Hi, I have Odyssey Stratos Power amp. at present, it is on the rack. In future, it plan to have Mono blocks and may put them on the floor. Which isolation platforms is appropriate? Not looking for extotic > $ 150 ones ! Thank you.
My apologies to those who are content not (rpt not) to know how things work and who have distain for physics beyond the high school level and who have never heard of Einstein, Heisenberg, Thorne, Schrodinger, Hawking, Wheeler, Feynman, Marconi, Bohm, Bohr, Fermi, Teller, Oppenheimer and who admire audio tweak reviewers who conclude their review with the disclaimer, "I have no idea how this thing works but works it does."
I don’t think discussions concerned with our understanding of physics is really going to help those of us concerned with effective tweaks on a purely practical level. Yes all that knowledge matters, but it is not really that helpful here. Questions like "do you want the point of a pointed footer to feed into something that easily transmits the vibrations away from the interface" or do you "want massive footers that absorb the vibration and dampen it that way" may matter more to the curious in this thread, rather than ones grasp of special relativity matters and Einstein’s notion of gravity bending space, in the time energy plane etc.
Oh, one more thing. Perhaps nothing is more well understood than gravity. At least by those who wrote the book and those who read the book, one hopes anyway. The book I'm referring to is Gravitation, published 44 years ago.
Gravitation is a physics book on Einstein's theory of gravity, written by Charles W. Misner, Kip S. Thorne, and John Archibald Wheeler and originally published by W. H. Freeman and Company in 1973. Owing to its prominence, it is frequently abbreviated MTW after its authors' initials. The book, which has more than 1200 pages, resembles a large telephone book in size and shape. The cover illustration, drawn by Kenneth Gwin, is a line drawing of an apple with cuts in the skin to show geodesics. It contains 10 parts and 44 chapters, each beginning with a quotation. The bibliography has a long list of original sources and other notable books in the field. The level of the book is advanced, with the intended audience at the graduate-level and above.
By the way, my spring based isolation systems like all spring based isolation systems are in fact anti gravity devices. If you go and measure the weight of the object on the top plate of a spring based system you'll find it weighs quite a bit less than it would just sitting on the table or whatever.
jollygreenaudiophile Well Jeff since it sounds like you were absent at class for quite some time while I was learning. And since your comments are beginning to make you look silly. And of course because you "obviously" know, please explain what gravity is....
Especially since we do not even have a completed theory "of" gravity let alone a complete model..
>>>>You don’t, anyway. I’d be careful about speaking of everyone else if I were you.
As the best known of the four fundamental forces "gravity" seems to be thought of as basic science and easily explainable by most people. It is not. Einstein’s calculations seemed to lead to gravity being the "warping of space time", but we don’t know what it is or the why of it.
>>>>>Again, just because you don’t know or because you can’t explain it it’s best not (rpt not) to assume no one else does or can. Hint - gravity is the weakest force.
ALL work done with gravity calculations is like working with "Ohm’s Law", which of course is no ’law", at all, is it Jeff? Or did you solve that all by your lonesome as well?
>>>>Whatever.
I don’t come here to argue. I come here to learn.
>>>>>>>Why start now? I have come here to bury Ceasar not to praise him.
Besides, without gravities effects my turntable wouldn’t even exist! Would it? But maybe if I could modulate the gravitational pull at the center point of the music groove I could......................
>>>>>Whatever. Psssst, the word you’re looking for is "gravity’s."
Well Jeff since it sounds like you were absent at class for quite some time while I was learning. And since your comments are beginning to make you look silly. And of course because you "obviously" know, please explain what gravity is.... Especially since we do not even have a completed theory "of" gravity let alone a complete model.. As the best known of the four fundamental forces "gravity" seems to be thought of as basic science and easily explainable by most people. It is not. Einstein's calculations seemed to lead to gravity being the "warping of space time", but we don't know what it is or the why of it. ALL work done with gravity calculations is like working with "Ohm's Law", which of course is no 'law", at all, is it Jeff? Or did you solve that all by your lonesome as well? I don't come here to argue. I come here to learn. Besides, without gravities effects my turntable wouldn't even exist! Would it? But maybe if I could modulate the gravitational pull at the center point of the music groove I could......................
Poor, Robert. A lost little sheep. That's what happens when you follow the wrong sheep. In your case, Mr. Michael Green. Like peas and carrots. It's like he's right here. 😀
We can only imagine what the 'Big Boys' are planning next for audio reproduction? And really hope the next big thing fits inside a sound room. ⌣
Geoffery, you are boring us to death with the same old repetitive one liners. They remind me of a deep scratch in a record…itch …itch …itch …itch … It’s really time for some new material, please?
It's pretty obvious you must've spent waaay too much time at NASA. Oh, well, have you given any consideration to like a refresher course on physics or anything?
Education cn be defined as what's left after you subtract what you forgot from school. ~ Old audiophile expression
So your saying that the wave's in water are "not", made up of particles? "A gravity wave is simply a manifestation of gravity."????? Which of course means that YOU Jeff, MUST have solved it! Define and expound please! Seriously, Where did ya get that from? That may well be someone's "theory" but based on what? At this time, that's all that it is, A "theory". Hee hee hee. Yer killin me over here Jeff.....Ha ha ha ha
jollygreenaudiophile2 Uh huh, You mean the "Big boy's", whom still cannot decide whether gravity is actually a wave or particle "effect",? Let alone prove it? And there's a guy in the corner shouting, "It's the wave effect (on) particles!", Those guys?
Huh?! Gravity is neither a wave or particle. A gravity wave is simply a manifestation of gravity. I trust you don't think waves in water are particles.
Uh huh, You mean the "Big boy's", whom still cannot decide whether gravity is actually a wave or particle "effect",? Let alone prove it? And there's a guy in the corner shouting, "It's the wave effect (on) particles!", Those guys? Please don't put all your eggs in one basket mister... Yeah, I DID work for NASA too. That and 50 cents will get me a cheap cup of coffee.
If using sequenced high mass layers was effective I’m pretty sure the LIGO project to detect gravity waves would have used them. What they did use, in fact, was sequenced mass on spring layers. The advantage to bluestone and granite for DIY audiophiles is low cost and effectiveness, due to high mass and stiffness. That’s why the big boys like Newport and other isolation platform manufacturers use large granite slabs for the top plate of their larger isolation platforms. Very low frequency seismic type vibrations, the most harmful ones, the ones that excite 😛 turntable natural frequencies circa 10 Hz to 15 Hz cannot (rpt cannot) be addressed without mechanical low pass filters of some sort. Performance of mass on spring systems is all about high mass and low spring rate. It’s rocket science.
Hee hee, I never said it "was", rocket science. Yet I don't see it often enough. But you can also use the high mass layers as differentially sequenced frequency attenuators by utilizing different strata's with their own specific characteristics. Unless you just "Really, really", like rocks, granite ect... Me? I like shiny things.
Decoupling and coupling is not rocket science. The coupling is for draining off medium and high frequency induced or residual vibration from the component/system. The decoupling is for attenuating very low frequency seismic type vibration transmitted from the floor to the component. Since no single mass on spring layer is a perfect isolator (i.e., low pass filter) you can cheat a little by building two mass-on-spring layers, separated in resonant frequency Fr so they won’t interfere with each other. This usually means using high mass in the construction of the dual layer stack - e.g., slabs of granite or bluestone.The high mass ensures a very low resonant frequency for the bottom layer. Then the top layer is a snap.
The coupling/decoupling sequence seems to be generally overlooked. Even "as" a sequence. Doesn't anyone else here measure? Or at least try it and listen!
Butcher block is OK if done right. A big factor is how the butcher block is mounted and how the component is mounted on the butcher block. Not to mention what the butcher block is mounted on.
But there really is no substitute for real (rpt real) isolation which means, of course, mass-on-spring devices. Mass per se is good in the sense of inertia (i.e., resistance to external forces) and for mass-on-spring devices for which mass per se lowers resonant frequency Fr of the iso device, thus improving isolation effectiveness. The thicker the butcher block the better the system resist bending forces since it's stiffer. That would explain the populaity of 3-inch thick butcher blocks. Finally, the best results will be obtained by careful decoupling and coupling techniques, since both are necessary.
And I do find that the "butcher block type of isolation platform/plinth doesnt work very well. It seems that "Mass rules" when it comes to wood and vibrations/resonance ect.. The abrupt density changes don't help either when the waveforms are longer than the 1" piece glued to the 1.3" piece glued to the....
Ha ha hah h, ah, hmm. So, once I charge my 'crystals with the 7.34 htz. pulse generator "The guy in China whom made swears it works", I then manufacture a ground loop using a token ring topology, When the storm comes close I don the requisite aluminium foil headgear "retwisting the horns til tuned" and begin my Gregarian chant while contemplating the zen of the void per Myamoto Musashi. Then I finish the bottle of tequila, bark at the moon and when I wake up I cannot feel any of the vibrations whatsoever. But my head usually hurts for a bit. Or at least until I make bail. What do you do Tweak?
My new iso stand is somewhat similar only I use a bed of teeny tiny glass microspheres that are almost perfectly round. The "action" is much better with the glass microspheres, you betcha. I also use a large glass tile and springs and diamond hardness cones. Oh, my! I’d post a pic except it’s proprietary. This iso stand simulates the head of a woodpecker that can withstand shock and vibration that accompany decelerations around 1000 g whilst pecking at 20 pecks/second that would otherwise kill it. I call it the Woody the Woodpecker Stand.
I have a cheap alternative. It's for a hybrid isolation platform you can experiment with to see what works for you. you can take apart and redo with the parts until you get what your after. Start with two 18"x18" granite or slate tiles from your local big box hardware store and some duct tape. Space the tiles with wood blocks or whatever you have to the width you want. Then fill with sand/shot or a mixture Also try brass rods or slugs. Then tape the end closed. Add a layer of wood to the top or not, and just experiment. If you find what works and want a pretty one. Contact me! I would add pics of a couple of my designs but I don't know if that's possible or allowed.
So what do you guys use to isolate the mains, drives, airborne vibration,as well as internal self induced resonance from the device you are currently isolating? Tom
Mrjstark, I really don't understand why you think I need to justify the price to you or anyone. Remember that I initially stuck with the character of the initial post.
Filthy rich. Who am I to explain its meaning ? - heard it ones or twice in the movies, that is all. I can't even give it a ***** stars recommendation since I have no experience in that department. Now jokes aside......really. I am happy for you that you can have a luxury of trying those really, really expensive stuff and that is OK. Just tell me how do you justify its price, I mean really. I always try to find audio equipment and accessories that represent a good value and are equal or better then their counterparts from the top shelve. If I can make it, build it or tweak it my self why should I pay laughable amount of $$$$$ that some of those companies are asking. You know a lot of us will never have a chance to try or experience this stuff. Is that it ? I hope not. I have read some of your threads and answers and I am sure You know your stuff and know what you are talking about. You seem to be a very seasoned audiophile but this is one issue that I have a problem with. I am not trying to attack anybody here, it is not me but I just can't agree with You on this one. Don't take it personal, I respect You and your opinions. Mariusz Stark
I use Sistrum platforms under all of my electronics speakers and subs. Same highly reactive grounding technology I applied to acoustic instruments, some with an increase in output of 1.5 db. I am a dealer..Tom
Tbg. You are absolutely right. Acapella base, Neuance shelves and Halcyonics active isolation base should be in another tread, something with
" iso-base and shelves for filthy reach and crazy " or " I have 10G to spend on accessories - any ideas ? "
Please don't take it personal but prices of products you mentioned are ridicules at best. This makes me a little jealous of your financial resources and your job. Congratulations on doing very well.... for your self.
Mrjstark, I found Mana stands were superior, especially with initially Neuance shelves and better yet with Acapella bases. Now I have a Halcyonics active isolation base under my amp, but this is hardly on topic for this thread.
I'm sorry but it was an a feeble attempt to add levity to the discussion. Sorry but I don't drink or take any elicit drugs. I have my amps on Ikea butcher block resting on cheap VTI amp stands with cone feet . The rest of my stuff is on Isol Pads. Qutite honestly I think I hear accurately and don't hear vibratory resonance points.I do hear reflected sound wich would be easy to repair.
Beat this. Two butcher blocks from IKEA - $29.99 = $59.98 8 Isol Pads - total $50. $110 for two mono amp. stands. P.S Just finished my own stands made out salvage solid peace of Californian walnut. Cost $50. In my system, just added for you.
Now Now, If you had done asearch you would have seen my post on isolation. All these sound smearing distortion making,make blacks turn less black and just put a veil over youyr speakers. Hears the trick you build a box like strucure with rebar put woodaround the ouside and inside but use 3 long corks to span the rebar at the bottom rear. The youyget some cement premixed is easier but you can add colored dye, I'm sure McMaster Carr has some.Pick a subdued color. The pour the colored cement into the mold.Now just wait till it dries.While youve got the mixture all set up build a box for the cover at least 2-3 inchesthick the boxshould be 5-6 inches place the amps on burled cocobola in a Cypress flamed wood box with blacksand you import from Hawaii.Put the amp inside on the burled cocobola atop the black sand. Then add as many layersof iso damp as it takes from the and the walls to fill the chamber. Now here is the tricky part put the power cord through the hole the cork or corks left remember to attach the ICs from the pre and the speaker cables from the amp. Thus the three holes. Now get a small tackle and pully, fork lift etc or six strong friends to place the cement cover on top which . At this point you will once again beable to say nomore of those wretched vibrations to worry about.
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