Maineiac
I'm thinking of having Symposium build a special Ultra shelf that will replace the acrylic plinth my CDT. It will utilize GPA Apex footers, sit on an F-1 carbon shelf and Monaco stand w/Apex feet. I'm trying to make the differing parts work as one.
P.S. I've never seen a piece of furniture finished in "Tobacco Sunburst". That's seen mainly on Guitars. |
Has anybody heard the machina dynamica ultra tweeters, and if so any comments. |
The performance of isolation devices is ultimately tied to the Laws of Thermodynamics; generally the First and Second Law. The answer to your question is a qualified, yes; a maple platform and pins could be better than your current configuration.
Here are some things to consider. The First Law of Thermodynamics states that energy in a System cannot be created or destroyed, but it can be converted from one form to another. This is really important.
Basically, this is a complicated way of saying that your listening room is an energy System when you turn your components on and the volume up. Electricity is the primary energy fueling your system.
Your speakers convert electrical energy into mechanical energy. The motion of your speaker diaphragms creates particle disturbances in the air. These airborne disturbances propagate outward from your speakers and you hear beautiful music. These propagating disturbances are molecular and are transferred into everything in your listening room including your components and the isolation device. This is the energy that needs to be eliminated. This is largely defined within the Second Law of Thermodynamics which states that energy generally diffuses outward from a point of focus. There are other implications of the Second Law.
Mechanical energy degrades the performance of the components and the isolation system and this is one of the reasons some isolation devices fail to meet your expectations. There are other reasons, but in general, exposed surfaces in the System become part of the System.
Putting the First and Second Law together, a really good isolation device is an energy conversion system. It converts deleterious mechanical energy into an innocuous form of energy, in this case low grade heat, before it can diffuse into your components and degrade their performance. The rate of conversion needs to be really high; the higher the better. It needs to quickly convert mechanical energy to heat energy across the audible spectrum and its extremes. It needs to be so good that energy striking a component drains downward into the device preventing your components from reaching equilibrium with the energy permeating the air.
A maple platform will be exposed to the same mechanical disturbances degrading your components. It will be in the System, as will the pins. It will come up to equilibrium with the mechanical disturbances permeating the air and it will be excited by vibration coming up from the floor at a host of frequencies. At some frequencies it will resonate; it will amplify mechanical energy.
A block of maple is not a high grade energy conversion system, but thats ok. The optimal choice is a maple platform with the grain oriented in the horizontal plane.
Hope that helps,
J
Critical Mass Systems |
Rcrump, interesting that you report this. In one sense you are right. In my system the Lindemann sounded so outstanding that Fred bought one. He was disappointed when he got it. Having heard it there, I strongly suggested that he try the Mana. It worked.
I have found the Neuance certainly to not be a cureall, but on Mana stands it has beaten all comers in my system with the exception of the Acapella Fondato Silenzio at many times the price. |
Brian--we see eye to eye! The Nimbus is irreplacable. |
Norm, I had dinner last night with Fred Crowder and he allows that you two never did any A-Bs of the Mana vs the Machina Dynamica at his place and went on to say that the Machina Dynamica worked wonderfully under his transport, but did not work under the Lindemann, probably on account that it weighed three times as much as his 12lb transport, a G&D Transforms modified Pioneer. Regarding the Neuance shelves they certainly are not a panacea, but worked well under the Lindemann. |
I obviously did not know Geoff made the unit, and as he suggests, it may be the particular player that my experience is with. |
Norm, instead of thanking me I suggest you might apologize to Geoff Kait for the unfounded remark about his product. |
Hey Y'all,
Audiopoints!!! I have them or Sistrum stands under everything in my system, and they are the best I've tried. Then again, I've only tried a couple of things but the Audiopoints have stopped me from needing to look any further........John |
Tbg - If the Lindemann's special "damping feet" were used in your comparison, I can see where the performance of Nimbus might possibly have suffered, as Nimbus requires very high stiffness/hardness type feet for best results. There a quite a few other things regarding set up for best results, many not too obvious. (Annoying, I know.) |
I just noticed, "so sure of yourself!" Thanks, I wish it were true. The greatest fear is moving one step forward and two backward. |
Ugh, the once instance I recall was Fred Crowder's use under the Lindemann. The Mana copy lent much greater impact. |
Norm (Tbg), you seem so sure of yourself yet you don't recall what you listened to. Perhaps this will refresh your memory: Ryan C brought his Nimbus which by all accounts had some leaks and thus wasn't performing up to par. So no, it couldn't have been set up correctly. |
I am sure that they were set up correctly but unsure which it was. It was the first table they came out with. Since the sound went along with what I have always heard from platter supports, I was not surprised, but I remembered the different sound I had heard at CES. |
tbg - Two Questions: which MD stand are you referring to? How can you be so sure it was set up correctly? |
GK, I too have heard dynamics from the Machina Dynamica, but in two systems I have heard the Mana and Neuance combo versus it and both it sound dull and lacking in dynamics. In both cases the M D was properly set up. |
tgb, undoubtedly something is amiss as my stands are nothing if not dynamic, regards GK |
Mine's are four rolled up socks from Costco, honestly and it works just fine. |
Brian, boy not in my system. Death to dynamics. |
The products from Machina Dynamica (machinadynamica.com) such as the Promethean and Nimbus work very well.
Brian |
Maineiac,
If I remember correctly, you are now using an Audio Aero Prima CD player, no? If so, try out a few inexpensive tweaks first, or ones that you can easily re-sell. I have my Prima sitting on a block of 3" maple from www.timbernation.com (about $60, unprimed), but every under-foot isolation tweak I've tried thus far on my Prima has resulted in thuddy bass and a diminished sustain in the sound.
Good luck, and please report what you find out.
Howard |
maieiac,, i'll second "upstateaudio' on the cerraballs, very effective everywhere ,but especially on digital.... for the money ,they are unbeatable! |
May I suggest a quick and cheap solution? Diyumas or RollerPlates... easy to build and cost effective. For the Diyumas you will need just 3 ( http://store1.yimg.com/I/myknobs_1823_85185837 ) concave door knobs from this page http://www.myknobs.com/conbrigfin.html. They are found on Home Depot ( the ones without the center dimple). You also need 3 copper end cops ( or caps ), sand to fill the caps/cops , Krazy Glue and 3 steal bearings about 1/2" to 3/4" diameter. If you decided for the Roller Plates, just have two pieces of wood around 16" x 14" x 3/4" . Get 6 convave knobs and mirror image three on each board. After having the knobs attached, put 3 bearing balls in between and you are done.
It is easy, affordable, effective and fun to work with.
If you need help, just send me an e-mail. I will be glad to assist you. BTW, it cost less than the $10 for the Diyumas and about $15.00 to $20.00 for the RP's.
Happy Holidays,
Jose. |
Finite Elemente ceraballs directly under my CD Player made an obvious difference to me (~120). Right now I have them under my turntable with a 2" maple platform. I am getting another set eventually under my CDP. |
I think you should buy a Neuance shelf and support it on points on the corners. While I like Aurio 1.0 with tungsten carbide balls in many circumstances, on Neuance shelves they do nothing. Neither do RollerBalls with Grade 3 balls or anything else that I have tried. The Acapella bases are better than the Neuance but are too expensive. |
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I agree that Aurios would be a great help in improving the sound of your CDP.
Far better than Aurios, get a set of Symposium Roller Blocks with Grade 3 Tungsten Carbide Balls (or start with grade 25 TC balls). You can find them used on Audiogon for around $ 275.00 - $ 300.00.
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You can use the Roller Blocks in conjunction with whatever platform you choose and the sonic improvement is terrific.
. |
I've found the Gingko Mini clouds very effective under my cd player. The trick is to load the top of your player so the 3 blue balls support close to the 30 lbs they can handle....but for a very cheap tweak you can put superballs in vibrapods under the player. Place in a triangle under your player and place a sandbag on top of your player. Simple soup spoons held in place with modeling clay can hold marbles. This gives a cheap and dirty idea what 'better floaters like aurios' can do for your system....take your time, there is a lot at AA about this stuff. Have fun and Seasons' Best. |
If I had a budget of $200.00 to isolate my CDP in an all wooden cabinet I would get a set of Aurios, although I don't know how they would fare once the rack was changed.
Instead of going into details, may I suggest a search of "Isolation Devices Binge" under the Tweaks/DIY forum at AA. Be prepared for some in depth reading & research. |
