I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Eunice Waymon spent her entire life practicing and studying to become a concert pianist. She was playing at a bar in order to earn money for classical piano lessons when she was told she had to sing.
I can hear all those hours she spent practicing and studying, but you can not. Time, time and again you have demonstrated your tin ear, which all the knowledge in the world or your clever use of the English language will compensate for.
Forget Nina Simone, why don't you read about "Eunice Waymon" and tell me specifically which jazz pianists studied, or practiced harder; that would be responding to a specific question which you can not do, not even if it would save your life.
When one is rolling in the mud it's difficult to tell who the low life is.
Nothing in your post pertains to the subject of Nina Simone's piano playing.
I stated "fake snobery" because it was an attempt at humor, but in the future you can count on me not addressing you in any form or fashion, since that is the kind of response it gets, and your bs is much older than anything I could throw down.
I didn't intend to get this muddy, but s--- happens.
O-10, I should have added this to my earlier post, but was rushed; I like clarity.
The reason I even mentioned “apology” in that post was not that I care one iota about receiving one from you; history has shown that you are not capable of that kind of sincerity. Nor do I care one bit about fitting your definition of “connoisseur”. I mentioned it because, to my way of thinking, you owe all on this thread an apology for, once again, stirring the pot of discontent and controversy with your absurd and provocative personal comments even when that same history has shown that whenever you do it, it serves no purpose other than to derail what could be interesting discussion of the music. I care about and respect this music. You care more about what it does for you and your identity. So, go ahead with your proclamations about being top “connoisseur”, “top aficionado”, whatever. You need that; I don’t. I couldn’t care less and frankly find the need to appropriate or use those titles to be incredibly lame, sophomoric and an indication of lack of depth. I don’t think that to describe your condition as “snobbery” is apt; I think delusion is far more appropriate.
So, let’s revisit just one of the more recent and superlative offerings from the “top aficionado” and “connoisseur”, shall we?:
Frogman, I direct things at you because you are a professional musician, and the top aficionado beside myself.
Who is the top aficionado is based on who has recommended the "best" jazz over a period of 3 years. Of course that has to be confirmed by others, and it has been; it's in the records; this is not a popularity contest.
frogman - wow, that list of Paul Chambers work is impressive, and as you've said, a lot of them are classics. It made me think back and to the fact that I often used Paul Chambers as sort of a "Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval." If there was a record or CD that I was uncertain about purchasing, his presence was often the deciding influence on my "vote."
O-10, unfortunately (for you), “snobbery” only scratches the surface. It took you a few tries, but at least you were able to come up with something remotely resembling an apology (not!). As I’ve said before it’s all pretty obvious; including why it is that your ”snobbery” is more times than not directed only at me. Don’t worry, it will be overlooked...again, and again, and again.
Which all leads me to what ties the answer to the above question and the subject of mary_jo’s very interesting comments. I will offer some thoughts a little later, mary_jo.
Following recent discussion and speaking of the musician’s performance, I was always wondering, can musicians devote themselves equally to the voice and to the instrument when playing and singing at the same time? And all that in their perfection? Will at some point the performance of the instrument "suffer" when the delivery gets stronger through their voice or vice versa?
For instance, should a singer like Nina, let somebody else accompanied her on the piano in order to get the perfection out of the both performances?
The result would be really - perfection in full, I mean that is logical. But then another question arises.
Would she sing equally better when she uses her voice only and does not accompany herself on the piano in comparison with the previously mentioned combination?
I mean, one man show gives you certain advantages. Whatever comes out is under your control and it gives you the huge amount of freedom in performing. At one point you can decide to play faster and to sing faster, you can decide to improvise, you can do whatever damn you want.
Frogman, you are a professional musician, and you have exhibited your knowledge of music, time, and time again, but you are not a "Connoisseur" of the very best jazz; that requires taste comparable to the best wine stewards.
When Nina Simone goes deep into her piano bag, she is no longer Nina Simone; she is Eunice Waymon, the girl who spent her entire life training to become a classical pianist. Only the most knowledgeable aficionados can hear this.
I have presented to you, Frogman, the jazz epicureans piano delight, although you may not appreciate it; such is life.
Maybe if you start at my first presentation, and listen to them as being that of the pianist Eunice Waymon, you can appreciate them more.
It's only when you separate Nina Simone from Eunice Waymon, can you truly appreciate her piano.
I like some of her stuff. A lot of it is borderline whining. Never thought of her stuff as being particularly sophisticated. Was it even Jazz? But like Dylan, she was great, for and at, a certain period of time. I think the civil rights movement killed her career.
Eunice Waymon was hired at a cocktail lounge to play the piano; when she was told she had to sing for her supper, she became "Nina Simone"; she never had any intention of becoming a vocalist.
Pryso, and Frogman, your evaluations, and comparisons are quite valid in regard to Nina, and the other jazz divas; she might even agree.
O-10, I suspect you’re right; she probably would have been another boring classical piano player...to those who know Classical music. That’s the point ‘though, the ones who are exceptional and have the potential to not be boring classical pianists are the ones who get the scholarships.
**** She would have to be exclusively a pianist to make the comparison you made because there is so little where she focused exclusively on the piano. ****
I think I said the same thing if I understand your comment correctly. Perhaps if she had focused entirely on the piano she would have achieved the level of those others. What I have heard from her where she only plays piano did not reach that level, imo. Or are you saying that she was as good a piano player as those others but she just didn’t record very much as just a piano player?
"nor the piano skills of Evans, Kelly, Barron, Wyands, or many other great piano players. To be honest you probably made a valid observation that I never did."
She would have to be exclusively a pianist to make the comparison you made because there is so little where she focused exclusively on the piano.
Although the judgement I made is 100% subjective, and it is minute compared to someone who is exclusively a pianist, I listen intently and treasure it.
pryso, yes, she did. I don’t know for just how long she attended, but she attended Juilliard for a very short period of time before applying for a scholarship to Curtis. I agree about the emotion she conveys; pretty riveting.
Curtis didn't like the way Nina Simone played the piano; that was not necessarily racist in one sense, but it could have been racist in another sense. The bottom line; it was our gain, if they had liked her, she would have become another boring classical pianist.
First, thanks frog for that listing of Chamber's recordings. I've long admired his playing but had no idea he was so active during his short (sadly) career. It seems now there was hardly time to go on the road with any one group!
Regarding Nina, we've discussed her before. But I liked the observation of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts. While I never thought of her in those terms it does make sense. For my taste, what tied it all together was the emotion she conveyed in her performances.
Also frog, while it may not have been at Curtis, I remember reading that she did train as a classical pianist before turning to jazz. Was that true?
Imo, Nina Simone is a perfect example of Aristotle’s famous quote “The whole is greater than the sum of its parts”. Before anyone thinks that this comment is faint praise, it is not. Nina Simone was a great artist and I love her artistry. Her artistry was a result of a combination of the ability to convey an incredible sense of emotion and commitment to the message of her songs, individuality, tremendous attitude in her delivery and excellent piano skills; not to mention that her songs, many of which had social consciousness themes, added to the overall impact of her artistry.
In this context my following opinion doesn’t really matter, but I point it out because you make an interesting comment re her piano playing specifically: “ I’m not sure she maintained her piano skills to the end”. Imo, none of her many skills were, individually, quite on a par with the very greatest artists that we have discussed here. Her vocal skills (not her delivery) were limited; as was her piano playing. They were very good, but she certainly didn’t have the vocal skills of a Sarah Vaughn (not even close), nor the piano skills of Evans, Kelly, Barron, Wyands, or many other great piano players. To be honest you probably made a valid observation that I never did. You may very well be right that her piano playing was not maintained at the same level. I just never really paid much attention to her piano playing per se because it never struck me as outstanding. Don’t get me wrong, as I said, it was very good, but what always made an impact with me was the commitment and power in the overall delivery of the songs; the sum of the parts.
Btw, much has been written about how she was denied admission to the Curtis Institute and her feeling that it was due to racial bias. I don’t question nor doubt that bias may have played a role. However, in fairness, I would have to point out that being aware of the unbelievable caliber of pianists that attend that conservatory with the hope of having careers as concert pianists, I personally have not heard enough in her recorded piano playing that made me think she could have been a contender. IMO.
Can you imagine, Milt Hinton, Herbie Mann, Kai winding & J. J. Johnson as side men backing up a female vocalist? That's when you can count on me to listen intently to the music;
To make a living, Eunice Waymon changed her name to "Nina Simone". The change related to her need to disguise herself from family members, having chosen to play "the devil's music" or "cocktail piano" at a nightclub in Atlantic City. She was told in the nightclub that she would have to sing to her own accompaniment, which effectively launched her career as a jazz vocalist.
Nina Simone's early albums gave us two for one; we are getting an accomplished jazz pianist plus a unique female vocalist. Since it was singing that payed the bills, I'm not sure she maintained her pianist skills to the end; Frogman, the professional musician will have to answer that question.
I recognized her skill as a jazz pianist from the beginning; while I have these works on CD, I'm not sure you can get them on vinyl because they're primarily the early albums.
"Nina at Newport" is one of them; besides the vocals like "Porgy", you get instrumentals like "Flo Me La" and "Nina's Blues"
Thanks for the correction Frogman, I thought he was on all the cuts. The great Hank Jones is hardly unknown, and needs no introduction; he's on my favorite cuts.
Rahsaan was one of the great geniuses of jazz. Great clip and great record; one of my favorites. Thanks! Check the credits, though; on that clip it is Hank Jones on piano, not Wyands. Wyands plays on this cut:
Roland Kirk was recorded in 1961, and does it have a different feel; "fast hip city", more of the 50's and 60's sound; Richard Wyands piano reflects that.
That was when Roland Kirk exploded on the scene, and let us know he was a new force on the jazz scene who would command our attention.
You are extremely observant with good ears Frogman, I was going to point out the same things; especially the Fender Rhodes electric piano.
Music reflects the sociological times; that was when you felt safe walking "Up The Street, Round The Corner, Down The Block" in the city.
While some feel I should not incorporate sociology into music, that's who I am; while some of us live very well, there are too many US citizens who were born and bred here living in third world conditions. That's all I'm going to say about that.
Nice Kenny Burrell clip, O-10; thanks. I liked that clip; very nice and “groovy” feel and the playing is great. I liked it a lot eventhough I am usually not a big fan of that “sound”. That sound is very “70’s”; and as you correctly point out, very different from a typical 50’s/60’s “sound”. That sound is very similar to the classic CTI sound of the same era and shows the tremendous influence that producer Creed Taylor, for better or worse, had on shaping a certain 70’s sonic aesthetic. Wyands sounds great and, as you say, the focus is on him, but also the sound of the Fender Rhodes electric piano which he is playing and recorded very up close and with generous use of reverb. The sound of that instrument became almost ubiquitous in the 70’s, not only on many CTI recordings but also those of Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock and others. Nice clip.
I bought this album when it came out in 74; if you notice, it has a sound that's quite different from the 50's and 60's. The focus is on Richard Wyands, a pianist whose name I did not recognize.
"Up the Street, 'Round the Corner, Down the Block" (Onaje Allan Gumbs) - 7:18 "Afro Blue" (Mongo Santamaria) - 5:40 "Sausalito Nights" - 7:15 "Juice" - 5:40 "A Little Walking Music" - 3:18 "Soulero" (Richard Evans) - 9:13
Kenny Burrell - guitar, whistling (track 5) Jerome Richardson - flute, soprano saxophone, tenor saxophone Richard Wyands - piano, electric piano Andy Simpkins - bass Lenny McBrowne - drums Mayuto Correa - percussion
I remember when I bought this, and the store I bought it from; it was from the records department in a department store; St. Louis and suburbs were so pleasant then, I spent evenings just shopping and browsing; now, from what I heard on the news, St. Louis is one of the murder capitals of the world; how the times have changed.
Back to the music; I had forgotten how nice this album is, that's because it was worn out from frequent play and I quit playing it; it will have to be replaced.
An interesting factoid about Paul Chambers’ legacy as a bass player is that he was one of the very first jazz bass players to become really proficient playing and soloing “arco” or bowed bass. This is from the same live Trane/Getz performance that you and nsp posted recently:
Paul Chambers. Probably on a short list of greatest Acoustical bass players in the jazz genre of all time. To bad he was addicted to heroin and alcohol which contributed heavily to his early death from tuberculosis.
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