O-10; you may find this interesting. Highly recommended. It is downloadable.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3519832?seq=1
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3519832?seq=1
Jazz for aficionados
Jazz for aficionados
I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Enjoy the music.
I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Enjoy the music.
31,743 responses Add your response
Frogman, there are enough different kind of rhythms from Africa to fill a library. As a matter of "fact", there was a library in Haiti in which someone cataloged the different drum beats and rhythms from various parts of Africa. This was presented once. Because you can not distinguish or hear the different rhythms, they do not exist to you, I can hear and distinguish the different beats and rhythms, but first you give me an example of that Portuguese music you are speaking of? |
Frogman, a drum is a drum, but there is no comparison as to what one man can do with a drum as opposed to another. There is no comparison to what Brazilians do with the "Berimbau" and what you presented. Why don’t you give me a presentation of the Portuguese music so I’ll know exactly what you’re talking about? |
Speaking of Brazil and of the great Shirley Horn. Sings the songs of Antonio Carlos Jobim: https://youtu.be/JdAFQ-RcDiE https://youtu.be/xVNp7ynWQ3w https://youtu.be/5FE9jPXrl8A |
O-10, with respect, I think you may be mixing up a couple of things re the origins of Brazilian music and its African component. **** Something had to be added to the Anacondas, Native Americans, plus the Portuguese music to make the music that is so common in Brazil today. Could it have come in on those slave ships I see on the horizon? Could it have sounded like this. **** That is all true.....except the last sentence. All those influences that you mention including the rhythmic component melded into what we recognize as Brazilian music. However, it is only the rhythmic component that has its origins in Africa. The melodic and harmonic components (and language) are very much Portuguese and never existed in Africa. So, no, one doesn’t find music that sounds like that in Africa for the simple reason that it never did....except the rhythmic component (in part). That rhythm, by itself, is a common African rhythm still found in African music and, by extension, in Afro-Latin music. A similar process, with some different and some similar ingredients became Jazz. Re the instruments used: Instruments are always just a means to an end. The sound of the berimbau is a signature sound in Brazilian music and as you point out it had its origins in Africa; the “kalumbu”. It did not cease to exist in Africa when the slaves took it to Brazil and still exists and is used in African music. https://youtu.be/wk5c-VsKn1E https://youtu.be/u5uPqqZPrbM Bottom line: Brazilian music is wonderful as you say. The sophistication of European melodic and harmonic tradition and the rhythm tradition of Africa. |
How about a little "Afro Peruvian" soul; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keboPv6ZAvE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anBQisairgk |
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What a fantastic start to my day; first, my all time favorite album, "Somethin Else", is mentioned, followed by all that rhythm and dance from Africa, it couldn't get better than this. There was a drum library in Haiti which stored all the different rhythms from Africa. I know I read it, but now I can not find anything on it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanbou I've told this story a dozen times, but now I will tell it again. I was on a tour up a mountain in Haiti to see this place; https://www.google.com/search?q=fortress+in+haiti&rlz=1C1CHBD_enUS858US858&oq=fortress+in+ha... and we stopped to rest at a clearing where some kids were playing, about six of them I guess. (these kids had nothing to do with the tour) The oldest one who was about twelve, picked up a work shovel that had been left laying by the side of the road, and with a rock in each hand, began beating out these intricate voodoo rhythms on the steel blade of the shovel while the other kids danced. As they moved like their bodies had no bones, I was totally hypnotized, the dance and rhythms were so natural and spontaneous, this was something they were doing to simply amuse themselves. That was the most fascinating part of my vacation and it had nothing to do with anything. |
Somethin’ Else, led by Cannonball Adderley with a rare appearance of Miles Davis as payback for Adderley’s turn on Kind of Blue. Autumn Leaves, the first track, is alone worth the price of admission but there is so much more. Yes, and the rhythm section is Hank Jones, Philly Joe Jones and Art Blakey.@phildbasket One of Cannonball's greatest albums out of many great albums. And I agree his rendition of Autumn Leaves is outstanding. Miles plays sublime solo's on it. |
Somethin’ Else, led by Cannonball Adderley with a rare appearance of Miles Davis as payback for Adderley’s turn on Kind of Blue. Autumn Leaves, the first track, is alone worth the price of admission but there is so much more. Yes, and the rhythm section is Hank Jones, Philly Joe Jones and Art Blakey. |
@orpheus10 <<It stands to reason that some of those rhythms and dances no longer exist on the continent of Africa, but only exist in this hemisphere because the entire village was transported over here on a slave ship>> This is more reasonable than your previous blanket statement that raised so many hackles: "the musical soul of Sub Sahara Africa sailed away on a slave ship." That musical soul is still there - it is featured weekly on WPFW in DC. You're imagining that village-based musical cultures were wiped out and that nothing was left of West African music. But that "musical soul" was deeply ingrained across that entire swath of the continent. Sure, individual villages were decimated, but the centuries-old musical culture survived. |
Some of the things I've written might seem controversial, but in my mind they're not even the least bit controversial. Before the Portuguese went to Brazil, there was just the native inhabitants and Anacondas there making music; that means any music coming from Brazil was made by the Native South Americans, and Anacondas. After the Portuguese it's possible to have included their music with the Anacondas, and the native inhabitants. I don't think that music at all resembled present day Brazilian music. Something had to be added to the Anacondas, Native Americans, plus the Portuguese music to make the music that is so common in Brazil today. Could it have come in on those slave ships I see on the horizon? Could it have sounded like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KznlNRyjUg&t=44s The interesting thing about this music is that although it sounds African, it's not so common on that continent. I "theorized" that some music left the continent of Africa permanently. First of all, before slavery, Africa existed in "villages", not cities; villages were much smaller. Africans identified themselves by tribe and village. Nigeria was one of the few places with big cities and armies, Nigeria also did most of the slave capturing. Slaves were imprisoned in a factory while awaiting shipment. Current estimates are that about 12 million to 12.8 million Africans were shipped across the Atlantic over a span of 400 years. That's a lot of slaves and a lot of "villages". Each village had it's on peculiar rhythms and dances. It stands to reason that some of those rhythms and dances no longer exist on the continent of Africa, but only exist in this hemisphere because the entire village was transported over here on a slave ship. My ears have detected rhythms that are common in Brazilian music which are African in nature, but are uncommon on the continent of Africa. If those rhythms came from Africa, but are no longer heard on that continent, what other explanation could there be? We can appreciate the music, but some find it inappropriate to examine the people who made the music; is that so? Makes no sense to me. |
Schubert, I liked this music from the very beginning, it started out mysterious and dramatic, although I have a hard time relating it to Brazil. Apparently their perception of Brazil and my perception of Brazil are entirely different. But that's true of every country; the people on Fifth Avenue have an entirely different perception of this country than I do. While the music was of a different 'genre" than most of the music in my collection, I liked it still. |
O-10, Brazil's greatest composer wrote this along your African line of thought . https://youtu.be/ofD8KozSILs?t=5 |
To my ears, the most beautiful music comes from Brazil. This decision was made ages ago, it was made when I didn't even know where the music I had heard came from, or even the name of the tune playing, I simply heard some music on the car radio, and I liked it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVkDfnGobmI |
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Originally from Africa where it receives different names, the berimbau was eventually incorporated into the practice of the Afro-Brazilian martial art capoeira, the berimbau leads the capoeiristas movement in the roda—the faster the berimbau is playing the faster the capoeirista moves in the game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uuSaOZg8hI The berimbau originated in an early nineteenth-century Brazilian slave culture. How often do you hear this instrument used in the music from the continent which it originated? Who knows how many things that left that continent for good on those slave ships. Reality is what it is, not what it ain't. History can be written any way those who chose to write it wish, but reality can not be altered. “The moving finger writes; and, having writ, moves on: nor all thy piety nor wit shall lure it back to cancel half a line, nor all thy tears wash out a word of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl4bZnmtCcs |
Never quite Noticed how good the USAF jazz band really is ! https://youtu.be/QXSQtP4mxPs?t=2 https://youtu.be/X-KjBPmwxWU?t=4 If you know what those stripes mean these guys make more money than average jazzman with medical care and housing for them and family and a good pension for life . |
@frogman Your Cliff Notes version of that study is a great explanation for the difference between "thick" and "husky." The player's initial attack on blowing each note does seem to be the difference between a raspy "edge" and a smooth, rich "thick" tone. Can "husky" be extended beyond the initial attack and maintained through the entire note? I doubt it, but I need to listen more to focus on that. Seems we always learn that we have much more to learn. |
pjw, What your enemy does is on him, what you do is on you. Killing innocent women and children is a crime of the highest order with no excuse . . I had an uncle who flew the bomber runs in the last 6 months over Germany . In almost every flight 2-3 crews would drop their bomb load in the ocean knowing there was no military targets left .He said as long as you stayed in your place and fought German planes nobody said anything. Yellowjackets have decided to play with the Germans on their new CD. https://youtu.be/vfZttpqsy68?t=3 If anyone wants to know what WDR means it's West German Radio Big Band . |
pjw, not a casualty of war , a planed war crime .schubert I understand what you are saying but you already know that Nazi Germany was the undisputed world leader when it came to war crimes (with Imperial Japan second). Besides the Holocaust the Germans bombed many more cities with innocent civilians in Poland, Holland, Belgium, France and England. Even as Nazi Germany knew the Thousand Year Reich was finished (it lasted 12 years) they were shooting many of their newly developed "wonder weapons", The V - 2 rockets (the worlds first long range guided ballistic missile) at London as revenge for the Anglo American Allies bombing of German cities. I’m not saying any of it is right. Its why there should never be another World War. |
Short on time so apology for the short response....for now (Alex). Re players’ tones and descriptions of them, something to keep in mind that may help. It is impossible to separate tone and its description from how the player initiates the note (the attack) of the note and the inflections of the tone that the player uses. A fascinating study was done of players’ tones which demonstrated that if several players with very different tones are recorded playing one note and sustaining it, if the the initial attack and end of the sustained note are edited out the different players’ tones become almost indistinguishable from each other. Eddie Lockjaw plays with an extremely inflected tone. |
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"The spirit of the drum is something that you feel but cannot put your hands on," Babatunde Olatunji, had the spirit of his Nigerian ancestors; that says it all; "Drums of Passion " is my favorite. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00TVRNWAI/ref=ntt_mus_ep_dpi_8 |
O10 That Shango "Drums of Passion" is an outstanding example of a modern day African drum and chant songs recorded in 1960 100 years after the end of the centuries of the cross Atlantic slavery migration. I am going to try and find a copy on CD. "Shango (Chant to the God of Thunder)" is a track from Drums of Passion, an album released by Nigerian percussionist Babatunde Olatunji in 1960. "Shango" is the title of a Hugh Masakele track on his 2016 album No Borders. The song "Que Viva Chango" by Celina y Reutilio refers both to Chango and to Santa Barbara. |
alec re Johnny Griffin I have a large selection of his albums including, of course, his "shootouts" with Eddie "Lockjaw" Davis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omR-3SCfjHQ You can definitely and clearly hear "Lockjaws" husky tone as he takes the first solo and then the sweeter smoother tone of Griffin who takes the second solo. BTW I do not have the Griffin album you posted. I will search it out. |
alec That
Tord Gustavsen with 'Blue Church Choir“ was awesome. And the German city of Dresden, where they performed that moving composition, could not have been a better suited place for it. Dresden, a city with no strategic targets (armament factories ect.) was bombed by the Anglo American Allies in WWII killing approximately 25,000 civilians including women and children. Casualties of war. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwkMo1_rWM0 |
For me, "gruff" crosses over into attitude and connotes a bit of unfriendliness or "pissed-offedness" (as in "he was gruff with me"), so I'm hesitant to use it unless I believe the player is intentionally expressing that (which they sometimes do). Thick and husky apply to sound. Gruff brings in mood. But that's just me.Keegiam in the Sonny Rollins interview I posted on the last page Sonny, while describing Ben Webster's tone as gruff, say's Ben did not play like that all the time. He also said Ben had a "macho attitude" or "tough guy" persona. So that does match what you are expressing that "gruff" crosses over into the attitude realm. BTW Ben Webster was nick named "The Brute" for good reason. Ben Webster's "sweeter side" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3ipWLgg0nc And here is "The Hawk" playing "Body and Soul" which, IMHO is one of the better instrumental versions of that jazz standard ever recorded. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9okWUIpPaM And here is the great Frank Sinatra introducing the great Ella Fitzgerald who performs a terrific vocal version of "Body and Soul" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YyX5R6ohBE |
Great Johnny Mercer song for this day and Yes , Rosemary Clooney was a very good singer ! https://youtu.be/0W5VN6zk0Ow?t=3 |
The most original of all the divas ! https://youtu.be/norUV0lcvXQ?t=4 Everything is a solo in wisdom . https://youtu.be/RUjuav-olPY?t=13 |
Paul, found this performance of Tord Gustavsen with 'Blue Church Choir“ That would be very nice to hear alive... https://youtu.be/VslcUtNAexg |
My english does not permits me using some of aforementioned attributes so I can just post two of Johnny Griffin's albums and read your description of his tone... Do nothing till you hear from me https://youtu.be/MEE21GrPZAg The Kerry dancers https://youtu.be/frSS6Q3b13Y |
pjw, yes, i recall that discussion in this thread just recently. Each of those three descriptions has a different connotation for me: Thick: rich, warm, beefy Husky: thick with some raspiness added (kudos to frogman)Gruff: thick or husky with harshness/attitude added For me, "gruff" crosses over into attitude and connotes a bit of unfriendliness or "pissed-offedness" (as in "he was gruff with me"), so I'm hesitant to use it unless I believe the player is intentionally expressing that (which they sometimes do). Thick and husky apply to sound. Gruff brings in mood. But that's just me. What we each think of when we hear these terms is going to differ. That's one of the cool things about humans trying to describe the characteristics of musical sounds using words. YouTube certainly helps us better understand each others' vocabulary. Plus I can listen to all these tracks while writing posts! |
Played Kenny Burrell with Coleman Hawkins this AM ("Bluesy Burrell" - 1962). I'm thinking Hawkins sounds "frequently husky" on these - or maybe "sometimes husky."keegiam Sonny Rollins describes it as "gruff", frogman "husky" and James Carter "thick" Ben Webster from the album "The Soul of Ben Webster" with Mundell Lowe on guitar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylLT0Tc8GUQ |
Hello all. Trying to catch up here been busy. A lot of great new posts. acman thanks for the Espen Eriksen Trio and Tingvall Trio as well. alec I agree that the Tord Gustavsen trio and the Espen E trio have a similar sound. very soothing and relaxing "mood jazz" I have been listening to both trio's through my headphone gear at low volume and I almost fell asleep. I found this live Tord Gustavsen trio: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHg5U2oHiuU I snapped out of my Tord Gustavsen/Espen E trance and played acman's Tingvall Trio selections and became wide awake. I found this Tingval Trio playing live with commentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxogszH1BuI |
Played Kenny Burrell with Coleman Hawkins this AM ("Bluesy Burrell" - 1962). I'm thinking Hawkins sounds "frequently husky" on these - or maybe "sometimes husky." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz-5RfdViWE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igKYXar3KuM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B7VcUuR8J8 |
Tingvall's playing reminds me of McCoy Tyner (RIP). That's a good thing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKib8EXXbD4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73VczRfu9Kg |
Acman, nice. The Espen E. trio sounds similar to Tord Gustavsen (in broad sense), another norwegian player. At first went to check do they share the same label, thought that perhaps its the way of production that makes them souund alike, but its different. Maybe it has something to do with their musical upbringing? Frogman, do you care to give some insider comment? |