Jazz for aficionados
Speaking of slavery... Just a reminder on Liberia case. Liberia was founded as a colony for former African-American slaves ( "send them back"). The ones who came at that time to Liberia, imposed modern slavery on natives by exploiting them for labor. Long live liberty... Back to jazz... https://www.bbc.co.uk/music/reviews/xm4h/ Gary Bartz Uhuru Sasa https://youtu.be/rsxht79qbMc Gary Bartz Love Ballad https://youtu.be/MC7gHaOJ4Gw |
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That means that your reality is determined by what you, "Billy Bob and Bubba", discussed over a quart of moonshine in Mississippi.***** The discussion was with Colonel Beauregard. And no self respecting Bigoted, Narcissist would be caught dead drinking "moonshine'. We think too much of ourselves. That's a drink for the common man. I was always partial to I.W. Harper. Cheers |
I hope you can appreciate the positive nature of this comment. As Schubert correctly pointed our supposed disagreement (about music) is, and has been, “not so much”. Of course there has been disagreement. Why wouldn’t there be? We all have opinions and it is highly unlikely that any two people will agree on everything. However, there has been a hell of a lot more agreement than disagreement. I think the key is to use the disagreement as a way to have better understanding instead of immediately jumping to “the dark side” and shutting down the dialogue; or worse...far worse. Regards. https://youtu.be/gsBC5C5ERho |
Rok, have you ever heard of "The Phenomenology of Guist?" I sat at a table where two college professors were discussing it, and although I listened intently, I couldn't quite grasp what it was about. After much studying, and observing "Hegel's Concept of Geist", 20 years later, I finally understood it. How remarkably simple it was after I understood it. In a nutshell, it states that each man's "reality" is determined by his "Phenomenology of Guist". That means that your reality is determined by what you, "Billy Bob and Bubba", discussed over a quart of moonshine in Mississippi. And since they have ascertained it to be the truth, there can be no doubt about it. |
Schubert, re “disagreement”. Exactly! I’m good with that. Great Gonzalo, thanks! I posted this the first year (!) of this thread. From his American debut recording. Although written by a Mexican composer, possibly the most popular ”Cuban” bolero: https://youtu.be/EWtucrfzCCg |
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The psychological aspects of slavery and "Jim Crow" are alive and well, there is no past.***** Well, that would excuse errrr I mean explain so much. If only it were true. Whew!!! We don't want to lose those crutches. They are like well worn house slippers. So comfortable. And always there when needed. Cheers |
@orpheus10 & @schubert I have found that Women, will confide to their friends, their most intimate and personal problems. All they expect is for the friend to listen and show understanding and maybe be sympathetic. But above all, to listen. When you present problems to a Man, they think the person is asking them to DO something. To solve the problem. Or at the least, tell them what to do. So, what do you want us to DO, about Slavery and Jim Crow? Cheers Btw, the Jazz Queen of Croatia is exempt from the question. |
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What is your take on deserting the Kurds who did much of the heavy lifting against ISIS ?***** Another shameful episode. I don't see why anyone would help us in the future. This time, it's because we have a President who is not a politician, has no policy doctrine in mind, and is too arrogant to listen to advice. He just tries to do what he promised he would do in the election. I think he sees that as the safe way. Of course we did the same thing in Vietnam, Irag and Afghanistan. This does benefit Putin and the guy in Turkey. You do the math. Maybe we will have the decency to arm the Kurds and provide air cover. They are good fighters, and with proper arms they will take care of the Turks and the Syrians. Russians also. Cheers |
I would like to point out an artist that I don't know from "Adam's house cat"; Dan Wilson on guitar. Everybody knows Joey DeFranco, but how many people know Dan Wilson? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ3f1Y8Aw_U |
Fortunately, some of the best works by lesser known artists have been posted. I would like to keep that going by posting "Sonny Criss" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crhYor3nbvo "The Isle of Celia"; that's an island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean where I am stranded for life with the fascinating and beguiling "Celia". |
pryso. Ginger Baker trio is the core of the band with Baker on drums, Ron Miles on trumpet, and Artie Moore on bass. The rest are various "guest musicians" hence the DJQ20 on the album cover. DJQ20 stands for "The Denver Jazz Quintet - to - Octet. See a summary of the album here: https://www.allmusic.com/album/coward-of-the-county-mw0000241034 That the album was released in 1999 when James Carter was 30, and they put on the album cover "Special guest James Carter", is a testament to the virtuosity of Carter even at 30 years old he was so well known by jazz aficionado’s (he had been playin the sax since he was 16) especially in his home town of Detroit and NYC. Obviously putting Carter on the cover was to help album sales. This "Ginger Baker Trio" is Baker with Bill Frisell and Charlie Haden: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8GJdPD53w4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49Z2ykdW2gI And in 2014, Baker recorded another jazz album titled "Why" with interesting interpretations of Wayne Shorter’s "Foot Prints" and Sonny Rollins’ "St Thomas". The sax player for this recording, Pee Wee Ellis, who took lessons from Sonny Rollins but gained his notoriety with James Brown and Van Morrison, shows he can play jazz as well as R & B https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZp9SSDwKeE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ndjnq40e6A8 "Aiko Biaye" , from the "Why" album live in Madrid 5/06/2014: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azOczMqyu90 |
While the best artists have been posted, their best works have not. This is just one person's opinion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4mNF1G8g6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXZWbr2fFrU |
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Great clips, O-10. Context is important for the player; just as it is for, and influences the PERCEPTION of the player by the listener. As you say, Pepper always sounded great, but I don’t hear anything IN GENERAL that makes me feel that Adams, the player, sounded better as a sideman than as a leader. For a player of that caliber that would be a first since, as a leader, a player will have more freedom than he does as a sideman and would be playing with a rhythm section that he feels most comfortable with. I do agree wholeheartedly that some leaders do bring out the best in players, especially young players in need of “schooling”. Just my opinion and only for the sake of discussion. Case in point. I came across this live version of “Three Little Words” while posting the “Urban Renewal” clips. Obviously this is just one example and arguably irrelevant. Clearly not Byrd nor Mingus, but Pepper as sideman with the Bill Evans Trio. I was surprised how hesitant and not fully engaged he sounded: https://youtu.be/AdjAFbGej1U Same tune with his own trio: https://youtu.be/LlDMfIjB8Ps Thanks for the great clips. |
Getting back to more important things , you guys need to concentrate on THE greatest jazz piano man still breathing ! https://youtu.be/UlmtAuhUPbI?t=8 |
My bad frogman, I should of said something taking you out of the picture writing below your comments . I just had everyone in general and 0-10 in particular in mind . rok, to a considerable degree we can change History . Trauma roles down,even heavily in DNA , from generation to generation and they are known ways to change that by treating young children , Very little IS done because it is expensive and not wanted by powers that be in a divide and conquer society. Most of the work has been done , including clinical , at Cambridge , Stanford and John Hopkins . In historical time , "jim crow" was born the day before yesterday and the civil war an hour before that .And slavery IS more traumatic than combat . Nobody sold a soldiers dad, mom , wife and kids down the river ,to be never be seen again , in any American war . .What is your take on deserting the Kurds who did much of the heavy lifting against ISIS ? |
In my opinion, as good as the late and great Pepper Adams was, he always sounded better with Donald Byrd, or Mingus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIu87qCZnJ4 Although that might be an exception, the rest of his best is with Donald Byrd or Mingus; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jpFtZ9KmvI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1JXuN13l6A Mingus brought out the best in everybody. |
Thanks for the clips, pjw; great stuff! Tomorrow is the great Pepper Adams’ birthday! Early Pepper, with Mel Lewis swinging like mad: https://youtu.be/1QslvRwWfsI https://youtu.be/Y4HkSasaYkQ Not so early: https://youtu.be/ZR_cedrvr7c Later Pepper, and maybe my favorite of his recordings: https://youtu.be/ujSCeg5YEtE https://youtu.be/tOCZddFI1tU https://youtu.be/lg7Hm5aE8mI |
Ginger Baker had a wild life. Anyone else watch the 2012 documentary "Beware Of Mr. Baker" will understand Baker’s wild ride through life. I’m surprised he made it to age 80. May he rest in peace. That Art Blakey, Elvin Jones, and Max Roach were three of Baker’s biggest influences, does not surprise me. You can see how much he idolized Blakey in that drum solo duel recorded and transferred to VHS with poor tracking. I wish some engineer could clean it up. Baker was also heavily influenced by African tribal music and its rhythmic beats. He called Africa home on a few occasions. Baker recorded some half dozen jazz albums in the 90’s From "Coward Of The County" with a young James Carter on tenor sax and bass clarinet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HRrQBlqqvs The Blakey/Baker video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qghrsBfSbgk |
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but in my real world listening time she more than holds her own.***** I agree. I have always felt Ella was in a class by herself, and she may well be, but, I'm not sure she is at the top of class when it comes to Jazz. Absolutely 'perfect' voice, but maybe her repertoire was not as JAZZY as I would have liked. Now, I love Dee Dee Bridgewater. Cheers |
Jazz and female Jazz/Standards singers have dominated my collection, listening and live performance attendance for many years. Most/many of the artists you could name I enjoy and own, but that said and done, Dinah Washington is not considered in the same company as Ella, Sarah and many others...but in my real world listening time she more than holds her own. |
frogman, Larry Young is a favorite of mine as well. Last year I bought a double disc live in Paris album here: https://www.amazon.com/Paris-ORTF-Recordings-CD-Deluxe/dp/B0188EOHOY Of course I have Unity which may be his best recording. Here is more on the ORTF recordings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV-_yQAO7aU And here is something from Tony Williams and Larry Young: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AY4KHCwFl8 Young with Jimi Hendrix https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBErvhTAIWg Young also recorded with Carlos Santana, Jack Bruce, and John McLaughlin. |
The Plain Truth: Slavery was the best thing that ever happened to Black folks. (got them out of Africa) (a green card was not an option in the 1600’s.) Jim Crow was the second best thing that ever happened to Black folks. (a parallel and separate society that led to great achievements in music, sports, and literature. Against all odds. This would include Jazz.) Since history cannot be changed, what is the point of whining about it ad-nauseam. Slavery and Jim Crow are also the most enduring crutches ever!! The ’swooshing’ sound you hear, is people from every part of the globe, doing what ever it takes to get into this country. By hook or by crook. And all they see is opportunity at every turn. Several weeks ago, a man fell out of the wheel well of a jet coming in for a landing at London’s Heathrow airport. Of course he was dead and a block of ice. From Ghana I think. Outside for 9 Hours at 33,000 feet, at 500+ miles per hour. -60 degrees I think. Anything to get the F**k out of Africa. Cheers Btw, folks continue to die by the thousands each year, trying to get to Europe from North Africa, by crossing the Mediterranean in rubber boats. And pay thousands of dollars each for the chance. Maybe a 'Thank You Jesus' is in order, instead of the whining. |
Schubert, you have encapsulated the biggest parts of the problem: A. this is a corporatocracy, B. As you put it "deep seated values"; as I interpret that; you might as well be talking to a block of concrete. On the other side of the ledger, we have multitudes all over this country who are enduring the worst hardships in my lifetime, and I’m an old man. People are living in third world conditions, whole cities full of them; I feel their pain. In the richest most powerful country on the planet. There is one group we’ve left out, and they’re the one’s who were living on "The Gold Coast" when all this misery started; they have actually moved on up to beyond my comprehension. When primarily jazz musicians were heroin addicts, the only cure was prison, but now we have young people all over this country addicted and overdosing. Is prison the answer for them? Lets talk about the people who don’t want to discuss these problems (to exclude everyone on this thread); the politicians want us to believe everything is just "hunky dory" since they’re doing just fine. As a person who is aware of when and how the multitudes were fleeced, and being a witness to the incredible suffering that’s going on all across this country as a result of that fleecing, I am compelled to do my part in exposing all the factors responsible for this hell on earth that many are living. |
Well, then my apology; it sure looked that way in the text. What you say about the odds may be true, but I’ve known some who have changed their deep seated views; and not always in the “expected” direction. Still, even it true, it is no excuse for not showing respect and having a modicum of tolerance for a different point of view. Unless, of course, anyone of us considers himself all-knowing and infallible. |
I make NO assumptions about your points., I wasn’t even thinking of you when I wrote . My point is they are irrelevant , as are mine, in a Republic structured like the USA . I agree this is not a place to talk about it . As I said , scientific study after study shows the odds of any adult with deep,convictions is highly unlikely to change then . |
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Well said, Schubert. I would only add that the assertion “never will” is not necessarily true. This goes to why I have refused to comment on politics on this thread for quite some time; although I did so early in the history of the thread. I won’t comment on politics, but since I care about the thread and it’s subject matter, I don’t mind commenting on the “process” of discussing issues here. The problem as I see it has been, not that there is disagreement, but that those with a differing point of view, or that choose to not discuss such matters on a music (!) thread are often demeaned and presumed to be uncaring of others, unsympathetic to their plight, having blinders on, etc., etc. Assumptions that are completely inappropriate and often off the mark. Were this not the case and if respectful and open minded dialogue were to ensue, some points of view just might be changed. Otherwise, as has happened here time and time again the effort becomes self defeating. As always, wishing our OP only the best. |
That is true 0-10. but on here we are just a hand full of people enjoying jazz. The odds of anybody changing their mind about politics is zero.This is a Republic, in no sense of the word, a democracy . Every one who wants to know what you say already knows what you say and those who don't never will . In a country where the Supreme Court ruled a corporation is a person with all the rights of any person , unique to the world , and their lobbyists write most acts of Congress there will be no change ever . Your fighting the good fight and I admire you for that . But I'd rather see you back off the stress which can shorten your days . God Bless you . it |
Tomorrow is the great and under appreciated organist Larry Young’s birthday. Coltrane influenced, he broke the typical mold for organists by incorporating Coltrane’s modal language. One of my very favorite recordings. I’ve posted it previously, but worthy of a revisit. Amazing lineup; Young, Woody Shaw, Joe Henderson and Elvin Jones: https://youtu.be/GYQNsuzMXiQ https://youtu.be/tVSWEuSfg9c https://youtu.be/_vVHT-wSLik https://youtu.be/LnIWn2kqHsY |
Nsp, after reading your thoughtful post, I feel compelled to respond. If things were "Normal" in this country, I could stay on the subject of jazz, but everything is very abnormal in regard to the working class in this country, and anyone who can't see it has blinders on. Back in the 80's, I donated my time as a technician to get a TV station for the homeless going. During that time I observed "who" was homeless. Homelessness is a lifestyle for "Winos"; naturally they were present; very very few, what I call "normal" people were homeless, and when they were, we helped them get jobs, and their own dwelling. People with mental problems should be in institutions, not wandering the streets homeless. In the 80's, I also sold "The American Dream"; that's a nice home in a nice suburb where the kids could feel free to play and ride their bikes without fear of a stray bullet. A job at any of the auto manufacturing plants, or aircraft plant would qualify one for this dream. You have no idea how important that dream is. That dream has become obsolete for far too many people in this country. I like the way the jazz conversations are going, but since my mind is going in other directions, there's not much I can add; but I do enjoy reading the posts, and possibly buying some of the music. |
