When, or if, you reach the pearly gates, you better hope they aren't manned by Pops, The Duke, or people of their ilk. If so, you are all in deep doo-doo.
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