"and she was friend, mentor, and teacher to Thelonious Monk, Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, Tadd Dameron, Bud Powell, and Dizzy Gillespie." All the musicians I idolized, she taught; can you imagine that.
In 1945, she composed the bebop hit "In the Land of Oo-Bla-Dee" for Gillespie. "During this period Monk and the kids would come to my apartment every morning around four or pick me up at the Café after I'd finished my last show, and we'd play and swap ideas until noon or later", Williams recalled in Melody Maker.
I have never read where Monk chased after anybody, but there he is with the kids every morning. She was super heavy; I can't believe how modern her music is.
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Favorite Williams if it's convenient. |
Favorite Williams, or just favorites?
BTW, I still have a visual image in my head of the page on which her music was reviewed. Stereo Review or Jazz Times, I think. 'Zodiac Suite' was the CD. Cheers |
Mary Lou Williams; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Lou_WilliamsRok, I would like for you to focus on her early years; she taught herself to play piano, I don't know where we read this, but her mother would not allow professional lessons. There is a special reason that I mention this. We did not discover her until a couple of years ago, that was 2016. I didn't bother with her music because she predated "Bird"; therefore she could not be hip. I most certainly was not into the musicians of her generation. All the assumptions I made about Mary Lou Williams were wrong; no matter how late a mistake is corrected, it's better late than never. Now, I just can't get enough of her music; although I put her music down for awhile, I've picked it back up. Almost every artist I can think of is a little like some other artist, or uses a similar riff or something, but she's so unique as not to be like anyone, and the fact that her music is still "cool", is really amazing. I think the fact that her mother forbade anyone else to teach her music, established this individuality. Rok, why don't you peruse your collection, and post some favorites, and then I'll do likewise; besides, the jazz queen of Croatia wants to hear some of your music. |
frogmanIt took me several listens but I got it. K Weill's is conveying the "essence" or mood/feel of the song through his interpretation.You never said it was the "best" and also hinted at his limitations.
It's not easy to get past the age of the recording, his limited singing abiluuty and his accent.Obviously orpheus10 could not. It's his loss .
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Thanks for the Getz/Tjader recommendation, pjw. I do have that record and it’s a good one. Besides the great playing, it has always been interesting to me because the opening cut “Ginza Samba” is kind of a preview of what would be the focus of Getz’ recordings beginning a year or two after that recording date. As you know, he would do a lot to bring the sound of Brazilian music to Jazz audiences. Beautiful player. I could name several favorite Getz records in return, but I suspect you have them all. So, here’s two things by him that are less known and might be interesting; one, an oddity (for Getz). I love this record by Abbey Lincoln. I find her singing to be a bit of an acquired taste, but love the honesty and absence of affectation in her voice. Getz as a sideman is wonderful as always: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9MQotWj8GZ4&t=0s&list=PLkaK5DhzmyNmqcem4wEBmPZVjVl3lYKdE&i...The oddity: I came across this by accident. I read a review years ago that mentioned that Getz was featured on this record by “Huey Lewis and The News” (!!!) and I had to check it out out of sheer curiosity. I could not imagine Getz playing in this kind of setting. He sounds great! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WweW3A2GMdc |
Gene Harris:
Another great one. Oscar Class.
Cheers |
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Slow Freight: I believe this is the first Jazz LP I ever purchased. Never found it on CD. Cheers |
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Here's another special pianist for both of us. I don't know why it's so hard for some people to realize that their music might be the best in the world, but I don't think some of it is squat. I don't think 99 and 9/10ths of the music that's presented on "audiogon" is squat; so what? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyNL4T7JBpg |
Jarreau, Hendricks, and Elling; three guys entertaining and having fun, what is there not to like? Mingus always was unusual; he was someone who they didn't know what to make of in 57, but I liked him anyway. I noticed your jazz queen of Croatia didn't comment on Mary Lou, but that wasn't surprising; taking all things into consideration she couldn't be expected to appreciate the blues. I had forgotten how special Mary Lou was, but I know you appreciated her; she played the blues different from everybody else. Have you ever looked at those lights gleaming down the railroad tracks in the black of night; that's a lonely sight, it reminds me of the blues. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw-V_raPJEE |
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O-10, I do not have that Mingus CD. Cheers |
O-10, no, spelled it twice as Weils. Seems to me that the name of a composer of his stature deserves correct spelling. Two more great Weill songs. Sarah sings with arrangement by the great Nelson Riddle. Clifford Brown on trumpet sounds wonderful. Herbie Mann’s flute solo follows Clifford and while that would always be a tough act to follow it confirms for me why I’ve always felt he was one of the most overrated famous players. Still, beautiful rendition: https://youtu.be/otPzP4YYFpEAnd, of course: https://youtu.be/S-lHrDPjGfQ |
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I spelled his name wrong with 1 L instead of 2 L's; was that one of your points?
No matter how many beautiful songs he wrote, he still can not sing.
Why don't you have someone else explain your point, whatever it is.
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O-10, first, the name is Kurt Weill, not Weils; one of the most important figures in music in the 20th centur and whose influence continues into the present. The point I made was perfectly clear. I’m sorry you could not understand it. Also clear was that the point wasn’t really about Weill per se; you made it about Weill. You see, here we have yet another example of how unfortunate it is that you choose to approach a potentially interesting discussion the way that you do. Your approach erodes any interest (speaking for myself) in further clarification or expounding because history has shown that more times than not your follow up question is nothing but a setup. Very unfortunate. If you truly are interested in understanding you can try rereading my post. If that still doesn’t do it for you and you would like some clarification from me try a different approach. Otherwise, as I said, I believe my point was very clear. One of Kurt Weill’s most beautiful songs and a favorite: https://youtu.be/5dCcGorrT0Q |
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Frogman you never made any point on Kurt Weils that I understood; what was your point?
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Rok, here is a very early Mingus I've been perusing that I don't recall posting, and I was wandering if you had it? This music and poetry connects with me personally, but it's not for everyone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdQuL1Vyy04 |
I am familiar with the work of Esperanza Spalding, Geri Allen is new to me, so as Lyne and Mary Lou. Will make research on YT and will definitely dive into some old posts to see if Rok has posted something similar. Think it will be worth it since I mostly like the jazz he posts. |
frogman,
As a big Stan Getz fan myself, I just want to say if you don't have the 1958 Cal Tjader and Stan Getz sextet recording (I posted 2 songs from it upthread), go get it!
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**** Now we both know that can't be true, but in my mind it is. ****
A glimmer of hope..
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Frogman, I never have, nor ever will be about shooting down every point you make; I'm about the song, and the music when it coincides with the song. Take this version of in a sentimental mood, it captures the emotion of the song more than any vocal; while I'm not always right, I think I am; that's because I've spent my entire life listening to this music, and absorbing the "aura" of each song. Now we both know that can't be true, but in my mind it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwweLcoHqNQ |
What else can you say? That’s an easy one. How about that you’ll stop with the provocative and insulting comments that start these stupid arguments. Or is this another one of the “most stupid, ludicrous, and ridiculous statements” that I have written here? Have you any idea how childish and disrespectful you come across? All because you feel insecure and feel your mantle is threatened. You know, I have an old dog (a great dog) and he learns new tricks all the time.
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This is absolutely incredible; not because it's John Coltrane blowing, but because it's so "seductive"; this music makes the object of the music (the lady with the big black floppy hat) absolutely irresistible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8eYVN8hAlU Songs tell stories, or incite emotions; Billie Holiday was a master at both. |
Frogman, we agree 100%; what else can I say?
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Mars and Venus, O-10 and I’m ok with that. If interested in another shot at getting my point, please reread my post; but, since you’re so hell bent on shooting down any point I might be making it would probably be pointless. I would, however, gently remind you of Rule No.5 from “Rules For Aficionados”......Unfortunately, it seems the guard checking at the door is on lunch break 😊
Inspired by mary_jo, time for a little levity:
Q: How can one tell if the floor of the stage is level?
A: The viola player is drooling out of both sides of his mouth.
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Two more nice versions of the great tune, nsp. Thanks for those. I know the Milt Jackson version well, but had not heard the Clarke/Boland. The Boland/Clarke big band has always been one of my favorite big bands, but had never heard their sextet recordings. Always appreciate hearing new pieces of the puzzle. Here’s an interesting version. I don’t like to post things that I don’t particularly like. What’s the point, right? Well, I find this version interesting for a few reasons even though I’m very mixed in how I feel about it. First, I love Stan Getz. I think he was one of the most beautiful tenor players ever with an amazing sense of melodism and I am interested in anything he recorded. This recording has always driven me a bit mad. The rhythm section, especially the piano player Albert Daily plays in a way that to my ears just doesn’t complement Stan’s fairly traditional style. The piano underpinnings are very modern in approach; very much like the way McCoy Tyner (with Trane) would play and creates a stylistic clash to my ears. Taken on its own, Stan’s playing is brilliant as always. What’s your take on this? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tajiSHADer8 |
No frogman,it is you who missed the point; Kurt Weils couldn't sing if his life depended on it, he should stick to writing. Of course we know Ella can sing, but in my opinion, that song, according to the words should convey the urgent desperation to out race time and the descending curtain; it should convey passion and the need to fill available time with wild romance and love; which Carmen's does; while Ella's conveys beauty; beauty is not a substitute for passion. All the words to that song convey love, passion, and time; "time is a thief"; the curtain will descend, and everything ends, all too soon. Time is so old and love so brief Love is pure gold and time a thief. The couple staring across the table and looking into each others eyes, while listening to Sonny Clark's music, who knew the words, got the message that "Love is pure gold and time is a thief". Life was for those who lived it, not for those who watched others live it. Another case of a great diva who missed the message was "lady Day"; she sang a song the wrong way that someone else chose at the last minute, and she was very angry about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMgK3vi4rMwThis is the way it should have been sung; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf27yA20OhUYou tell me why Lorez sang it the way it should have been sung, and Billy didn't; not my words in regard to the song but "Billie Holiday's". |
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O-10, this is not a competition as you always insist on making it. Ella/Joe Pass “(not) as good as this”. Well, la-di-da! Kurt Weill, “out to lunch”!? You missed the point. A very important point and not at all unusual that you missed it. Once again, you unfortunately demonstrate that you often let your asessment of music be governed by factors other than its merit or points of interest. Unfortunate; especially coming from a “connoisseur”. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mn423hPa2bk. |
frogman"Invitation" is perhaps my favorite standard tune. I love the version w/ strings which opened the movie posted by O10. I believe this song was featured in another movie from the same era but can't remember. the name. To me the song has a certain exotic feel with an air of mystery & longing. I had forgotten the versions you posted by Coltrane and Henderson. I own both of those lp's . both versions are stellar but for this listening session I enjoyed the Henderson version. These are 2 of my favorite versions http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3pvMy9OuOIwhttp://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1f2gSQmD5h0 |
mary_jo, Rok posted a number of fantastic women in jazz; I'll try and recall them. I brought up a lady jazz pianist that we discussed at length; her name was Mary Lou Williams, and what made her so unusual was how she changed with the times. I thought she predated the music I was into, and didn't bother to investigate; was I ever wrong; Rok agreed. What we need is your evaluation; that's the one that counts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X4r5ZioIBwI find her interpretations unusual; take "It Ain't Necessarily So"; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20kDIh3q928 |
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Neither one of those versions are as good as this; even though Kurt Weill wrote it, he should never try to sing it in public; his version is totally out to lunch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiIb0TZbLOglet me post the words again; Time is so old and love so brief Love is pure gold and time a thief Speak low when you speak love Our summer's day withers away too soon, too soon Speak low when you speak love Our moment is swift like ships adrift Swept apart too soon Speak low, darling speak low Love is a spark, lost in the dark too soon, too soon I feel wherever I go that tomorrow is near Tomorrow is here and always too soon Time is so old and love so brief Love is pure gold and time a thief We're late, darling, we're late The curtain descends, everything ends too soon, too soon I wait, oh darling, I wait Will you speak low to me, Speak love to me And soon Time is so old and love so brief Love is pure gold and time a thief We're late, darling, we're late The curtain descends, everything ends too soon, too soon I wait, darling, I wait Will you speak low to me, Speak love to me And soon And soon Speak low, speak low Speak low, speak low That is life; "Love is pure gold and time is a thief"; no time to waste. "The curtain descends, everything ends too soon, too soon"; no matter how long it lasts, the curtain descends, and everything ends too soon. The song itself speaks of "urgency"; the race against time. Carmen projects that urgency, while Ella's beautiful voice projects "romanticism"; this song is more about desperation to beat the clock; not a minute to waste, lets get it on and keep it going on until the curtain descends and everything ends. This is the rare case where the instrumental wins; the urgency in the words are best projected by Sonny Clark and crew; plus the couple listening to the music who know the words and understand the urgency of the situation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDd_0FuenDc |
Anything that includes Paul Desmond..... |
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orpheus, I am not quite military type of the person but could not think of anything else that would be quite opposite to the flattering image of the elegant woman with a hat. ; )
However, this subject of women in army opens different subject of my interest. It is the case as rare as woman in army. Or I could be wrong?
Women in jazz.
Not women as singers but women as piano players, trombone players, guitar players, drummers...
You're all welcome to post the suggestion. Thank you.
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There is often something indescribably right about the way that the composer him/her self delivers a song. Simple, direct and without any pretense nor concern about the listener judging the possibly limited vocal and/or self-accompanying ability. No attempt to jazzifize the song, but to simply let the essence of the song come through. Whether it’s the “best” rendition or not, I always find it very interesting and puts all others in a certain perspective. Beautiful song! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VgQJvNhuiAEA favorite: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2CwPnp2VCYM |
Since you are now a part of "our gang", I didn't want to leave you out, and I didn't know what else to do.
Mary_jo the heroine; I like that, you remind me of ladies I served with in the Air Force.
As for your private side, I won't tell a soul.
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orpheus Thank for your warm and colorful stories and for assigning me the role of an elegant woman with a hat. But just to make you smile and all in good fun of course. ; )
If I would have ability to play a(ny) role, that would be more like close to this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY2wGD6-j0Y
However (do not say this to anyone, this is only between me and you), this one can disarm me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl5wuQn0KJk
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nsp
I posted this version
Art Pepper Quartet - You Go to My Head (1956)
Personnel: Art Pepper (alto sax), Russ Freeman (piano), Leroy Vinnegar (bass), Shelly Manne (drums)
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And yes, Peppe is all what you have said. |
Diane Schuur is an artist that I don't think we've covered; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6DwEGPuyBsThis is another one of my favorite songs; there are so many beautiful versions, I like them all; this is my favorite instrumental version; I think, but you may come up with something better. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2_dTssW_eUThe songs that get recorded the most have a life of their own, and "Speak low" is such a song; let us examine the lyrics; Time is so old and love so brief Love is pure gold and time a thief Speak low when you speak love Our summer's day withers away too soon, too soon Speak low when you speak love Our moment is swift like ships adrift Swept apart too soon Speak low, darling speak low Love is a spark, lost in the dark too soon, too soon I feel wherever I go that tomorrow is near Tomorrow is here and always too soon Time is so old and love so brief Love is pure gold and time a thief We're late, darling, we're late The curtain descends, everything ends too soon, too soon I wait, oh darling, I wait Will you speak low to me, Speak love to me And soon Time is so old and love so brief Love is pure gold and time a thief We're late, darling, we're late The curtain descends, everything ends too soon, too soon I wait, darling, I wait Will you speak low to me, Speak love to me And soon And soon Speak low, speak low Speak low, speak low That is life; "Love is pure gold and time is a thief"; don't waste it. "The curtain descends, everything ends too soon, too soon"; no matter how long it lasts, the curtain descends, and everything ends too soon. I cherish all the songs that played as the background to the movie of my life. |
Great clips, pjw; and nice description of the record. “The Monster” swings like mad. Two of the fathers of modern drumming! Krupa was the first drummer to be featured with extended solos in a band. His solo on Benny Goodman’s swing era mega hit “Sing Sing Sing” is a classic. He and Rich, and music from that era, are definitely deserving of much more attention here, imo; and I have always felt that it is unfortunate that the swing era has gotten short shrift. It would put bop and post bop in a much better perspective. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fhyhP_5VfKMhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3mJ4dpNal_k |
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One of my "go to discs" Krupa and Rich: Krupa and Rich and look at the other players! On this CD reissue, drummers Gene Krupa and Buddy Rich only actually play together on one of the seven songs, a lengthy rendition of "Bernie's Tune" that has a six-minute "drum battle." Krupa and Rich do perform two songs apiece with a remarkable all-star band consisting of trumpeters Dizzy Gillespie and Roy Eldridge, tenors Illinois Jacquet and Flip Phillips, pianist Oscar Peterson, guitarist Herb Ellis, and bassist Ray Brown. Each of the principals get some solo space, giving this release more variety than one might expect. In addition there are two bonus cuts from a Buddy Rich date that feature the drummer with trumpeters Thad Jones and Joe Newman, tenors Ben Webster and Frank Wess, Oscar Peterson, Ray Brown, and rhythm guitarist Freddie Green. Excellent music overall if not quite essential https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e75c21Nfav0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnyRUIgOKLAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be0kO8aJ6B8https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoCuRJzhpLA |
Schubert, I hate to admit it, but our minds are in sync; maybe we'll meet, and discuss many things including fools and kings.
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