2. amps-preamps
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Is there actually a difference?

Speakers sound different - that is very obvious. But I’ve never experienced a drastic change between amps. Disclaimer that I’ve never personally ABX tested any extremely high end gear.

With all these articles claiming every other budget amp is a "giant killer", I’ve been wondering if there has ever been blind tests done with amplifiers to see if human ears can consistently tell the difference. You can swear to yourself that they do sound different, but the mind is a powerful thing, and you can never be sure unless it’s a truly blind test.

One step further - even IF we actually can tell the difference and we can distinguish a certain amp 7/10 times under extreme scrutiny, is it really worth the thousands you are shelling out to get that nearly-imperceivable .01% increase in performance?

Not looking to stir up any heated debate. I’ve been in audio for several years now and have always thought about this.
asianatorizzle

Showing 5 responses by vtvmtodvm

vtvmtodvm
66 posts
 

Per Peter Aczel, of The Audio Critic:  “Longtime readers of The Audio Critic know the drill that comes at this point: I repeat, for the nth time, that all amplifiers having high input impedance, low output impedance, flat frequency response, low distortion, and low noise floor sound exactly the same when operated at matched levels and not clipped. (Those who are unable to stomach this simple truth, proved over and over again in double-blind listening tests, should stick with Stereophile.)”


vtvmtodvm
66 posts
 
@geoffkait —Well, I don't know the answer to your question, but, as (apocryphally) credited to Mark Twain…

“It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”

So I guess some people always need more proof.

vtvmtodvm
66 posts
 
@erik_squires—Hi, Erik, your comment was of special interest to me because I think that I comprehend the thrust of your point; i.e. that these three makers each represent distinct (power amp) design approaches that are competently executed but distinctly different.

Now, I know the Parasound approach (I use their Halo A23 myself), which is basically conventional class B operation. (Yes—it's slightly "hi-biased" at very low power—so-called "class A/B" mode—but that's not a truly significant distinction.)  And I'm familiar with the Pass design concept, wherein output stages are biased for true class A operation at powers up to ~ 12-18 Watts output (on many models). But I'm NOT able to gain any meaningful information about the Ayre stuff, and I find that really frustrating!

A Personal Note: I'm an old retired guy with lots of DIY hi-fi experience, including analog circuit design and building my own pre-amps, power amps, & linear regulated power supplies. I like to know the tech stuff, and I do a lot of my own testing. (With my own instruments.)

The Ayre website is the anthesis of Parasound's site. Ayre provides only the barest of product specifications with near zero tech info. And their owner's manual downloads are pure fluff. Sure—their chassis look great and their prices are exotic—but how does one comprehend what they're doing? How does one get to appreciate Ayre's designs and learn what's going on inside? I haven't even been able to find a helpful (meaning with tech detail) review on the Ayre stuff. What do you know, and how does one find out what Ayre is doing? Any suggestions?
vtvmtodvm
66 posts
 
@asianatorizzle—I really don't think that you can do better than the Parasound Halo A23 power amplifier at your price point. The circuit design is excellent, and the build quality is as good as it gets for (as I recall) just $995 (Audio Advisor). The A23's performance specifications are fully listed, quite complete, and consistent with top quality. And my own measurements show that the amplifier meets or exceeds those published specs. In addition, the A23 exhibits measured DC offset of less than 2mVdc max., which is w-a-y better than the published 50mVdc limit typical for many hi-bias quasi-class A designs. (Note that listening alone does not reveal any of these vital distinctions.)
vtvmtodvm
66 posts
 

Re. “…there can be an appreciable difference between high-end and mid-fi gear”…

Yes—but, by large margin, that “appreciable difference” is often just $$$$. And that’s not a very compelling distinction.

The assigned job of the power amplifier is to accurately amplify the signal, not to reshape it in some pre-contrived way that renders sound more euphonic. This latter function is best relegated to the loudspeaker system.

Any departure from accurate reproduction of the incoming signal represents amplifier error. And amplifier error represents unintended distortion of the incoming signal. It doesn’t matter if the distortion encompasses frequency response, or extraneous harmonics, or waveform shape, or added noise—it’s an inaccurate portrayal of the incoming signal. I personally subscribe to the school that says accuracy improves when any form of distortion is minimized, and many solid-state power amplifiers meet that criteria quite well today. Differences are often more a matter of power output capability, load impedance sensitivity, and reliability, and you need to get in deeper than mere listening to evaluate the value impact.


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