O-10, I agree, great tunes.
Jazz for aficionados
Jazz for aficionados
I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Enjoy the music.
I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Enjoy the music.
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Billy Vaughn: Windmills of your mind. Great tune, but undistinguished version by Vaughn. Neil Diamond and/or Johnny Mathis are much better according to my analysis. No? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OohatUzO-gQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgNkK-P_Ea4 Cheers |
Maybe, it's the album cover, since I agree with you both, but I still like the album. Sometime the music we like is related to something other than the music; for example something memorable might have happened on the day I bought that album, and I associate what happened that day with the music. The same thing can occur with perfume; get a whiff passing by some lady and get intoxicated, pheromones just run wild. This comes under the heading of strange psychology by association. You probably never considered all the fringe benefits you git on this thread from hanging out with me. Enjoy the music. |
Two great versions. Mathis is great; very classy singer. Here's a different idea on what to do with the tune. Joe Lovano on tenor sounds great; every bit as unusual and original as Abbey Lincoln. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qsPwQcWqxw8 |
Hormones were acting up on and off the the screen when I saw those very scenes at the drive in; that was a most memorable movie; I was driving the "Deuce" then. Johnny Mathis; I can't think of anything I don't like by him; so many sweet young faces flash before me when I hear him; all the girls liked "Johnny Mathis, always good to bring one of his albums on a social call. That music makes me think of the time when I was young. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG4-QlBu7mw Enjoy the music. |
I like clifford Jordons sax on this one; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF6q6XKKrik Enjoy the music. |
Here is a really nice album all the way through, but I'm sure you already have it; in case you don't, get it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGivttfAGlU&list=PL872DDBDD38965152 Enjoy the music. |
Rok, that was a great clip from 'The Thomas Crown Affair', with McQueen and Dunaway. The remake, with Brosnan and R.Russo is not bad either, but 'happy end' spoils it. Maybe we should start a movie thread, or at least point to some works of art (paintings as well) who we consider to 'have soul', as it seems that we are constantly going back to that issue Any thoughts? My proposition, one of my favourite painters. He portraits loneliness, isolation, solitude and silence, all things that aching soul might express with jazz music too. Edward Hopper https://youtu.be/ByxRQMCitJo |
This goes back to a comment from 2013 about the original Broadway cast album of Ain't Misbehavin. I saw this cast in its Broadway run many many times. Pure joy. What you hear on this recording is only a fraction of what you heard on stage. Let alone seeing the wonderful staging and the visual performances themselves. It fact to me it is a real disappointment. But if you didn't see it it's a must have. |
Errol Garner, from "Concert By The Sea"; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEN8pbFDMcE&list=PLFNXF9a5upesFDucvjZdBFQ1vXxHi9Xv6 |
*****
He portraits loneliness, isolation, solitude and silence, all things that aching soul might express with jazz music too.***** His painting certainly do. I don't think Jazz does. Loneliness and Isolation are the antithesis of Jazz. At least in my humble uninformed opinion. There, I saved The Frogman some energy. No? The music was by Carl Davis. He did the soundtrack of 'The World At War'. Great Composer. Cheers |
I like the premise, Alex. Beautiful collection of Pollak's works. I am also a fan. My wife, an amateur seamstress, has a reproduction of this on the wall of her crafts room: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girl_at_Sewing_Machine#/media/File%3AEdward_Hopper_-_Girl_at_a_Sewin... Interesting go that you should bring up film scores; the music accompanying the Hopper clip is from the film "The French Lieutenant's Woman". Beautiful music and, per your comments, made me think of this which I can easily see substituting for the Carl Davis score in your clip: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fb3Gdtu0LS0 Stunningly soulful: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_of_a_Woman_(Leonardo)#/media/File%3ALascapigliata.jpg |
Rok, I never use generalizations of any kind, as you can read in my last post as well. But, we can certainly discuss are the 'loneliness and isolation' really antithesis of (some) jazz... I am sure that you know how easy is to find examples which support my thought (and vice versa, of course, so much jazz with exact the opposite feeling) So,just a few links on some jazz standards... https://youtu.be/B7R6dp74fR0 https://youtu.be/6XEoZ0YiMPs https://youtu.be/IKayR1oqC7w https://youtu.be/OCqZE6oBSsQ https://youtu.be/IIQc20cK5Vc https://youtu.be/fXZR4zxMDeA Frogman, Bakers music is (to me) always first beautiful, than sad. If it was the other way around, I am not sure how could anybody endure much of it. Also I have few reproductions of E.H. at my home, prints, but on canvas, they look quite 'real' that way. |
Alex, I tend to agree with you that his music is, first of all, beautiful; but, as with that of Bill Evans, Stan Getz (and obviously others also) there is, for me, always a pervasive feeling of melancholy in what they project musically. In Baker’s case, it’s very easy to understand why this is the case, he led a very troubled life. I am sure you know about Baker’s life outside music, but you may find this interesting: http://www.jerryjazzmusician.com/2002/06/james-gavin-author-of-deep-in-a-dream-the-long-night-of-che... |
A non sequitar relative to the current discussion, but... YIKES! Hope he has a fire extinguisher near at hand. Seems to me there is significant risk of the piano catching fire. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHYSb-o0AUs&ab_channel=EldarDjangirov-Topic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqlnJN7G5UY&ab_channel=EldarDjangirov-Topic Reading Wikipedia, I can see I’m late to the party. Typical. But still, new to me and maybe some of you. Worth sharing to hear for the first time or yet again. |
Frogman, I agree, of course, only wanted to say that sometimes its a must (for me) to look (listen) first from the perspective of ’beauty’ , rather than melancholy, because otherwise it would be too emotionally overwhelming.(sometimes is, depending how much of it we let it affect us, in certain moment.) |
Ghosthouse, in some ways, jazz is almost like a religion, especially the standards. Since I'm one of the leading proponents of this faith, I consider it sacrilegious when an artist defiles one of the sacred tunes by playing it all wrong to the extent that the tune loses it's original meaning, and empathy with those who it was meant for. "Moanin" was specially written for those who are severely down on their luck, and under those circumstances can do nothing but "Moan"; that's a bad fix to be in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bah68kQlnAQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TdY6iqV2k0 Enjoy the music. |
Today is the great McCoy Tyner's birthday. I think the term "great" is a bit overused, but in this case I think there are few musicians more deserving. His solo work has been fairly well covered here as well as his associations with other truly great players, most notably as part of one of, perhaps THE, greatest rhythm sections ever: that of Coltrane's classic '60's quartet. An incredibly powerful player with a huge sound on the piano he also had a gentler side and his influence on other piano players and cannot be overestimated: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LDYkdd1FkaA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sBwuwZh6G6g |
**** jazz is almost like a religion **** This is true; for some. I would then ask that we consider all the single-mindedness, upheaval, hatred and violence that a strict and rigid interpretation of religion has wrought on humanity. With the exception of the violence and hatred (I hope), I think that the parallels to some of our discussions (?) about music are pretty obvious. I don’t agree that besides having to be musical there is any ONE valid way to play any ONE tune; even a standard like "Moanin". My reaction to the "Eldar" clips is similar as O-10’s; but for different reasons and we may be saying the same thing. One need only look at the dramatically different from the original ways that jazz tunes have been played by musicians while still being valid and musical: "Giant Steps" with a Latin feel, "Stella" as a bossa, some slower, some faster, etc.. The problem with the "Eldar" clips for me is not one of style, but simply that I am left with the feeling of "where’s the music?". This young piano player has amazing technical ability and the notes pour out of him without any effort, but it all sounds to me a bit like a machine making the sounds. Not really fair to compare a young piano player to McCoy, but here’s McCoy again. Keep the fire extinguisher handy, but this time we may, in fact, need it to put out the fire instead of hitting him over the head with it: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PukuQPUKfyU |
Frogman, you must be thinking about Isis and Osiris; this religious sense is a long way from that. I feel music, when you see notes on a piece of sheet paper. I can think of two dozen different way I've heard "Moanin" but never like that; maybe you didn't get my drift in regard to the emotional aspect of the tune. |
Mildly disappointed of course that those two Eldar tracks weren’t cause for celebration for the 3 of you. Your various reasons while valid for you personally don’t diminish my enjoyment of him. Easy to get mesmerized by the technical fireworks but I do also hear music in his performance (listen to other tracks on the album) and wonder what more he will bring with further years and increasing maturity. Worth checking the Wikipedia entry on him. He comes from a very different culture so not surprising he brings an unfamiliar style or interpretive reading to standards (or so I think). There are a few other "covers" on the album that Sweet Georgia and Moanin’ were taken from. Those too (e.g., Nature Boy, Maiden Voyage) sound WAY different...almost unrecognizable, even to me. Because I’m not as grounded in jazz as you more seasoned aficionados, I’m also not married to a particular style or mode of interpretation applied to a given composition. I don’t have expectations. Consequently, this music just sounds very fresh and different to me. NEW even. Horses for courses, as they say. |
**** I feel music, when you see notes on a piece of paper **** Wrong, O-10, please don’t be so quick to turn things contentious. In my opinion that is the kind of unnecessary divisive and judgmental comment that gets us in trouble. If you think that you have a monopoly on feeling the emotion in music you would be very mistaken. There is always room for clarification, expansion, and even disagreement about specifics. I could easily make a similarly negative statement and say (when looking at a bouquet): "I see roses, petunias and lillys, you see flowers". Please read my comments again and note: **** and we may be saying the same thing.**** Your follow up post, aside from the snide comment, was much more clear as to the meaning of what it seems you meant to say the first time around. Perhaps endeavoring to be as clear as possible would serve all well. |
Ghosthouse, I'm glad to hear you defending your unique view of this music. "Because I’m not as grounded in jazz as you more seasoned aficionados, I’m also not married to a particular style or mode of interpretation applied to a given composition. I don’t have expectations. Consequently, this music just sounds very fresh and different to me. NEW even. Which reminds me of the three blind guys seeing an elephant for the first time. Frogman, I didn't think that was contentious; it was just a statement of fact. Statements of fact are neither judgmental or divisive; they just are; like the sky is blue, unless it's cloudy, and then beyond the clouds it's still blue. You took the statement "jazz is almost like a religion" and turned it into one of those "Islam" type things where you can get beheaded for blasphemy. |
Rok, you can appreciate this; I've been hanging with the analogers to pick up some tips on cartridge installation, and for sure I went to the right place. They were also discussing 20K tone arms and special records, but when they got to music; if I had to be on a deserted island with them guys, it would not take very long before I would try the long swim. What they call music, would make a lot of noises sound good; like tree frogs for example, I like the sound tree frogs make better than the music they recommended. Those are the recruits the Frogman is seeking for this thread. (it's a joke). That's why I say all music is "subjective" because I don't have the right to call their music noise, even if tree frogs sound better. How about some "Charley Brown" Christmas music for a mood changer? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVB18xbRMI4&list=PL0z5a235GY1awuZeBQBO6ZWQfg95Gkg5N Enjoy the music. |
I guess that we are now, as one of our more wisely disciplined contributors once stated, adding to the "charm" of this thread. O-10, it IS contentious, and it most certainly is not a statement of fact. You apparently missed the point that I was making. That point related to your comparison of jazz to a religion; THAT comparison is a statement of fact. The nuances of what you meant were not clear (they were made clearer in your follow up post) and it is also a fact that you used terms like "sacrilege", "defile" and "sacred"; so, ....... Now, the contentious part. One thing that I think everyone here can agree on is that the most important aspect of any art form is that it can elicit an emotional response; that is why everyone listens to music. The degree to which it succeeds obviously depends on the listener's likes and biases and quality of the music. To suggest, in the context of a discussion about music and in a generalizing way, that a listener is incapable of "feeling the emotion in music" is judgmental and contentious. To be able to "see the notes" does not erase the emotional connection; au contraire. Striving for clarity 😊 |
New to me. Heard it on the local FM station, called in to get the artist and tracked it down. I love this version of '12 days of Christmas'. On order. I hope you curmudgeons can get in the Christmas spirit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIDoNopD5RI Cheers |
Hello again, O. I did appreciate your concern that I might have been offended by your earlier comments about Eldar's take on "Moanin'". I was not offended and my subsequent comments really weren't intended as a defense of my "unique" point of view. On a good day, I can consider various conflicting points of view and learn from them. Though somewhat critical, these broaden my appreciation of his performance strengths and weaknesses. Now, as far as me not being as grounded in jazz and therefore not having expectations and these couple of factors leading to a comparison to the blind guys groping the elephant - that does warrant some further discussion. Am I the only blind guy you had in mind? If so, that certainly smacks of someone taking an objectivist stance on jazz appreciation: "I'm better informed. I've cultivated better taste. My long years of listening enable me to recognize good jazz vs bad jazz. You, on the other hand, aren't well enough schooled to distinguish between the two." That's a position I can accept. Might or might not apply in this case. BUT it seems to run counter to your usual subjectivist stance. Art history is a sequence of new styles being declared barbaric by proponents of "the old school". Can being enamored of and married to a particular style blind one (deafen one, in this case) to the merit of other styles? I think that's a risk. Blindness or deafness afflicts all of us to some extent. As much as you, Rok and Wynton seem to wish it were so, jazz cannot be frozen and preserved in exactly the same forms as found over the span of a few decades. Its beauty and strength is how alive and constantly changing it is as a medium of expression - even if I can't always "go there" or appreciate the latest frontier. I actually think I have a clue what you object to in that rendition of "Moanin'. [Aside from style violating one's sensibilities and expectations, how much moanin' has Eldar ever really had occasion to do, anyway? 'It ain't "authentic.' someone I know would say.] To me, the original intent behind "Moanin" as a touchstone for evaluating the Eldar piece is just not relevant. I certainly get that it matters to you but for me, that background is a minor footnote. I'm really not trying to insult you or belittle something you treasure. It goes back to what you said about our appreciation being shaped by so many different "life-experience" variables. In this case, I'm guessing we share very little around that piece. Playing that Eldar album again as I write. It's just amazing to me. There are sections where it sounds like four hands playing not two! My appreciation of him is definitely not "unique" (though my reasons might be. I don't know). I have read that he's something of a pop culture "darling" (appearing on various late night TV shows). That, to me, is probably more damning than anything you or Frogman have said. I'll try to forget I read that and just focus on his wonderful playing. Anyone who can take "Nature Boy" or "Fly Me to the Moon" and make them interesting to me is doing something remarkable in my O-pinion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db7n1kNkFk8&ab_channel=EldarDjangirov-Topic |
Ghosthouse, "Moanin" is what it is, and that will never change, although there are many ways to reach the end result of what the tune is about, or just play it any way the artist wants to, but the original intention of the tune will never change. Maybe if the name was changed to "Moanin" modified it would be acceptable. If you like the music, that's fine, but it doesn't change anything in regard to the "original" tune and intended meaning by Bobby Timmons. In regard to the blind guys, there was only one elephant, yet each came to his own conclusion; such is the way of three different sighted individuals looking at anything, or listening to jazz. While most of jazz is abstract, Moanin is most specific. Enjoy the music. |
Ghosthouse, I don't know anything about ballet, but from what I can gather "Swan Lake" doesn't have a lot of latitude for variation, and there are certain elements that constitute a perfect "Swan Lake". Although there are no written rules for jazz standards, there are unwritten rules that the vast majority of jazz artists adhere to. At the same time it's possible to like a tune that has broken all the rules. If you know something about ballet, and "Swan Lake" specifically, how would you compare that to "the jazz standards"? Enjoy the music. |
**** Although there are no written rules for jazz standards, there are unwritten rules that the vast majority of jazz artists adhere to. **** O-10, could you please explain what some of those "unwritten rules" are? And how they relate to the "Moanin'" in question? Thanks. **** Frogman, why don't you just write my posts for me? Why is it that no one misinterprets every word I write like you? **** Likewise, O-10, please explain what exactly it is that I have misinterpreted? I don't believe I have, but would like to know what you meant that I am not understanding. Thanks. Btw, I take PayPal......just kidding, O-10.....can't have too much charm ☺️ |
Frogman, you have mentioned the unwritten rules many times, but now you don't know them; sorry, I can't help you. I posted this at 2:36 PM today in order to change the subject, but nobody noticed it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVB18xbRMI4&list=PL0z5a235GY1awuZeBQBO6ZWQfg95Gkg5N Apparently we would rather go around the Christmas tree than enjoy it. |
Ghosthouse, I certainly did not mean to offend with my comments about Eldar’s playing. As always, I commend you for your inquisitiveness and open-mindedness about this music and I believe that, at the core, our musical sensibilities are similar and I suspect that you have a fairly good idea of where I am coming from when it comes to judging music. I would like to offer some further thoughts as to why Eldar’s playing doesn’t do it for me; not to sway your opinions in any way, but to clarify my previous comments. You mention Eldar’s pop culture darling status as a negative for you. One negative for me and one which goes to the feeling of lack of substance is the fade-outs at the end of some of those clips. FADEOUTS?! Really? In jazz tunes? For me, this goes hand in hand with that pop culture sensibility. Fade outs are a common technique in pop music; very rare or inexistent in jazz. Why fade out? Can he not end the tune in a musically logical way? It cheapens the performance, imo. On a deeper level, his time feel is rushed; another deal breaker for me. No matter how fast the tempo, for me, a jazz performance has to have a feeling of control and relaxation; I don’t hear that in his playing. His improvisations don’t have, for me, the requisite sense that they have shape and direction: development of a musical idea within the framework established by the tune and its harmony. My feelings about his playing have nothing to do with any feeling that he doesn’t adhere to some sort of unwritten rule or deviation from a traditional way of playing the tune "Moanin’". In fact, part of the problem for me is that he’s not doing anything really new. There’s nothing new about his harmonic vocabulary. He does have his own unique rhythmic flavor and phrasingand and perhaps that is what resonates with you as well as the very impressive technique that I recognize also. I don’t like that unique rhythmic flavor and makes me uncomfortable with its sense of urgency. A personal call. Regards. |
The closer it gets to Christmas, the more I get into the spirit. It's the music that makes this holiday more than any other. For me, the artist that combines "jazz" and Christmas better than any other is "Vince Guaraldi". These days there is a lot of new Christmas music; music to suit any genre of music you prefer, mine is still the "Classic" songs, along with the original vocalists. Why don't you share with us, your favorite Christmas tunes. Enjoy the music. |