Jazz for aficionados

Of course, it should be Adolphe, not Adolf; hate this spell checker.

Hi everyone - I can't resist commenting on the Carmen. One of the very finest recordings of this, both from a musical and an audiophile standpoint, is the live recording done at the Met with Leonard Bernstein conducting and Marilyn Horne singing Carmen. There is not a better recording out there. Horne is one of the greatest singers ever, and the sonics on it are incredible. On the DG label. One of the truly rare times when the greatest performance was also given the incredible recording it deserved.

Rok, the snare drummer is often placed at the front of the stage in performances of Bolero. It is actually an incredibly difficult thing to do, to keep exact time for the entire duration of that piece, and it is physically very exhausting as well. So although it usually makes them much more nervous being placed in the front and center, they do appreciate the recognition that they have by miles the most difficult task in that piece.

Rok, I think tonight I'll answer your second question, are people ever fired. The very short answer would be yes, it can happen. First off, after winning an audition to get a position in an orchestra, there is a probationary period. In many orchestras this is one year, though in some, it is two years. If the musician is not up to scratch, they are let go at the end of this probationary period. This happens from time to time. Once a musician is tenured, however, it becomes much more difficult to fire them for artistic reasons. Basically, there is a peer review process, much like doctors and lawyers have. It works much the same pretty much everywhere. If the music director wants to fire someone for artistic reasons, they have to first inform the musician of what the problems are, by a certain date in the season. Then the musician has some time to fix the issues. If they have not, in the music director's opinion, then it goes to a peer review board. This is the committee you definitely hope you don't get elected to every season. :) Usually the musician has the option to play for this committee, and they certainly have the opportunity to state their case. The music director states his/her case. Then there is a secret ballot vote. It takes a certain number of votes to overturn the music directors decision - usually, almost the entire committee would have to vote against the conductor to actually overturn it. In many situations, if the committee is very split, then there is another period of time that goes by, after which it is usually the music director's sole decision. This part of the CBA is by miles the most carefully spelled out, as you might imagine.

Usually, though, things don't get that far. Often, the person in question might be asked to "retire", and offered some sort of financial incentive to do so. Another example might be a person who is in a principal position, and they don't want to deal with the stress of that anymore; they may step down into a section position some years before they actually retire.

It is more common for someone to get fired for cause. For instance, someone in the LA Phil calling in sick, but then going to work a lucrative film recording session. Several members of the LA Phil have been fired for this in the last few decades. Musicians have been fired for alcohol/drug problems that affected their performance, in some cases even after being sent to rehab by the orchestra. I know a musician this happened to after he relapsed. Though the orchestra had paid for his rehab the first time, and had tried to help him, they did not do so a second time, and he was fired. He has since cleaned himself up, and is still earning a living free-lancing and teaching.

Learsfool:

Thanks for the post. That was very interesting. One of the reasons I ask all these questions is that, of all the different genres I listen to, and I listen to them all, I find Classical players the most interesting.

I guess because they are the most anonymous. The Conductors and the singers get all the glory and recognition, but the players make all the magic.

They also look and act so 'normal'. Could be the guy next door, or someone's Grandma. And the ages vary by a larger margin than most other musical groups. I often wondered what they, and their careers / musical lives were like.

I looked for the Horne CD on Amazon. I think I will have to settle for a used copy. "like New" :) It's a 3 CD set, so that means the complete Opera. I usually like the 'highlights'. But, if you say it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, I will have to get it.

I looked at all my Operas on LP today. Gotta love that cover art. Nothing by Horne, although I do know of her. I have several with Beverly Sills, my first favorite. Street wise NY babe.

I did wiki Horne. Interesting life.

Thanks for the tip and info.

Cheers

Rok, here's another Classical piece that I like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ip64cG7gK4

Enjoy the music.

Frogman, I alerted my son to your video; he had no idea the sax he used to blow was so intricate. We both agreed that must be the world's most beautiful sax.

Enjoy the music.

O-10:

I listened to this yesterday. Ms Fischer is a great player and a FOX!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B56njjw1qtk
Highly recommended.

I also played Bach's Complete Brandenburg Concertos and the Complete Violin Concertos. Played by I Musici. One of my favorite groups. Has Maurice Andre on Trumpet. :) This is one of those Philips Label TWOFERs I spoke of earlier. Great music and a Great bargain!

Clair de Lune? Again, it's one of the most beloved tunes. Great clip, but short. If I have it, it's on some sort of complilation. Stop cherry picking and git yourself into some Bach! He may have been the first Be-Bopper! Or first 'Third Streamer'?? :)

Cheers

O-10:

Also listened to CD7 of the 100 best set. You are right about the sound quality.

I heard bass on Jimmy Smith's 'Sermon' that actually startled me. :) I was at 'realistic' levels.:) I didn't think my Yorx's had it in them! Great tune, even if Coltranesque in length.

Mingus' 'Better git it in your Soul' Wow! How does he do that! He should rank at the top of Jazz composers. Right up there with Ellington.

And why don't we ever talk about Dinah Washington when discussing Jazz Divas? She has a very distinctive voice.

Ray Charles was Ray Charles!

The set gets better as time goes on. I now stay on the look out for similar sets.

Cheers

****He should rank at the top of Jazz composers. Right up there with Ellington.****

You're in good company.

Gunther Schuller on Mingus' "Epitaph":

"a musical summary of one of the great jazz composers of the century"

****How does he do that?****

You may find this of interest; by John DeCarlo (Jazz.com)

"Mingus' compositional style matured in New York City during the 1950s. His recording ventures and regular workshops allowed him to thoroughly explore new musical territory, and to bring ideas to life that undoubtedly had been stirring in his mind.

Like Ellington, Mingus saw the need to develop extended forms in jazz. He began to experiment by modifying conventional forms and finding ways to create the sharp contrasts and variety that became trademarks of the Mingus style. Examples of Minguss range and eclecticism can be heard in �Haitian Fight Song� and �Ysabel's Table Dance.�

One of his trademark techniques as a composer was to create rhythmic contrast between sections of a piece by manipulating the time feel and groove. This technique can be found in many examples of his work, and can range from switching between walking bass lines to doubling every note, to more complicated metric modulations and superimposed rhythms.

An element of his compositional style is the blending of measured against unmeasured space in music, to extend forms and create contrast. He often followed precise written and rehearsed passages with sections of undetermined length, employing set musical cues to provide a malleable departure from an established section. This is an idea that is quite prevalent in contemporary compositions, and often one of the only ways for a composer to achieve the desired balance between improvised and composed elements without jeopardizing the cohesive flow of the music.

Another technique Mingus used often was layering many parts consecutively to build tension. In this practice, sections of a given composition consist of layered vamps or repeated musical phrases. One musician leads, providing an introduction, while the others gradually add their respective layers. This creates steady development and flow without departing from the original material. It also leaves standard devices for developing a composition untouched and reserved for other important moments. This technique can be heard on �Moanin�.

Mingus used collective improvisations as a form of written texture. He would give his band members some kind of musical guidelines for a given situation, and essentially have them improvise counterpoint. While this technique may sound to some listeners as a contemporary device, it harkens back to the early forms of improvisation found in New Orleans jazz.

What make this idea seem so fresh in Mingus' music are the arrangements and the musicians' more modern approach to improvisation, sometimes in an atonal context with complex rhythmic variation. He used this to increase tension and support the progressive nature of his forms. Into the early 1960s, Mingus continued to experiment with incorporating free improvisation, rich textures and color and variety through orchestration."

Rok, now that we got our Gurus back, all is right in "Jazz Aficionado Land".

Frogman, When I bought "Mingus Ah Um" in 59, I was the only person I knew with an album by Mingus, and I simply bought the LP because I liked the cover. Once my group heard it, they were hooked on Mingus.

Even noise was music to Mingus; tugboat horns on the river, bird calls, and all sorts of other sounds. "A Modern Jazz Symposium of Music and Poetry" is an album that reminded my mother of me, "Why don't yall just let me be cool"! Here's the Wiki low down on the album.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modern_Jazz_Symposium_of_Music_and_Poetry

Here's "New York Sketchbook" from that album.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZTR60YlDtg&feature=c4-overview&list=UUERycULxw1_NJ4ux2nh-qgQ

Enjoy the music.

The Frogman:

I read the Jazz.com article, and kept thinking, 'Hog Calling Blues' without knowing precisely why!

Are you back now, or just dropping in from time to time? Are you available for questions?

Cheers

You are always welcome to ask questions and I would be glad to answer if I can. It's a particularly busy time work wise right now, so my responses may be a bit slow.

Is everyone familiar with the 'JAZZ ICONS" DVD series? New to me, and it appears to be great. Check it out on Amazon and you tube it also.

This is one by Quincy Jones with big band. On this one we get everything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmpwWYLMxYA

A French Horn errr excuse me, Horn.
Two females, one on piano and Melba Liston on Trombone
Phil Woods when he was younger and much, much slimmer
The tunes 'Moanin', (should make the OP happy), 'Lester leaps in' and several more good ones.

This series seems to be worth checking out. Nice one by Monk aand others also.

Cheers

part two might be even better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Egi1EQ2Ecw

cheers

All of these several clips are very interesting. This one most of all. The part we never see. The preparation!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcGcig8Wj_A

Cheers

O-10:

If you look and listen closely, you will notice when Battle leaves Carnegie and goes to church!!

Cheers

Hi Rok - I will now try to answer that third question, about orchestral vacancies, turnover, etc.

This depends a great deal on the level of orchestra. if it is what I called a "destination" orchestra, like the Chicago Symphony and the like, then once one got a job in one of those, you would never leave, until you retired, unless you happened to win a position in another equivalent one. Or say you had a section job in one, but wanted to be a principal player somewhere. That is the only reason one might make a step down the ladder. These orchestras have the fewest openings, so it is a big deal when they do, especially in sections with not very many people (woodwinds, brass, percussion). String sections have more openings, simply because there are many more people in them. So even the very largest and best orchestras still usually have at least one string opening per season. But there may be literally decades between one say principal oboe opening and the next time there is one in that same orchestra.

At the other end of the spectrum, the "gig" orchestra made up of local free-lancers, turnover can be very high. They always have several openings each season.

For those third or fourth tier orchestras, such as say Charleston, or Knoxville, or places like that, they will have more openings than the larger orchestras do, but still much fewer than a "gig" orchestra that only does six or eight concert sets in a year.

So a musician can almost never wait for an opening in an orchestra he/she really wants to be in. There may never be one in his/her audition lifetime! In general, aspiring orchestral musicians don't get to pick where they live - they have to go take the auditions where the openings are.

When an orchestra has an opening, they advertise it in the musician's union paper (and nowadays usually on their website as well). Applicants send in resumes, and the audition committee goes over them, accepting some and rejecting most. Or they may have some candidates make preliminary recordings first, to help judge whether it will be worth their time to hear them. It is very difficult just to get an invitation to some of the very biggest orchestras - often, you already have to have a full time job playing in some other orchestra before they will give you the time of day. Other orchestras, though, including a couple of the very biggest, will have what we call "cattle call" auditions - they will let almost anyone show up. It just depends on the audition committee of the orchestra in question. Basically, the only other profession as difficult and competitive, or more, to actually get a good job in would be professional athletics, or acting. And we don't get paid nearly as much as the athletes do, even though we are just as talented, and in fact use much weaker muscle groups that have to last for much longer careers.

I realize that this post may bring up many more questions than it already answered - if so, I would be happy to elaborate. But I think it does answer your basic question.

Battle goes to church. forgot to post the link! :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbIAEKQ7GmY

Cheers

Learsfool:

Wow!! You are in a tough arena!! You answered the question I asked and all the ones that arose from that answer. very thorough! left me question-less!

I suspected it was as you said. A person has to be really dedicated and be able to earn a living until, say, the guy on third trumpet keels over.

Comparing it to acting is very accurate. Thanks for your time and sharing your expertise with us all.

Can't wait to read how one becomes a conductor. I will find it facinating that one system could accomodate such a wide variety of personalities. With folks like Bernstein and Karajan on the loose, How did a guy like Bohm get a job. :)

Thanks again

Cheers

I was walking past the "Pershing Lounge" in Chicago, when I saw a bunch of people gawking at a car parked out front. Although it was an automobile we hadn't seen before, they were gawking because it was Dinah Washington's car, she was performing at the Pershing; this was in the summer of 56, and the Continental Mark II was so new, no one had seen one in the flesh. While I never saw Dinah Washington in the flesh, I still remember her car.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Mark_II

I'm treasuring that memory, as I listen to Dinah; she could sing it all, and do it like no one else. While most of the other Diva's are best known for: gospel, pop, blues, or jazz; Dinah could do it all.

"What a Difference a Day Makes", was her pop contribution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhaBIlWPxfo

Her voice had a quality of deep longing, "Saudade" is the word in Portuguese. It has no direct translation in English, but suggests a deep melancholic longing for an absent something, or someone that one loves. It also carries the repressed knowledge that the object of longing will never return.

While no matter what genre your preference is, you'll probably find something you like by Dinah; my favorite is "Invitation".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyp1yvSBq5I

Picture this, you're at a bar you come to and listen to music to unwind. About four stools down there is an intriguing lady that attracts your attention. In order to be unobtrusive, you look in the mirror behind the bar at her reflection, and your eyes meet; that's when you smile. This intriguing lady finds you equally so .....

"Stardust", is one of the most popular songs I can think of, but when Dinah sings the song, it takes on a new persona; here's "Stardust" by Dinah. What are you're favorite tunes by Dinah Washington?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sopS-c1ca4E

Enjoy the music.

*****Here's "New York Sketchbook" from that album.*****

I like it. Sounded like NY to me. Which is amazing, considering I've never been there, save JFK. Maybe the Gershwin effect, An American in NY? :) But once you know it's by Mingus, you know there is something there, and the playing will always be of the highest order. All the listener has to do is pay attention.

I don't have that Album or that tune. I thought I had EVERYTHING by Mingus.

Cheers

HI Rok - as far as conductors go, the first thing to be understood is that this works quite differently nowadays than it did in the past. In the late 19th through say the middle of the 20th century, there were many little orchestras and opera houses all throughout Europe, especially in Italy (opera) and Germany (both). There were many places that conductors could go and sort of apprentice with someone, and learn on the job. This is how all of those famous conductors learned their trade. The last few decades, they just haven't had the opportunities to get that sort of training, with very rare exceptions. Every big orchestra does have an assistant conductor, but they rarely get to actually do much, mostly just kiddie shows. If they are lucky, the music director will work with them quite a bit, and be a good teacher.

They do go to music school, just like instrumentalists, but even there, they rarely get to step in front of the orchestra and actually conduct live musicians. So unlike instrumentalists, they rarely get to actually practice what they do. All they can do is study (often at the keyboard), learn scores, practice beat patterns, etc. Then when they get thrown to the wolves in the real world, they also have to deal with fund raising, etc., things they are not really taught in school. It is no wonder, given all this, that there are not many very good ones. It is a very strange set of skills required, almost none of which are easily taught.

And frankly, it is almost always a drag for the professional orchestra when a young conductor gets on the podium. All of us have much more experience with whatever piece is being played than the conductor does. So not only do they rarely get opportunities, when they do, the attitude of the group is not very good, normally, unless it is an unusually talented individual who is actually pretty good. It is usually very intimidating for them, and most don't handle that well, since they are of course supposed to be the leader.

A very interesting book to read is Norman Lebrecht's The Maestro Myth, by the way. Some very good bios in there of some of the really famous conductors through the years, too.

Learsfool:

The plight of assistant Conductors and the newly hired conductors seems similar to Backup Quarterbacks in the NFL, and New 2nd Lieutenants in charge of a platoon of Infantry. Tough Jobs!

I will get the book. Checked it out on Amazon. I love stuff like that. Perhaps it will show, that I am correct, in thinking that Rattle got the Berlin position, because of his hairdo! :)

Again, thanks for your time in doing this. Very thorough as always.

Cheers

O-10:

I have Dinah singing the Fats Waller songbook. Also a great CD of her singing with Brook Benton. "one more time brook" hahahahah I love to hear her say that.

What is the correct name of the song: 'What a difference a day MAKES ' or 'what a difference a day MADE '? I have accused the woman of mispronouncing that word for years.

The 100 best set lists the name as what a difference a day made!

Cheers

O-10:

These will bring you on board for sure!

Three great clips of Gergiev with the LSO and Vienna. Note the change in his appearance from each performance.

On the 'Scheherazade, he looked as if he had slept in his suit. Needed a haircut / shave, and forgot his baton. Someone should have pulled him aside. :) On Bolero he just looks weird and on Romeo & Juliet he plays it safe and goes Nehru.

BOLERO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODeNHRtVNO4

Scheherarade
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQNymNaTr-Y

Romeo & Juliet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxj8vSS2ELU

Outstanding Camera work on all three!! Outstanding playing!! I love to watch these folks play. Great shots of the Sax player on Bolero. The LSO wins the BABE battle hands down!! I think the LSO performances were taken at the PROMS. Great stuff!!

Cheers

Dinah Washington = sheer perfection!

**** What are your favorite tunes by Dinah Washington?***

As of this minute, Stardust is!!! Wow, that was really a compelling rendition. I don't recall hearing her singing such 'sophisticated' arrangements before. I always had her pegged as an down-home R&B singer. 'Invitation' was good, 'Stardust' was on a differnt level. You could hear her.

You are good at finding gems that are hidden in plain sight! Thanks for the clips.

Cheers

Learsfool, this sounded quite interesting when I heard it in the movie theater where "Shutter Island" was playing, but I most certainly could live without it after listening on my rig. My point is this, classical music sounds better on mega buck rigs, like at a movie theater, although it's possible that the brooding nature of the movie and the music matched. What do you think in regard to classical music and the quality of the rig?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iczj8-a7VMg

Enjoy the music.

Learsfool, so Jaap Van Sweden is an anomaly?

Acman3, I don't really understand your question? Van Sweden was a former concertmaster of the Concertgebouw Orchestra in Amsterdam, one of the best in the world, so he was a world class violinist who put it down and took up the baton. In a very real sense, he was better prepared to be a conductor than most who went to school specifically for it. It is always better if one actually has orchestral performance experience, and almost all of the really great conductors did have at least some. Jaap is exceptional in that he was actually a world class performer on the violin. Another example would be Anshel Brusilow, who, interestingly, also was music director of the Dallas Symphony early in his conducting career. There are also a few famous pianists who became decent conductors, like Ashkenazy, but that is more rare. Very rare indeed are conductors who didn't really play any instrument, and even these can pick at the piano a little.

Thanks Learsfool, Yes, you answered my question. I always thought that conductors worked their way towards being a conductor through musical ability, and those that showed an aptitude for conducting moved in that direction. I honestly had never thought about it.

I appreciate you taking the time to answer my stupid questions.

I was trying to find a decent performance of two of my all time favorites, 'Brazil' and "Begin the Beguin', with no success. But I did run across my main man!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovPmv5H8jdU

Cugat could learn from this guy!

Cheers

Not bad! Beautiful music and part of the theme music of a brilliant movie by the same name.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLAO5Z6T-rg

Cheers

better!! :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikutCJd13cM

Cheers

Rok, here is the most classic "Begin The Beguine".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzjXB4knxqM

Enjoy the music.

Just wanted to add a couple of thoughts to Learsfool's excellent comments about conductors; which I agree with. The nuances of the issue may be lost on those who don't have personal experience in this area. Lest anyone misunderstand, there ARE fine and extremely talented young(ish) conductors like (in addition to the ones mentioned) Alan Gilbert (NY Phil and a violinist), Nezet-Seguin (Philadelphia), Franz Welser-Most (Cleveland) among others. The role and importance of a first rate conductor to the success of an orchestra and it's performances should not be underestimated. It is the conductor who shapes the performance of a work and can make the difference between a performance that is lackluster and one that has musical meaning by way of being able to project his own personal vision of the music; but, perhaps even more importantly, having the technique to convey that vision in a way that makes sense to the players. A good conductor will convey that personal vision while at the same time allow some room (to varying degrees) for the individual player's vision; and allow a "relationship" between the player and the boss. An inferior inexperienced conductor will (at best), and as Learsfool points out, try to keep an overly tight grip on things and get in the way of good music making; or (at worst), simply create a musical mess.

One of the most interesting aspects of this issue is that one shouldn't be fooled by APPPARENTLY great baton technique. Just as with some of the players (any genre) that have been discussed here, some conductors simply have THE THING. That hard to describe ability to convey their musician vision to the players in a meaningful way in a way that transcends the usual criteria. This ability is often tied to having (or not) a sense of being relaxed and comfortable with their own physicality. I often get the sense when playing for bad conductors that what they could benefit the most from is dance lessons; they are stiff, there is no flow to their gestures. Conversely, some conductors can literally put their arms down and the sense of pulse they still generate is amazing; they have THE THING. I will mention some conductors that I have played for in various orchestras not as name-dropping but to hopefully make the point; also keep in mind, and this is VERY important, that some conductors excel with some repertoire and not others.

One of my favorite conductors is Neeme Jarvi. Jarvi is unusually comfortable with body movements and I love the fact that he put his arms down and with a simple gesture of the shoulder give a due or make a crucial musical point. He practically dances on the podium. Zdenek Macal, Ricardo Muti and James Levine are others who are able to connect with the orchestra in a way that is secure in a way that is difficult to explain. On the other hand a conductor like Lorin Maazel, who has simply unbelievable baron technique, can leave one totally cold and uninspired. In those way, they are all brilliant musicians. The most brilliant of all (in my experience) is Gergiev; but my experience underscores the importance of the repertoire involved. If someone made me pick the greatest musical experience I have ever had as a player it has to be playing Mussorgsky's "Pictures At An Exibition" under Gergiev. It was unbelievable how connected he was to the music (Russian, of course) and how well he conveyed what he wanted to the players even if his style is often completely unorthodox. On the other hand the "Bolero" previously posted shows how sometimes a particular conductor and certain repertoire just don't mix; and also highlights the one most simple and important aspect of a conductor's role: choice of tempo. The tempo of that Bolero is just too slow, with the end result that he players have difficulty with their deceptively difficult solos, and IMO robs the music of the feeling of what a bolero is all about. Personal opinion to be sure but here are some other versions to make my point, and notice in which version the solos are the most "in the pocket".

Too slow:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ODeNHRtVNO4

Too fast:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l5zyYF6_eyY

Just right. IMO, this is the perfect tempo for "Bolero":

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UPnWR1FgrBU

BTW, these are just versions available with video. Not my favorite recorded Bolero's at all. Enjoy.

My favorite 'Bolero'. Have many, but always play this one. Talk about building to a climax!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltdEGfmnIv0

Cheers

A conductor resembles a football head coach in many ways in terms of how they determine the degree of success of the team they lead. Or most any "manager" in a similar situation for that matter.

Managers and star players are two different things though as well in most cases.

Sorry for the typos: due=cue , baron=baton, musician vision=musical vision. How the hell does one disengage the spell checker on an IPad?

BTW, you see Rok, we CAN agree; Barenboim picks great tempos :-) That is a great Bolero.

Rok, I have "Stardust" on "Jazz Round Round Midnight"; she's accompanied by many of the artists we've already discussed, not a hint of R&B on this CD. It captures the essence of the person; she had a deep longing for something that could never be, her 8 marriages might be an indication of that.

"Honey, if I told you, you'd faint" was one of her responses to the "Three Wishes".
This CD captures the person inside the entertainer more than any other.

Enjoy the music.

**** you see Rok, we CAN agree****

Now Frogman, when have we ever disagreed?

Cheers

*****Rok, here is the most classic "Begin The Beguine".****

Not bad. I heard a few of his during my search. On several he seemed to be getting ready for the Ed Sullivan show, and I wanted to hear him jamming in Havana!!

Thanks

Cheers

Funny, I always associate Begin The Beguine with Artie Shaw. I believe it was in the late 30's or so and the first popular version after the Broadway musical it was from (like most of the popular tunes of the time) and became a hit for Shaw. Great tune with very unusual form.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zNcPnEc99UE

I was about to ask Learsfool to explain what he meant about the situation in Minnesota, but I read an article today, in the Nov 2013 issue of Gramophone that explains it all. Check it out. Also mentions the New York City Opera, the'Peoples Opera', in NYC, going into bankruptcy.

Rough time for the arts.

For all Time Warner Cable customers: Ovation will air the 'Battle of the Nutcrackers' starting on Monday, 13 Jan 2014. Late, due to the 'troubles'.

Cheers

The Frogman:

My current Gramophone magazine also says that Levine is now confined to a wheelchair. Any impact on his ability to conduct, from a player's point of view?

Cheers

@Acman - did not mean to imply at all that it was a stupid question! I just wasn't sure what you meant, and I wanted to explain that I would actually consider Van Sweden to be MORE qualified, not less, than many others, because of his extensive orchestral performing experience. He knows what gestures the musicians really need, and which ones they don't, and that sort of conductor in general also knows what sorts of gestures he can make for the audience's benefit and understanding that do not disrupt what the musicians are doing.

Frogman's post is an excellent elaboration of mine.

Rok, last I heard Levine is unable to conduct at all right now. My understanding is that it is uncertain whether he ever will again, but Frogman may know more? I will just add that conducting is more physically demanding than it appears to be - Levine is currently unable to make it through a concert physically. His musical ability of course remains.

Orpheus, I would disagree that one must have a megabucks rig for classical. What I would say is that classical music makes more demands on a system. For me and for many musicians, old school systems are better for classical - very efficient speakers, driven by low powered electronics. Horns and tubes are my personal favorite, and such a system can be put together relatively inexpensively compared to the rest of high end audio (which is good, otherwise musicians like me would be priced out of it!). But I don't want this thread to turn in to that type of discussion, that has been done over and over elsewhere on this site. By the way, just about all movie theaters still use horn speaker systems.

Rok, Levine has had to make adjustments to his conducting because he is confined to a wheel chair. His ability to convey to the players what he wants has not diminished. Aside from actual conducting technique he has an uncanny ability to put into words what he wants and what the player should aim for that adds a certain clarity to the process. Levine conducted the run of "Falstaff" a couple of months ago and is scheduled to conduct Berg's "Wozzeck" beginning next month. You may find these video's interesting; he addresses some of those issues:

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/james-levine-returns-to-met-charlie-rose-10-21-IhodjYjSSh2VrNdXj2rHeg.html

http://www.metoperafamily.org/video/2013-2014/falstaff/watch/james-levine-rehearses-falstaff/2866059273001

The Frogman:

The charlie rose interview is the most informative and interesting I have ever seen. Great stuff! Thanks.

The second clip was basically the Rose interview again, BUT, the short clip of the rehearsal with the singers, was priceless!!

Same with the short clip of the LvB 5th rehearsal. I would rather see the rehearsal than to see the actual performance. Crazy but true.

He mentioned doing 'Flastaff". I have that on LP box set, Vienna / Karajan. One of the most beautiful and captivating LP cover photos ever! Since Levine spoke so highly of it, I will have to get it on DVD now.

He was very open and honest about the help he received along the way. And to have the career he has had, while in constant pain for a large period of that time, just adds to his greatest.

I found his comments about singers, esp females, looking the part, to be very interesting. And sadly true. It never hurts to be beautiful.

Thanks for a really interesting post.

Cheers

Frogman, for my entire life I thought this was Latin American in origin. Music to me is what it convey's;

When they begin
the beguine
it brings back the sound
of music so tender
it brings back a night
of tropical splendor
it brings back a memory of green

I'm with you once more
under the stars
and down by the shore
an orchestras playing
and even the palms
seem to be swaying
when they begin
the beguine

to live it again
is past all endeavor
except when that tune
clutches my heart
and there we are swearing to love forever
and promising never
never to part

a moments divine
what rapture serene
to clouds came along
to disperse the joys we had tasted
and now when I hear people curse the chance that was wasted
I know but too well what they mean

so dont let them begin the beguine
let the love that was once a fire
remain an ember
let it sleep like the dead desire I only remember
when they begin the beguine

oh yes let them begin the beguine
make them play
til the stars that were there before
return above you
till you whisper to me
once more darling I love you
and we suddenly know what heaven we're in
when they begin
the beguine

These lyrics, plus the music convey Latin America. According to the creole of the Caribbean, especially in Martinique and Guadeloupe, the term "Beguine" applied to a style of music and dance, and in particular a slow, close couples' dance. This combination of French ballroom dance and Latin folk dance became popular in Paris.

Xavier Cougat's version convey's this better than Artie Shaw's version. Technically, you are right because Artie Shaw popularized it. My point beyond determining who's right or wrong, is to establish what music convey's to individuals; this is why music is always "subjective".

Enjoy the music.

Frogman, for my entire life I thought this was Latin American in origin. Music to me is what it convey's;

When they begin
the beguine
it brings back the sound
of music so tender
it brings back a night
of tropical splendor
it brings back a memory of green

I'm with you once more
under the stars
and down by the shore
an orchestras playing
and even the palms
seem to be swaying
when they begin
the beguine

to live it again
is past all endeavor
except when that tune
clutches my heart
and there we are swearing to love forever
and promising never
never to part

a moments divine
what rapture serene
to clouds came along
to disperse the joys we had tasted
and now when I hear people curse the chance that was wasted
I know but too well what they mean

so dont let them begin the beguine
let the love that was once a fire
remain an ember
let it sleep like the dead desire I only remember
when they begin the beguine

oh yes let them begin the beguine
make them play
til the stars that were there before
return above you
till you whisper to me
once more darling I love you
and we suddenly know what heaven we're in
when they begin
the beguine

These lyrics, plus the music convey Latin America. According to the creole of the Caribbean, especially in Martinique and Guadeloupe, the term "Beguine" applied to a style of music and dance, and in particular a slow, close couples' dance. This combination of French ballroom dance and Latin folk dance became popular in Paris.

Xavier Cougat's version convey's this better than Artie Shaw's version. Technically, you are right because Artie Shaw popularized it. My point beyond determining who's right or wrong, is to establish what music convey's to individuals; this is why music is always "subjective".

Enjoy the music.

begin the Beguine:

you can wiki it and get the facts / history. Cole Porter etc.......

A long time ago we talked about 'influences'. This is an example of latin influence. The lyrics are surely latin in style and content. :) After all, it took place on an island.

Cheers