I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
I don't think we've heard much of Lou Donaldson, who happens to be one of the first jazz sax's, and also one of the best in my collection; this tune "Blues Walk" is a classic in jazz;
Very good Acman, I've gotten too old to become acclimated to new music; this sounds so good, it even feels good.
"All Blues"
Miles Davis – trumpet Julian "Cannonball" Adderley – alto saxophone (except on "Blue in Green") John Coltrane – tenor saxophone Bill Evans – piano (except on "Freddie Freeloader") Wynton Kelly – piano (on "Freddie Freeloader") Paul Chambers – double bass Jimmy Cobb – drums
Coltrane! Coltrane! Coltrane! and of course Miles and the rest of the group.
A Happy Thanksgiving to everyone. Certainly, for me, much to be grateful for.
Acman...thanks for those Ari Hoenig links. A new name to me. I enjoyed that 2nd "All Blues". Sure don't sound like blues though! I appreciate drummers that play with a light hand and don't use a monster kit. Funny when he drops a stick. Didn't seem to bother him at all. Would be interesting to read Frogman's "précis" of that piece and performance. There's a '74 Ron Carter record called, "All Blues". I wonder if there's a connection to that.
Andreas Vollenweider is a musician who put on an incredible performance when I saw him live. Since this was a big theater I carried two pairs of binoculars, one to focus on close up, and another to get the big picture.
The percussion section was the most impressive; that guy had more chimes, gongs, and drums than you would believe. How he knew when to strike each piece is a mystery to me.
Andreas played two different kinds of harps plus a koto; he put on an unforgettable performance. We were seated in the mezzanine; it was like being in the middle of a gigantic speaker.
While seeing him, and his crew perform live was extremely engrossing, I hope you can use a little imagination while listening to what I've submitted, and bounce around on this site until you find your favorite "vollenweider".
***** I think we are probably due for the twentieth posting of Ravel's "Bolero"; or perhaps more Billy Ocean or Luther Vandross. Now, THOSE will really get my feet and fingers tapping on two and four ******
No one can say I ever posted the same tune 20 times. 19, maybe, but never 20. Anyone who says different, speaks with forked tongue.
But I always want to see feet tapping and fingers popping so:
It's for sure I heard music, and was entertained by musicians like "Sharon Jones" when I went out on the weekend, which was every weekend. (in my twenties) There were more clubs than I could count, that had clubs with live music like this on the weekend in St. Louis.
Frogman - Glad you liked the Ahmad Jamal clips and doubly so as they are new to you. Both are from his album, The Awakening (as you no doubt saw). A recording well worth owning.
Rok - thanks for that glimpse of Sharon Jones. I saw a few comments about her passing but know nothing at all about her. Will have to check her out.
Ahmad Jamal is heavily represented on my play list. If I remember correctly, Rok dropped out when I put the "Spotlight" on Ahmad Jamal; but, the old memory ain't what she used to be.
Presently, I'm enjoying everyone else's links so much, that I don't want to spoil the party by submitting any.
Ghosthouse, thanks for those Jamal clips. Fantastic! Had not heard those and they are interesting to me in that they show Jamal playing in a somewhat different style from the chord-heavy approach of "Poinciana" days; more use of melodic lines in the right hand. Great player. I particularly enjoyed "Trio-Patterns" and beautiful rendition of "Stolen Moments" with a unexpected lilt and slightly faster tempo compared to the classic original:
I think "chamber-jazz" is a good description of Oregon's style. Very strong improvisational element as you point out. Combine this with very interesting and sometimes complex structures in their compositions and virtuosic playing and it pushes the broader "jazz" button for me. Whatever it is, it's really good music. Towner is a monster musician and a driving force in the group.
****(Sharon Jones) makes a good point for this thread**** -Rok
What I think makes a good point for this thread is that while being so intent on pointing out what is not jazz (in your opinion only) you overlook great stuff like the Jamal clips. I think we are probably due for the twentieth posting of Ravel's "Bolero"; or perhaps more Billy Ocean or Luther Vandross. Now, THOSE will really get my feet and fingers tapping on two and four ☺️. You can join the party anytime. Cheers.
"My favorite comment of hers was when she was interviewed about Amy Winehouse recording with the Daptone house band. She said something like "Some people study the blues and then try to sing it. While I open my mouth the blues just pours out". "
I copied this from another thread talking about the recent death of Blues singer Sharon Jones. Substitute the word 'Blues' with 'Jazz'.
By Jove, I think she nailed it. Makes a good point for this thread.
Found both Roots in the Sky and Out of the Woods on Tidal and saved them to Favorites. My initial impression is both are more polished and better realized than Winter Light or Distant Hills. Yes, O...sonics on these (Yellow Bell playing now) are very good. A pleasure to listen to on a number of levels. Not sure Rok would call it jazz. There’s definitely an improvisational element but don’t think they are working from a blues structure. Liking it quite a bit. Thanks to both of you for the recommendations.
PS - I'm no Oregon expert. I backed into Oregon only superficially after discovering Towner's Solstice on ECM. Paid more attention to Tower as solo artist than diving into Oregon. But now it's a new window of opportunity.
Oregon "...managed to combine truly deep musical substance and creativity with just the right amount of "New Age" sound while avoiding the (to me) triteness and "lite" quality of most New Age music."
Great observations, Frogman. PLUS, Oregon had the Ralph Towner factor.
Read some comments from him about Oregon, something to the effect of, they saw themselves as a small chamber orchestra.
I don’t think my copy of the CD has liner notes like this one though. (That’s because this YouTube clip is from the re-issue. I went with the original CD release.)
Tonight, listening to this one. Not a false note in the whole thing. Link above is to Patterns but Stolen Moments is probably my favorite on the album.
Alex - I tried to check out your "mean guitar" link but got this notice:This video contains content from elvis. It is not available in your country.
I always heard The King had a tight backing band but know very little of the particulars. Just never was a big fan of The King. My appreciation of good musicianship is a little broader than it was, so I am curious about what you hear in that track.
Great ensemble, Oregon! Been a fan since college days. One of the few ensembles or artists that managed to combine truly deep musical substance and creativity with just the right amount of "New Age" sound while avoiding the (to me) triteness and "lite" quality of most New Age music. I can see the comparison to Shadowfax, but imo on a whole other level of instrumental playing and composition. Love Paul Macandless. My two favorite Oregon recordings:
Ghosthouse, I'm surprised that you liked "Bright Mississippi", but it encompasses many cultures and goes back a long way; a wide range of people like it, that indicates how broad that "Nawlins" thing is.
I just found "Ancient Future"; their music is akin to "Shadow Fax", I posted a few cuts before, now I'll see if I can find some new cuts to post.
That’s a good memory for you, O. I’m guessing you have 10 years on me based on the music you were listening to and your description of the juke boxes. By my time I’m guessing it was all solid state in the NJ diners. They’d have these table top terminals with a big wheel on top to turn and flip a sort of Rolodex with the names of the singles. Feed it quarters and punch in a number or letter and number to get your song(s) in the que.
I know of Shadowfax. Have one of their LPs (Dreams of Children) I bought not all that long ago. Did not follow them closely. There used to be a good program on public radio out of NYC, "New Sounds". John Schaeffer was the host. See link here... http://www.wnyc.org/people/john-schaefer/
He played a range of new age, ambient and electronica on his program. That’s where I first heard Shadowfax. Also got introduced to Brian Eno, Harold Budd and Jon Hassell through that show.
If you enjoy Shadowfax, you might like The Penguin Cafe Orchestra. Here’s a sample. Pretty certain it ain’t jazz, though. Might not even be that similar to Shadowfax but the two names are linked in my head for whatever reason.
Ghosthouse, that would be nice to meet up at a luncheonette like Kate's; it was at a place like that I had lunch and met with a friend, who played "Motorin Along" on the jukebox there every time we met.
It's a funny thing about those old "Tube jukeboxes"; they were my first exposure to "high end" and I didn't even know it. I didn't even know why I liked the much prettier SS Boxes a lot less when they made the changeover.
I don't like to repeat, so be sure and tell me if you've heard this before. "Oregon" reminded me of a group I liked a lot, that I was buying at about the same time I bought "Oregon"; that was the group "Shadowfax". Here is "One Thousand Teardrops".
Hello O - Always appreciate the music suggestions. Jimmy Smith is a name I actually know. My bro in law, a musician and boutique studio owner (does it all...engineering, production, arranging, mastering) is a good keyboard player too. Has a Hammond B3 he’s done some restoration on. He turned me on to "Back at the Chicken Shack". Jimmy Smith was in that Blue Note concert DVD too. Of your two tracks, I like Motorin’ Along best. Burrell and Smith is a good combination. I like what Burrell plays on that track a lot. His sound might not have the bite of modern electric "rock" guitar but he sure has great skills.
Got to say, I think we should meet up some time for lunch at Kate’s. Wish there were more of those old style luncheonettes still around. Might have to get that Home Cookin' just for the cover art. Thanks.
Ghosthouse, I appreciate your honesty, more than anything in regard to music that's new to you. Currently I'm into "old school" Jimmy Smith, and I would like your opinion of this music.
You can't be expected to like it as well as me and other aficionados, because I heard this music when it was brand new, and I couldn't wait to get to the record store to get the latest "Jimmy Smith". This was when he was making albums with Kenny Burrell on guitar; that was a pair made in heaven. Two of my favorites were "Motorin Along" and "All Day Long"
O - Please, where did I express "disdain for the standards in jazz"?
From Merriam Webster - Full Definition of disdain: a feeling of contempt for someone or something regarded as unworthy or inferior : scorn.
The fact I don’t find certain music interesting is way different than saying I regard it as inferior or with scorn! Unlike some around here, I’m not passing judgement on its merits in any objective way. I have too much respect for the genre and the opinions of many others to place myself in that falsely superior sort of position. It’s a case of brussel sprouts, beets, or liver and onions. Works for some, just not for me. Almost feel like I need to go compile a list of old jazz that I do find interesting. Well, no need. Here is something right at hand: Allen Toussaint’s "Bright Mississppi". That’s old stuff but it works for me in that album...wonderful arrangements and musicianship, great song selection and track sequencing. I do admit the fact such music held and holds my interest did surprise me. Could add to the list (e.g., that Blue Note Concert DVD; various Coltrane recordings; the Les McCann "On Time") but won’t. Just don’t want you to misunderstand what I was saying. I will continue to check out the various musics recommended here. Some will stick and some won’t. That’s more a comment about me since, to paraphrase you, the music we love is a composite picture of everything about us; where we were born, when we were born, our life experiences, and personalities. Well said. We’re happy for the stuff that sticks.
Music is a composite picture of everything about you; where you were born, when you were born, your life experiences, and your personality.
I see no reason to "cultivate" a taste for anything; just let it flow, and let everything find you, that's the natural order of things, and they work best that way.
As an example, I have a CD titled "The World's Best Classical Music", and I can hardly get past the first cut; that's the natural order of things, that's the way it's supposed to be.
Ghosthouse, when you expressed your disdain for the "standards" in jazz, that said it all. Enjoy whatever you find that's enjoyable, and leave the rest; go on life's merry journey with a song in your heart, and a smile on your face.
That's my advice for the day, and there is no charge, that was free.
I thought Frogman’s 4:50 & 9:18 PM posts from 11/16 well-reasoned, and moderate in tone. Very good job expressing views I share.
Classical music didn’t end at the start of the 20th century even though a work by Bartok is dramatically different than one by Mozart and even though I might loathe some 20th century "classical" music. In similar fashion, I don’t see a reason certain music can’t be called "jazz" just because it differs so much from what came before. Miles or Coltrane sure as heck were not simply recreating stuff they’d grown up with. It’s the constant growth and change that keeps art alive. Want to kill jazz? Put it under glass in a museum and don’t let it change.
O - I listened to Tabackin’s "Pyramid" that you had posted. Also spent time with "Jazz at the Castle"...a live recording of the Lew Tabackin Quartet. This features him mainly on tenor sax but does include one piece of his flute music, "Return of Pan". His flute playing is very good and even to my ear seems to reflect classical training as noted by Frogman.
I was impressed with his sax playing on Jazz at the Castle. The style seems very modern as opposed to "old jazz" though I’m guessing the tunes are more old school. Not Free Jazz (that mostly does seem like noise to me) but his solos do have a more abstract less structured quality than the tight, well structured solos I associate with hard bop, be bop or cool jazz. Some of his playing reminded me of something I’d hear from one of Frank Zappa’s bands (Ian Underwood, specifically).
One of my realities is that the instrumental work and musicianship are NOT what I don’t get or like about old style jazz. It’s more that many (but not all) of old style jazz songs themselves just don’t grab me. They just aren’t interesting no matter how inventive the solos. And that’s said with all due respect to the thousands and thousands of jazz fans for whom the various well-regarded pieces DO make a big connection. I prefer a more contemporary sound song-structure-wise. That’s the best way I know how to describe my jazz tastes. Wish I could provide more music theory detail about what that means. I only recognize it when I hear it. Don’t know enough to predict it up front.
Some of Weather Report’s "oeuvre" represents what I like; Tony Williams Lifetime, too; the Pat Martino Joyous Lake that Frogman recommended works for me BUT absolutely NOT ALL his stuff (e.g., that work with Joey DeFrancesco); a good bit of Pat Metheny - but not his more traditional jazz recordings.
I didn’t bring up Jazz Pistols so they could be an object of ridicule (sorry for those that think that way) or even a touchstone of the best in modern jazz - I’m not that ignorant...there’s only going to be one Coltrane (or Miles or Evans). I do raise them (as well as Neil Cowley and Snarky Puppy) as examples of contemporary musicians - whether you call it jazz or not - whose compositions hold my interest AND who I also happen to think are, objectively, very good musicians.
So, that’s my meditation triggered by Mr. Tabackin’s flute playing.
Read my comments and you will note that I have never said anything remotely like that.
**** Do you think it is equal to the original? ****
Some of it is not only the equal of "the original", some of it is better. Now, please note the use of the word "some".
**** Do you think there is no difference in artistic quality?****
Sometimes there is. Sometimes it's better. Please read my comments again, and the previous answer and please note "sometimes".
Why do you think that the type of jazz it is defines how good it is? So, mediocre or bad old jazz is, by definition, better than any new jazz?
****I say one era is light years ahead of the other in both quality and quantity. Others may disagree.****
Ok, so what? If you can't find any value at all in music that is the product of and relevant to the time that you are living in, that is your issue, not mine. The simple fact that it is jazz of today is something that, by definition, gives it relevance and validity as a vehicle for creative expression. Whether you like it or not is a different matter. As far as quantity goes there is no doubt that you are correct; plenty of reasons for that. However, again, so what? How does that fact automatically make all of what IS there "bad" (noise)?
As always, no problem with not liking something, but why bother attempting discourse about music if there won't be a bare minimum of civility by, at least, not calling what someone else may like "noise"?
****I do think, that if there was not a constant attempt to keep real Jazz in the conversation, it would NEVER be talked about on this thread.****
Not quite sure what you mean by that. If you are suggesting that it is YOUR attempt only, you would be incorrect and aren't paying attention. Speaking for myself, I have posted at least as much "real" (by your definition) jazz than new jazz. Furthermore, who's stopping you from talking about it? Talk away. If you are suggesting that we should not talk about new jazz at all, well, I think you know better.
Hey, today is Dolo Coker's birthday. One of the truly unsung heroes of the piano. Here's some "real" Jazz for you; enjoy:
Old versus New, is not the issue; what I like and don't like is the issue.
From my vantage point there has been as much "old" jazz (I dislike "jazz-jazz") posted here that I would consider mediocre or even sub-par as there has been "new" jazz that I can say the same about. This goes to what I think is a key question that never receives a satisfactory answer in the endless debate about old vs. new jazz:
While I agree with what you posted, it seems that I'm supposed to like jazz because it's new as opposed to "music" to my ears; whether it's new or old, either I like it or I don't like it.
I feel like I'm "short timin" and I don't have enough left to evaluate for any length of time.
I don't recall being a fan of Wynton? Maybe part of your post applies to someone else who I refuse to name.
BTW, by old and new, I do not refer to the date it was played, written or recorded, but to the type of 'Jazz' it is. A lot of great Jazz being played today. A few examples are, Dee Dee, JALC, Branford, Gregory porter, Christian MacBride, and a host of folks from the New Orleans scene. There are many other recent greats, but I am not sure they are still with us. It seems like never a day goes by that we don't lose someone.
*****
Moreover, I don't read any particularly insightful comments or explanations as to why old jazz is always "better" other than "I say it is". "new jazz is noise", or "Wynton says it is"*****
Wynton said that The stuff Miles and Metheny was playing, was NOT JAZZ. Had nothing to do with new or old Jazz. It was not Jazz of any type. He was / is right.
Do you think New Jazz is always better? Do you think it is equal to the original? Do you think there is no difference is artistic quality?
I say one era is light years ahead of the other in both quality and quantity. Others may disagree.
I do think, that if there was not a constant attempt to keep real Jazz in the conversation, it would NEVER be talked about on this thread.
As with music, "acquired taste" presumes open mindedness to the possibilities of the unfamiliar. In part, its a mindset. Is one going to be the type of individual who is always looking to the past for the coziness of the familiar or is one going to remain open to the possibility that there may be something just as good or better in the new. There may be healthy skepticism toward the new, but when it blinds us to the potential of the new and puts the familiar on a pedestal without any skepticism, it's not a good thing, imo. Example:
From my vantage point there has been as much "old" jazz (I dislike "jazz-jazz") posted here that I would consider mediocre or even sub-par as there has been "new" jazz that I can say the same about. This goes to what I think is a key question that never receives a satisfactory answer in the endless debate about old vs. new jazz:
What purpose, exactly, does it serve to hold on to a stance that always looks back in time for the only "good" jazz? Does this make the staunch old-jazz fan a better or more appreciative listener by being closed to the possibilities of the new? No way, and certainly not if one considers ALL that gets posted here as "good". Moreover, I don't read any particularly insightful comments or explanations as to why old jazz is always "better" other than "I say it is". "new jazz is noise", or "Wynton says it is". Nobody is saying that The Jazz Pistols are on the same artistic level as Coltrane; that would be silly. However, I don't think that this is the issue. Importantly, I don't think that there is anyone here who likes new-jazz that doesn't also like quality old-jazz; it seems that the reverse is not true. Why does it bother some that others find value in some new-jazz and can appreciate both new and old as long as it is of high quality? Does it "protect" old jazz by being closed to what the new has to offer? No way. In fact, I would say that being so close-minded toward new jazz and insulting of those who like it only serves to sour the new jazz listeners to exploring the old.
O-10, Lew Tabackin, with the possible exception of Hubert Laws is the most accomplished flute player in jazz today; accomplished as an instrumentalist. Whether he is anyone's favorite jazz player on flute is up for debate, but he is certainly one of the very best. Beautiful player and beautiful rendition of Duke's composition. I don't know if it was intentional or accidental on your part, but posting that clip on the heels of a discussion about Duke and classical music was great; what in music is called a great "segue".
Duke was a student of the great classical composers and while I have no way of knowing whether that composition was inspired by this other one or not, I have no doubt that Lew Tabackin, a devoted classical flute student, had this other piece in mind when he chose to play Duke's composition on flute instead of saxophone (his other instrument). Claude Debussy's "Syrinx" for solo flute is, to classical flute players, like "Night In Tunisia" is to beboppers; a staple of the repertory. Obviously two different styles of music, but I think that the similarities in the two melodies are striking. I am posting "Pyramid" again for the sake of comparison:
O - haven’t checked out the Lew Tabackin yet, but I will.
I’m with you on acquired taste - mostly. Sometimes, though, people you respect make recommendations...food, drink, music, books, whatever and it’s worth investing a little extra time in something that might not immediately appeal. Of course, sometimes this just ends up confirming one’s initial reaction and better judgement!
Funny, on the oysters. My intro to them might have been one of the best places to have ’em. Used to work (contractor) in Gulf Coast refineries and chem plants. Food in Louisiana some of the best anywhere. Go to dinner at Ralph ’n’ Kacoos in Baton Rouge on Airline Highway. They did sell to a chain but when the family still owned it quality was consistently good (but what’s a damn Yankee know, ’cept it was locals that took us). Blackened redfish when that was "in". Barman would shuck oysters right there and whip up cocktail sauce too. Horseradish, catsup, lemon juice and Tabasco...might be leaving something out (Lea & Perrins?). It always seemed it was the cocktail sauce that made them, though. After a July day in a plant wearing Nomex and the rest of your safety gear, a cold, cold mug of Abita Amber and those oysters as appetizer were very enjoyable.
I didn't "acquire" a taste for jazz, it's part of me and the way I live. I would have to "acquire" a taste for classical music, which I have no intention of doing.
That's where I was coming from; there is so much music that comes under the heading of jazz, that it's possible to find music you like without "acquiring" a taste for it. Life is too short to "acquire" a taste for anything; either you like it or you don't; that's the way it is with me and jazz; some of it I like , some of it I don't.
Acman, I like smoked oysters, but not "raw" oysters, no way ever.
There was a sea food place I went to for lunch, and had "Bouillabaisse" almost everyday, and I watched this guy slurp down raw oysters; he made them look so good that I wanted to try one, but never quite made it.
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