Is there a ROON sound?
I finally had to give in and open a ROON account. I bought the highly recommended 432 EVO Aeon server, but it only works with ROON (as an endpoint) or the Logitech Media Server. The latter seemed a bit awkward to get going, so I started a ROON account (so far for a year). The server offers a plethora of filter and up-sampling choices, let alone the unique ability to change the orchestral pitch to 432 Hz down from the now common 440Hz (the way Mozart or even Verdi heard their music before 440 became the common recording standard for sounding "crisper"). [I have tried this option several times but was underwhelmed. But that's just my personal first take on the subject]
Up to now, I listened to most of my music either through Apple Music as ALAC files or Quobuz as FLAC; I also have a Native DSD library and another with YouTube downloads (FLAC as well). The latter go directly from my MacBook Air (M1 chip) to my MSB Discrete DAC, or through an Audirvana rinse cycle.
My first impression listening to the 432EVO/ROON combination on "Brothers in Arms" was like listening with lightly compressed cotton plugs in my ears. That was with the manufacturer-recommended upsampling rate and filter-choice. I could hardly understand any of Mark Knopfler's (admittedly mumbling) musings! I immediately switched back to my Apple Music version and at least heard things like "through the fields of destruction - baptism of fire" and other text bites. The overall presentation was sharper and more acoustically demanding, but with admittedly less-wide soundstage. I then switched back to the server/ROON combo and disabled all filters and upsampling, going into bit-perfect mode. But even then, the overall presentation, while admittedly more bass heavy and spacious, the singer's words were still hardly intelligible. I actually think that "Brothers in Arms" is a really good example to test for a component ability to shine light on sung or spoken words; another favorite example is Boz Scaggs' "Thanks to You", where the clearest presentation in my system comes from the LP (which is called "Dig"), followed by Quobuz.
I went back to the 2022 review of the Aeon server in Absolute Sound by Andrew Quint, where he extolls the sonic virtues of the instrument (but, like myself, did not like the lower pitch option). I trust that he could not detect the same flaws as I did, albeit streaming from ROON as well.
I understand that ROON emerged from the previous SONOS company. A good friend of ours was one of the first SONOS adopters some 30 years ago, but I never liked it in a musicality sense, especially the gooey bass. To me it always sounded like Musak. So, I might be a bit prejudiced here, because what I am hearing now from ROON is as "pleasing" as the old SONOS; kinda lounge character, but not really stirring or attention-grabbing.
So, I would like to hear the unvarnished truth from this illustrious audience, what their experience with ROON is in terms of musicality and neutral/natural presentation, especially if they can offer some kind of A/B comparison from their own listening experience. As I said, I have zero previous experience with ROON, and might just be a bit biased here.
@reimarc You may want to look at your ROON Settings/Audio and select a different device. You should not need to use AirPlay for Roon in your system as indicated in your last post. "ROON via ApplePlay (FLAC)" I don't think Roon has a sound per se but Roon can sound different than other inputs on a particular endpoint. It will very much be device specific. |
The ROON sound sounds like sucking...cause it's a terrible company who's vaunted Nucleus + could not handle my library It took ROON 15 months to tell me that (due to possibly the worst customer service model that exists for a product) And I would have been fine with that ...until they refused to refund my $$$ for the Nucleus ...they blamed my library ...though I've never seen anything in their advertisements about it not being able to handle some libraries Thanks for listening ...still gets me jacked up 2 years later ..thank the Lord for Innuos Sense |
IMO, I don't think there is a "ROON" house sound. I'm in the camp that bits are bits Being a ROON user for several years, I did have the chance to switch hardware around (Macs, then dedicated streamer) and all resulted in a change in sound, However, i believe it is the hardware that is causing all this. True, that ROON has settings that allows one to tailor their musical preferences., but I believe this is Roon way to let's its users adjust one's personal preferences, and NOT a house sound. With that being said, IMO, it is the corresponding hardware synergy and components that creates what we hear. I think that the DAC played the most important role in the digital arena that streaming plays in. |
The important thing about bits is not that they are bits, it is that when they are mis-read, they can be corrected. Can be, not must be, or always are. The internet does provide a protocol, Transport Control Protocol or TCP, which guarantees that a file can be (eventually) delivered in perfect condition. But the internet also provides another protocol, User Datagram Protocol, which does not guarantee completeness, accuracy or delivery but does try to get the bits out in time. While Qobuz, for example, say they use TCP, they start playback before the stream has finished using their own proprietary protocol. How do they know which packets have errors, or have been dropped completely, and how do they ask for re-transmission? How often can they do this before the stream stops? Same questions for Roon. Next, USB. USB does not guarantee bit-perfect transmission WHEN USED FOR STREAMING. When set for data transfer, it does not guarantee timing. Ethernet - same story. Ethernet on its own does not guarantee packet delivery, nor accuracy, nor timing. Fortunately, it is usually fast enough for higher level protocols to make up these deficiencies, but what protocols do Qobuz, Roon etc use on top of Ethernet? Seems to me these protocols are kept very proprietary! I2S? Never designed for data transmission beyond two chips on a board, I2S has no error detection built in, let alone error correction. At least it has timing. Bear in mind that the bits streaming from a spinning CD need about a 2k buffer just to detect and correct errors. By design, 4,000 consecutive wrong bits can be corrected - an astonishing feat for 1982 technology. This is before the stream emerges as PCM. Of course, if the streamed bits can be captured to a computer file, that file can be accurately compared to any other file purporting to contain the same bits. If they match perfectly, then I accept that bits are bits in that instance. |
