Jazz for aficionados

This just played on the local PBS station.  "Big Band Sunday".

Pops is Pops, but the band really grabbed me.   Esp on my Polks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AVro_7bBrE

Cheers

I doubt if you will find too many "purse snatchers" here in Tokyo for a multitude of reasons;


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3LpzQJ31OQ&list=RDc3LpzQJ31OQ&start_radio=1&t=52


I talked to Frank Gant, Ahmad Jamal's drummer, in Chicago, who told me they had plane tickets for Tokyo; they had to leave the states in order to make a living. He was as easy to talk to as your next door neighbor.

This is a laid back trio and interview of one of the finest jazz pianist.

Maybe we need to try this?


https://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=Awr9FqoOxYdd80cArDeJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTIzMTM4c2s0BHNlY...

It's a funny thing Rok, I sold real estate, I know.

***** let me tell you what conservatives hate more than anything; that's when the person who moves into the new subdivision ...... has Black skin.

Black folks WISH that was the reason.   And the feeling is not limited to 'conservatives'.

cheers

p.s.
In case anyone would look for me, you know were to find me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui0EgRsFVN8

Rok, let me tell you what conservatives hate more than anything; that's when the person who moves into the new subdivision that offers homes with 3 bedrooms, 2 bath, play room. 2 car garage, swimming pool, plus subdivision security, has Black skin.

I do not know schubert, it could be or not, haven't asked them. As for the Naval Seal weddings or any long wedding ceremony, I am not quite into that, if somebody close to me asks me to attend, will join the party because I was kindly asked to, but can't say that I will be crazy about it (but that's a nice occasion to wear beautiful dress though). The Little Neon Chapel in Vegas, starting from $39 and 15 min of ceremony would suit me more. Advanced version includes Elvis as a priest. But I am not that advanced. 

Thank you Frogman for clearing that up, in a way that only a musically educated person could.

To that I might add, Bobby Timmons "Moanin" communicated the title of the tune to those who were down on their luck, and all they could do was "Moan".

Not meaning to put too fine a point of the (non)issue, it should be noted that this is certainly not the first time that two entirely different tunes by two different composers have had the same title. With that in mind, I fail to see what is contentious about these two different tunes sharing the name “Moanin”. I do completely agree that Bobby Timmons’ “Moanin” is the more important and admired of the two; although, obviously there are two “Moanins”. Timmons’ “Moanin” is a true Jazz standard and a Jazz composition of the highest order for specific and demonstrable reasons. For anyone interested:

First, from a historical viewpoint, it was one of the tunes that helped usher in the “funky-Jazz” style that took off during the late ‘50s. The recently mentioned Horace Silver was another big part of that movement and one will notice certain similarities between this tune and many of Silver’s tunes. Bobby Timmons’ TUNE is actually a far more sophisticated and “complete” composition than Mingus’. It has a great and immediately recognizable melody; and very evocative, as O-10 has often pointed out. It is in classic 32 measure, AABA form. The vast majority of Jazz standards follow this form. In the spirit of what Evelyn Glennie spoke of in Schubert’s great clip, when one listens, really LISTENS all this becomes easy to hear and no formal training is necessary. AABA form and Timmons’ “Moanin”:

One hears Timmons’ great melody for 8 measures (A), then it is repeated for another 8 measures (A). Then one hears the “bridge”, a different but related melody for 8 measures (B). Then finally, one hears the first melody again for 8 measures (A). AABA for a total of 32 measures. During the improvisations this form is followed.

As exciting as Mingus’ “Moanin” is, it really is just a bass ostinato (repeated musical line) played by the baritone saxophone and with horn parts which serve as background for the extended improvisations by various soloists. Part of Mingus’ genius was using otherwise simple musical ideas in ways that would create a tremendous amount of excitement and tension/release. Others of his compositions followed a more traditional formula as used by Timmons.

Here you go, pjw; as requested:

https://youtu.be/hWOfb2gFMlo

Note that in this version of Mingus’ “Moanin” as posted by you, the “tune” (the baritone ostinato) begins on page two following Cuber’s improvised solo. On the original with Pepper, the “tune” starts right away with the repeated baritone line (no improvised solo until later):

https://youtu.be/QfSTtQd5Wew

***** I had a good job and didn't save a nickel, plus that, I wish I could do it all over again.*****

Your Honor, the people rest.

Cheers

Rok, the only kid I had at that time was me, and I sent him to the best lounges in Detroit, St. Louis, Chicago, and Atlanta.

I had a good job and didn't save a nickel, plus that, I wish I could do it all over again.

***** "If you can't find a job, just be a good little boy and lay down and starve". It ain't going to happen dude.*****

Which brings us to the Police.  They are well trained and equipped to deal with folks that refuse to "lay down and starve".

Cheers

***** working class also refers to those who are unemployed and can't find a job*****

That's true when the unemployment is a temporary situation.  These folks have been 'unemployed' for generations!!   Some have never known of anyone having a job.   Never!!

I wonder how many folks crossing the southern border have found work while these folks 'can't find a job'.   Millions would be my guess.

Cheers

***** I was in Detroit when people drove new cars, dressed elegantly, lived in very nice homes, and enjoyed the best entertainment.*****

Cars, fancy dress, nice homes, entertainment.  hmmmmm

You forgot to mention setting aside money during the good times in order to send the kids to The University of Michigan etc...
slight oversight on your part, i'm sure. 

Cheers

Can conservative liberal; that's nonsensical "conservative" talk to begin with. How about cause and effect; that's what educated people deal with.

Rok, working class also refers to those who are unemployed and can't find a job; whether you like it or not, people all around this globe are going to do what they figure they have to do in order to survive; meaning, hookers got to hook, and purse snatchers got to snatch.

I see now, the conservative view is "If you can't find a job, just be a good little boy and lay down and starve". It ain't going to happen dude.

mary jo

The USAF has very few people who ever see any combat . It is far more just a job than other branches and they make more money and are promoted more than other branches .
Fact : The USAF is the greatest owner of Golf Courses in the world .

When I was an infantryman(only real soldiers) near what we called the Air Farce base, we used to say to say if we had to do 20 years for a pension
they should have to do 50 and it was not a joke .

Of course , there are a few exceptions like 0-10 !
Try to get to a Navy Seal wedding asap .

'Working Class' refers to people who work.

Cheers

Thanks all for your thoughts on my father.

frogman as I have listened to Timmons' Moanin' hundreds of times being a big Art Blakey fan naturally I compared it to Mingus' rendition which I have had the "Blues And Roots" album for 10 years or more now but have listened to Timmons' Moanin' 10x as much, being, as orpheus10 said, the one true Moanin'.


And yes, I tried many times when I did listen to the Mingus Moanin', to see if I heard any similarities in the notes and melody. Of course I could not find any and so "assumed" , not having any scholarly musical background, that maybe it was the same song played at an up tempo (there are many jazz tunes in which this is true). Anyway I'm happy I now know for a certainty that they are not the same song.

Maybe someone can post the sheet music on the 2 songs (just the opening pages) so I can see what is obvious to those in the music field.

***** this guy didn't ask to be born*****

Who  do ?

Cheers

pjw, your story is not overlooked, it is just that it is hard to answer on the story like that. Imagine two people who have gone through life tragedies. They sit next to each other in silence. They say nothing to each other but they understand all. Sometimes, no word can match that.

I agree with fro and schubi.
You should be proud of your dad.

Absolutely no one mentions the two "Moanin" things, other than to accept the fact that they are different.

Pjw, Frogman brought up a very contentious point in regard to "Moanin"; as far as I'm concerned there is only one true "Moanin", and that's Bobby Timmons "Moanin". My comment has to do with the title, not the music.

Ditto on what Frogman said about the music.


Jazzmeia Horn is truly fantastic; she captures the essence of the tunes she sings, and I will buy her music.

pjw
Heartfelt thanks to your father for answering the call and serving this country and the world.  Only warriors know the true horror and cost of war.  I certainly do not.  

81563 ,
War does two things to people , it makes them worse or it makes them better . Kicker is the better often takes a long time . Usually in about a 50/50 ratio for combat troops who are a small fraction of our Armed Forces in any modern war.
I read your clip about your dad and was moved . Nobody who was not there can say if your dad was or was not wrong in the path he took , self -medication is very common among soldiers who actually are in combat .I was aware the  25th had a hard time of it on Guadalcanal .
I wanted to say at the time he must have been a good man as he loved
his son enough to keep him out of wars that were not necessary and did not require you .The fact he beat his addictions for the love of his wife and family is heroic
in and of itself .
May he rest in peace .

Classic Mingus chart, pjw! What’s not to like? It’s always been one of my favorite Mingus charts in no small part because of Pepper’s playing on it. And, yet another example of why Booker Erving remains one of the most underrated tenor players. Great stuff!

The version by the Mingus Big Band is also great and arguably even more exuberant. Ronnie Cuber kills; amazing player and probably my favorite living baritone player. Thanks for the clips.

Question: your post suggests that there is a slower tempo version of Moanin’. The slower Moanin’ that I know is by Bobby Timmons and is an entirely different tune.

Here is a FASTER tempo rendition by the Mingus Big Band (I prefer the slower version that you posted):

https://youtu.be/xkXeMzRqkcY

Extreme gratitude and respect to your Dad and your family for his service.

mary jo,

Combat affects everyone differently. War is decided when all hope for diplomatic solutions are exhausted.The politicians who make these decisions are never close to the "tip of the spear"

I posted about how combat affected my father but nobody seemed to care or it was simply overlooked. Here it is again:

**************My father, born in 1919 and passed away in 2009 was a veteran of WWII and it had affected him for the remainder of his life. He served in the 25th Infantry Division - Tropic Lightning and relieved the USMC on Guadalcanal.

After the combat on Guadalcanal he was hospitalized for combat fatigue. He started to drink heavily and spent a lot of time in military jails for drunkenness and disorderly public conduct. After striking a superior he never saw combat action again. He did get an Honorable Discharge.

After the war he was an alcoholic until 1966 when I was 3 years old my mother gave him an ultimatum - quit drinking or I’m divorcing you. He went to a V.A. hospital for 2 weeks for detox and then attended AA meetings and never picked up another drink until he died. He never spoke of what happened over there on the Solomon Islands.

When I was entertaining thoughts of joining the military after high school he strongly disapproved and I never went in. This was in 1980. He was a regular in anti - war rallies and protests.**********

25th I.D. https://www.armydivs.com/25th-infantry-division
Since my father never told me about where he was or what he did in the war when I received his Honorable Discharge document at Rosecrans National Cemetery in San Diego California I found on the document a simple 2 word explanation of what he did (I had to wait until he died to finally know). It read: Campaigns: Guadalcanal. That's when I was able to research which Army units saw combat on the Solomon Islands and which division my father was in. It was nice to see after hearing only the negative side of his story my whole life.

What do you jazz aficionado's think of the up tempo version of Moanin' that Mingus does on the "Blues And Roots" album. Pepper Adams on baritone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3smUEzIqiI

Here is another version by the Mingus Big Band released in 1993 with Ronnie Cuber playing the baritone and some great work on the bass trombone by Dave Taylor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__OSyznVDOY
 
Here is a very new jazz vocalist on the scene who just releases her second album titled "Love And Liberation", a follow up to he 2017 album "A Social Call"

Jazzmeia Horn - winner of both the Thelonious Monk International Jazz Vocal Competition and Sarah Vaughan International Jazz Vocal Competition, singing Moanin', I Remember You, and East Of The Sun:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udvpSKCQDI4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGy5jPgLwzY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJyQ77Lwqnk

Not that long ago you spoke about guys in the USA military. I am not here to judge anyone, we all know what almost every war is about or what eventually turns out of each war. If it's not the defense for the bare life that caused you to participate, it's mostly because of the politics on the highest level that pulled you in just to use you for the interest of the few, often painted over with the questionable morality and carefully coated with the false fight for democracy. 

However, there are things like duty towards one's country which one has to respect. As the soldier on duty, you are there to do for what you are sent for. You are not there to question nor one man’s authority nor nation goals nor to ask questions in general even though you probably have them. So I am talking here about these guys. The soldiers with the questions that every single human being should have if facing a war in any form.

I attended a wedding ceremony not that while ago. It was small intimate ceremony. A small group was from Croatia and the other, bigger one, was of active soldiers from USA Air force, some of them with highest rankings in the service. Bride was Croatian but also serving military in USA. Needless to say, that I was actually in Croatia but felt like I was in the USA military base all the way through. But what strike my attention, were the manners of these USA guys. I haven’t seen that before. Not in that amount. And they did not play it, they were like that. As it is expected from the host, I wanted to show our hospitality, so was trying to be at the everyone’s service all the time but these guys excelled me. They were modest, polite, careful, helpful. Towards everyone with no exceptions. Showed me that I did not have to do anything but enjoy the ceremony. I was fascinated. Sadly, they were all married.

I am curious to know the names of the jazz players with the best manners…who that would be?

Rok, "liberal, conservative" is a truly foolish dichotomy, that's because it puts working class people in a camp where they don't belong.

Let's try "good, bad"; "honest, dishonest"; "rich, poor (working class); those are better dichotomies.

I'm going to take that "purse snatcher" liberal, conservative where you want it to go. First, the guy was poor, dumb, from one parent family (no parental guidance); let's face it, this guy didn't ask to be born; he woke up one day and there he was, in the middle of the ghetto, and if snatching purses was what he had to do in order to survive; look out world.

My view looks at millions of people; people with good jobs don't snatch purses. People with good jobs are not homeless. I was in Detroit when people drove new cars, dressed elegantly, lived in very nice homes, and enjoyed the best entertainment.



While dumb people were arguing over irrelevant BS, rich people were shipping jobs offshore. That's when one day, the working class woke up high and dry; what you see is what you get; tent city LA, crime city everywhere.

If you absolutely, positively, have  to be in a band, this be it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfEU6YdlL5Y

Cheers

Rok, that's reggae; try this one ;


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-5E6_qtXAw

Rok, we are in 100% agreement; I didn't like the bad video, so I decided to find a good video, unfortunately the music wasn't as good, but we get a better look at the ladies.

That tune is on your CD.

Chicago:

When my youngest sister finished college, her first job was as a social worker in Chicago. She was in ’I will change the world' mode.

After her purse was snatched for the third time, she quit. When she left, she left all her pie in the sky, Liberal ideals somewhere on the South Side.

But still, it is considered one of the most livable cities in America. The good parts are very beautiful. Like all cities.

Cheers

These folks were all the rage in Germany during the Disco era, which lasted longer over there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta42xU2UXLA

Cheers

Zap Mama:

The first one, with the bad video, was very good.   reminded me of the CD we both have.

The second one, with the decent video, was a just little too hip-hop-ish for me.   When you see tank tops and baseball caps and t-shirts, noise is sure to follow.  The turntable stuff did not fit with what I thought their music was all about.
 
  But it was also very much European pop.   The sort of thing you would see on European TV.   Remember Boney M?
They are supposed to be fusing or merging European pop music with African music.   The ones I posted on the other thread do that very well.

Nice clips.

Cheers

Please contrast the two performances of the same song.   Note the differences in dress.  It really does matter, and indicates volumes. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2o-iDeCd50


With the old outdated folks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3C9L6VzOdY

Cheers

This is my favorite by "Zap Mama", and now we get to see them;


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pUk3O81W1U


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRp6sfYRXEA

Yes, she was awesome.   She always is.   She is also, always different.

One of my favorites.   We don't know how great and important she is.
We will one day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwaWyLnkebU

Cheers

Rok, I bet that if I applied, I could get in the Guinness Book of world records for the person who has heard the most groups and versions of "Nica's Dream", and without a doubt, that was the best I have ever heard. Dee Dee and her band put everything they had into that performance; she put so much emotion into it that I heard and felt the essence of "Nica's Dream."

No I have not, but I have heard Silver and Dee Dee. 

Like Ella, she can do more with her voice than most guys can with their instruments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GrfjdNhAZM

And the man himself with quite a group.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UZqmNHLbxg

This has to be the most recorded tune in Bebop.

Cheers

Hey Rok, I bet you haven't heard this "Nica's Dream";


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8Bd7UIJlPQ&list=OLAK5uy_kytgnI-F3NxBRZevCNR9D9Aeh1zotdWWU&i...

Absolutely brilliant!  Fabulous explanation of why it is a total myth that improvising musicians have a monopoly on emotion and expression.  As she says, listen, really LISTEN and this becomes obvious.  Thanks for the clip.

This great Scottish percussion artist and even greater musician is stone-cold deaf and hears better than 99% of the human race !
https://youtu.be/IU3V6zNER4g?t=24         
You won't hear a better clip !