I can't speak for the others but David99, I am not chasing analog sound by buying digital sources. If I am, then you are exactly correct, I will just keep listening to my analog setup. But I am seeking the best recreation of music at home and the enjoyment I get when I go listen to the Boston Symphony Orchestra. I think that is what music is all about. |
Sorry Albertporter I can't afford the stuff you buy. I only have a basis 2500 fitted with graham 1.5 and benz ruby 2. So maybe you are right its the system and not the lp itself that is the source of the surface noise. Maybe I will upgrade them when my 2 kids stop going to college. Any recommendation Albert what I should audition that will give me 100% guaranteed satisfaction? It will greatly appreciated. Then maybe that will help me stop from this continuous vicious cycle of seeking the holy grail of musicality. For now let us enjoy whatever medium gives us satisfaction at home because nothing out there regardless of price, analog or digital, comes close to the actual performances. I have listen to top of the line Basis debut on a Martin logan Statement and it stll comes short. I am not saying I am not happy with it but at the same time I am also gratified listening to digital on the same setup. Have a nice day gentlemen. Enjoy your music. Let me know when the chicken and egg issue gets resolve. |
David 99, I made it clear I was here to get insight from people who have heard it. I did not, until your most recent post, read where you HAD heard the thing. As for the other posts about this being a marketing ploy...an opinion. One I just don't happen to share. If the status quo were "good enough" we probably wouldn't be here on this site. I'm by no means a SONY fan (as a matter of fact I think their stuff is overpriced and of questionable quality) but I will give them credit for trying to lead and innovate here. Anyway, if you're happy with what you've got, that's what its all about! HAve a good one! |
Sorry,I missed one.Tryhoss? why do you assume I havent heard a SACD set up?? Well as a matter of fact I have a close friend that has the very same one this man is disappointed with.My opinion of the SCD-1 is it sounds like a mid priced CD player.My friend thinks its awesome but always wants to come to my house for some vinyl.He thinks my system sounds awesome also but spends more time in front of mine than his.He has never said mine sounds better but actions speak louder than words.Besides read the other posts.For the most part SACD is just another marketing ploy.And please dont ask me not to respond to questons on this site if I havent heard a product.You said your self you havent heard it,so why are YOU here?? |
I posted earlier on 7-05, that I hoped SACD would be wonderful, and I really meant it. I did not post comments revealing that I have in fact heard the format, although not in my own system. The CES in Vegas had at least two rooms with SACD, because I listened in both. One room was hosted by invitation with a joint venture between Phillips and Sony. They had, in addition to SACD, some master digital tapes in 2" format, and a lot of pro gear. I was not impressed, and neither was the reviewer from Absolute Sound that was listening room to room with me. This does not solve the question if SACD is good or not. I will not say that such a test is absolutely valid, as CES show conditions are poor. I will say that the set up Sony did is probably every bit as good as many high end audio dealers provide for their customers. From that standpoint, it is not off to a great start. I personally wish it would beat vinyl and that there were already a hundred thousand titles in print. However wishing and reality are two different things. The earlier posting about Betamax is scary, as that was a absolutely superior format to VHS, and Sony was the company behind Betamax too. If Sony does not resolve the issues of availability and cost of SACD software, this will wind up an expensive failure. The last project between Phillips and Sony, you may not remember. It was the DAC no, not digital audio converter, but digital audio cassette. It came to CES with a big bang, promised a library larger than CD and standard cassette, and everyone was pumped about it. They managed to sell a few, then it just went away. I was neither for or against it's success, I simply waited to see what was going to happen before I invested in it. I think SACD has a much better chance, as the format has much more appeal than digital cassette. Unfortunately, only time will tell. |
Garfish,I have a job too!!(darn) But I love music enough to find time to get all I can out of it and find it fun also.I have mentioned else where that anyone can go around the corner and buy a CD / SACD player.Go buy a CD put it in and push a button.VERY EASY AND CONVENIENT,but it takes talent and time to get the best music has to offer.the man who started this post said he is not happy with the latest digital format.He asked for suggestions.I said if you want analog sound just like every true audiophile then go with a true analog format.I gave my suggestion,OK? Hey Carl! Where the HELL ya been while I've been being beat up here?? I'm getting impatient on news of your new toy!!! |
Carl; Yeah I use a SF Line 2-- very neutral but with body. I like the additive effect of tubes. The high-end IS expensive. My overall strategy has been to get the best possible digital playback I can afford. (I think I'm there). The ML 360S DAC (especially) provided a really nice improvement in music quality/character. It's as if Diana Krall, Margo Timmins, and Natalie Cole are actually in my room. You've spoken so highly about the CD-50 that I really would lke to hear it, but as you can see, I'm pretty well committed to the system I have. Thanks for asking. Craig |
Ok, I was hoping to get some insight into this "new" technology from audio enthusiasts who have actually listened to the product. Instead I'm getting the same old analogue vs. digital argument. I have nothing against lps, in fact I have heard some great set-ups that far surpass my digital front-end. From a convenience standpoint, CD and its newer incarnations are the way to go - no scratches, no flipping, no handling with gloves - and CD's are smaller too. Kinda why laserdisc never really took off yet DVD has. Now all that aside, I guess there can be a stubborness not to accept anything "new", especially after you've spent a considerable amount of time and $$$ on you current set-up. But David99, please don't comment on that which you have not heard and be so closed minded that you won't give it a chance - it simply doesn't add value to the original thread. I get a vision of some parent from the 60's saying sarcasticaly how Rock-n-Roll isn't MUSIC just noise and that there hasn't been a REAL musician since Sinatra! So, go out an listen to it you might be surprised. I haven't hear it but would love to read some more comments from people who HAVE! |
I am sorry for Rfeneol@notes if he thinks surface noise is a problem for those of us that listen to vinyl. He must have experience with a low to mid fi quality source to make that comment. My Walker and IO combination is as quiet as my Sony 7700 and the players before it. |
That's good, Craig. Your CD front end might be better than mine. You have to use a linestage though, don't you? Seems like a lot of money just to listen to one of the formats. |
Hi Carl; Again we were posting at the same time. I appreciate your stepping in as "mediator". I certainly have nothing against vinyl, but I've chosen digital-- and as of now it's sounding pretty darn good (I just got an ML transport and DAC-- used of course). I surely do agree with you about SACD, and in fact I recently read in some hi-end mag. (don't remember where) that Sony considers the format a "flop". Cheers. Craig |
David; My friend works long and hard to make a living and quite frankly doesn't usually have the time to fool around with vinyl, but he can get some listening time in with CDs. Other than this comment, I now give up. You win. Have a nice day. Craig. |
Craig, it doesn't cost any more to have a great vinyl front end, versus a CD one. Just get what I've got. Also, there is no point in arguing over this, because we're all a stubborn lot.......................David, just telling someone how great vinyl is can be meaningless, if they aren't receptive to it. If someone starts a thread about SACD, they definitely don't want to hear about vinyl, because SACD represents the "newest toy" they can buy. They don't care that there are only a handful of titles, and that the entire software catalog is owned/licensed by Sony. They don't care that the ENTIRE OUTPUT STAGE USES CHEAP OP AMPS (and NOT just the ones used to derive the fake "balanced" outputs, either). They only care about what's NEW. They're exactly the kind of customer a dealer likes to see come in the door....................."Excuse me, hello, I'd like to buy whatever is the "latest and greatest" technology in existence, and would like it RIGHT NOW. Please don't make me wait another minute"...................And when the general public decides they aren't interested in SACD in a year or two (as they are now), Sony will still be trickling out titles from their catalog...the way they're still refusing to admit that MD is not a viable format. The point is, if you love Sony products, nobody will ever be able to convince you that buying an SCD-1 isn't better than dying and going to Heaven...whatever the "realities" are...............And I've said it before, I'll say it again, if you think the SCD-1 is better at playing CD's than any old "CD player", bring yours by my system sometime. I'm open minded, and I hope you are. |
Garfish,the "war"you refer to between analog vs digital in the early 80's was TOTALLY irrevelant to which sounded better.The mass public couldn't care less and were just waiting for something more convienent to stick in their $300.00 Sony "stereos" and boom boxes.If your friend prefers the sound of analog but listens to CD's 90 % of the time because they are 'quick and easy"then he couldn't care less either. Me? I care!!! |
David......Diana Krall and Natalie Cole sound different from each other, but one is not "better or worse" than the other-- personally I like them both-- as I do good vinyl and good digital music. Whether either of us likes it or not, in the early 80s there was a "war" between analog and digital music formats and analog lost badly. "to the victor goes the spoils". Vinyl will continue to hang on by its fingernails for years because of its perceived superior sound quality by a few afficionados such as yourself and my friend (and I'm glad it will be around). My friend has a $15K analog front end, and also an excellent CD system. I've asked him which he listens to most, and he said he preferred vinyl, but listened to CDs 90% of the time because of their quick and easy use and music availability. I responded to your "vinyl vs analog" error with sarcasm-- sorry. AudiogoN can be an enjoyable chat room so I propose a truce-- there's room for both of us. Cheers. Craig |
I jumped on the wagon and bought a Sony 777ES SACD and got it for 2000 from a dealer who didn't want to get stuck with it. I bought a few CD's and played it waiting for something to really inspire or excite me. It didn't in fact my Electrocompaniet player and my turntable were more pleasing to my ears. The SACD just brightened everything and became boring early . I unloaded it for 2700 while it was still a hot item. Maybe I will revisit it when more players and manufacturers get involved. The reviewers who gave it great just wanted to again see what they can create among us philes and as usual we fall for it. Happy listening. |
Rfeno,If your analog front end causes you to experiance annoying surface noise you really should get a better table and cartridge.Also good condition vinyl is a must.I have occasional surface noise but if done right its not an issue. |
mikeg--what is the Bybee mod on the P300? |
I couldn't agree more with all the positive feedback here. I have a what I think a very good setup of analog as well as the SACD medium. (I symphatize with all the vinyl junkies here on this thread who could tolerate with all the the surface noise LP has to offer). I think after the SACD has been given the proper burn-in time,it soundwonderful with no ear fatigue. Now I couldn't go back to listening to regular cd's. Don't get me wrong, I still listen to LP records worth listening to but I wouldn't trade my SACD to an analog record player. Listen to Sam McClain's SACD recording and you will know what I mean. |
Mikeg-also would be interested to hear your comments on the Evo amp. I was up in Minnesota to listen to one of the first ones and it failed. I use VTL MB250's that have 6550's in permanent triode config. The rep from Bel Canto says that it will retain the tube flavor and speed things up. |
2 weeks is entirely too short to fairly evaluate the SCD-1. Assuming you bought new, you're just too impatient. The SCD-1 takes over 300 HOURS to break-in. Sorry, that's just the way it is. I speak from experience as I've owned the SCD-1 since February. Just give it some time, it'll open up. VERY nicely. Two other hints: the SCD-1, like every piece of digital gear I've ever owned, definitely responds favorably to a respectable power cord. I use the ESP Essence to good effect. Also, Sony blew it with the balanced outputs, they used a pair of cheap $2 op-amps as phase splitters. If you've been listening using the balanced outputs, try listening to the single-ended outputs instead. I think you'll be shocked. |
Thanks Mikeg. This is my first post on a service like this and yours is the first useful response that I have seen. The fact of a 400 hour break-in is staggering. I do have the 30 minute PAD CD. So does this mean that I will need to break-in the SACD for 400 hrs as well? |
Jamazur. I don't have vinyl so I won't comment on how the two compares. I did previously own the CAL CL-15 and upgraded to the SCD-777ES. I think the SACD output blows away the CL-15 std cd output. You must break the player in for 400 hours. Buy the Purist Audio Breakin CD II. Things I added to upgrade my system which had a positive effect on the SCD-777ES were : PSAudio P300, Black Mamba powercord, Rosinante DarkMatter Shelf (owned before and used on CL-15 also). I have heard that the balanced output were a joke on SCD-1 so I would recommend trying a RCA interconnect. The Cable Co. is recommending Symposium Roller Blocks instead of Shelf. I also added the ByBee internal mod for the P300 (worth every penny, $200). I use a passive preamp into the Bel Canto Evo 200.2 and Nirvana S-X ic. This combination with my speakers results in the most transparent, grain free and real sounding music. |
I have not heard SACD in my own system, and if it is really vastly superior to regular CD, that would be WONDERFUL! The remaining problem is for those of us that are over 20 years old. The library of CD music has taken over 25 years to be the wonderful selection that it is today. Even if SACD is twice as popular (and I doubt the general public, non audiophiles care) it could be 10 or 15 more years to get a great selection of software to feed your system. The point here is that we need music to listen to right now! Life is short, and I for one do not want to wait forever for a miracle that is always just beyond reach. If I were a digital guy, I would get my CD's where they sounded the best I could get, and listen to the vast library that is available in that format. And, as I HAVE done, avail myself of some of the millions of LP's that are available in the traditional analog format in a sound that is simply amazing, provided you are willing to invest the time and money to get it right. |
Well,so far I have been able to find any recording on vinyl I have looked for.E-Bay alone has over 70 thousand L.P.'s to bid on,many still sealed.I pay usually under a dollar for most L.P.s I buy that demolish the $16.00 CD versions.Sometimes I splurge and spend $8-$10 on a still sealed L.P. The truth is there are way more records avaliable then you are aware of. |
David, it is definitely true that you are missing out on some great music that simply isn't availible on vinyl. I had a chance to hear a 30k analog system, and it sounded awesome, only problem was the music sucked. |
Garfish- vinyl vs analog obviously was an error.Will you start correcting others as well?? Anyway the man asked for comments on his problem.He invited responses.I gave mine and stand by it.This guy has a SACD player!! What you have all been waiting for.He is not happy.Everyone knows digital has alwys strived to sound like analog.Well do I really have to explain again?? Your statement that"good digital sounds different than good analog,but not worse"really makes no sense.and if it sounds different, then case closed. |
Carl; we were posting about the same time, so I just caught yours. Good Advice; I'm heading for my stereo now. Happy Freedom (of speech etc.) Day. Craig |
Jm is right David. Why don't you drop the snotty, superior attitude? Usually I find your posts intelligent and interesting-- what happened? He asked a legitimate question about a DIGITAL music concern. Good digital sounds different than good analog but not worse IMHO. If you choose vinyl as a music source I've got no problem with that, but why should you have a problem with those that choose something else? In this hobby we all have problems from time to time-- you should know that. BTW it would be interesting to read what you came up with if you wrote all night long on "vinyl vs analog" (your words). Cheers. Craig |
David, you know I sypmathize, but calm down. You won't win anybody over to the good side of the Force by sniping. Read what you wrote: "vinyl-vs-analog"? You meant "digital-vs-analog", didn't you? Anyway, everybody just calm down, and listen to the stereo for a while, instead of typing in cyperspace...any 3 year old kid can do that, afterall... |
My response is VERY constructive.Very brief,but to the point.I could write all night about Vinyl vs analog.You have a state of the art machine but your still not happy.Do you want analog quality music?? You must not have it now.Well then,whats the problem with going analog? |
Why not put constructive dialog in the response instead of denegrating people and the freedom of choice. |
When are all you digit-heads going to stop chasing analog sound from digital and just buy a turntable?? |
