Is extremely accurate "VTA" adjustment necessary?

Hi Thomas: Yes, correct.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

I was unaware of this arm although I have heard the
SpJ La Luce Turntable several times and have a friend with one. He is thinking about buying the Schroeder Reference. It just strikes me that it would fail the rigidity test.

A lot of men are failing the rigidity test these days...

vta stands for viaga testicular adjustment.

An Audiogon ad for an after market "on the fly" VTA product was linked in a thread @ AA. An Audiogon search of "VTA" and/or "Pete Riggle" should bring it up.

The current asking price is $99.

Can't imagine it fitting my old SME, but it might be of interest to those using inexpensive Rega arms.

I use the VTAF. Works pretty good.

Jphii:

What arm do you use with the VTAF (that's the one I refer to)?

OL250, an older one. Also tried it with a 300. No problems.

I just came across this thread. In my opinion I think "Extremely accurate VTA" is not only unecessary but rediculous.

I have to agree with good ol' Roy Gandy on this one.

I could be wrong, but I'll give my opinion as to why:

First of records are warped to begin with, different record heights, ETC. How far do we have to go to achieve sound that may or may not even be audable. In my opinion it's not audible in such small increments.

I say, get it level, or when ever you think it might be in a good spot and RELAX!

Enjoy the music,
Balance

Dr Balance, Believe me you are blessed in not being able to hear improperly set VTA. Do you listen a lot to CD's?

Newbee. I rarely listen to c.d's. I think we are all blessed but sometimes ever so slightly cursed with obsessive behaviour to the point of mental manipulation.

Update: Looks like there has been a lot more controversy about the vta article by Geoff Husband aside from this thread

Exposing the VTA myth?-Revised

The Great VTA experiment

Cartridge alignment Part 2

This is a false issue. If you hear a benefit, continue with VTA adjustment. If not, don't.

While searching for the perfect solution to my VTA dilemma I found this, I t seems to make sense although, those who sell VTA adjusters will no doubt disagree.

Rega VTA(Vertical Tracking Angle) Fact Sheet
by Roy Gandy
Quote: "Every problem has a solution. If there is no solution, there is no problem."

The Tonearm: The maximum up/down adjustment on a tonearm is about 0.5 inches (12mm). That being approximately 1 degree VTA adjustment.
[Correction: if you do the maths' a 0.5inch variation on a 9 inch arm is about a 3° variation. You can work this out yourself once you remember that the sin() of an angle is the change in the y coordinate divided by the radius, so 0.5/9 ≈ 0.055 ≈ sin(3°)]

The Cartridge: Each model of cartridge has its own unique design which also determines the stylus VTA. Rega has accurately measured the VTA on at least one hundred different cartridge models. The lowest VTA we have measured was 24° (even though the manufacturer claimed 20°) and the highest was 36°. Most cartridges have a VTA of between 28° to 32°. The VTA of Rega cartridge is approximately 28°.

The Record: The VTA of a record cutting stylus is set to give the best continuous cut of the lacquer. Records are cut with a VTA which varies between 0° and 20°. On an individual record the VTA will vary by 7° or more, depending on the type of cutting head used, the depth of cut, the musical frequency and the lacquer springback. The VTA of the groove on every individual record varies by at least 7° over the record. Every record is cut under 20°.

Futility: We can see that cartridge VTA is normally around 10° higher than the record cutting angle. And the record cutting angle varies by around 7° whilst it is being played.

THEREFORE A MAXIMUM ARM ADJUSTMENT OF ONLY 1° CAN BE SEEN TO BE COMPLETELY FUTILE.
To accurately match cartridge VTA to the record cutting angle the back of the arm would need to be well below the record (impossible!) and the cartridge VTA would need to vary at least 7° whilst playing the record!

Normal advice: Most informed advice is to keep the arm tube roughly parallel to the record surface. In fact, the VTA becomes more correct as the rear of the arm is lowered as much as possible, the limit being when the arm or cartridge touches the record.

Worst case: The most extreme situation is a record cutting angle of 0° and a cartridge VTA of 36°. The result is a VTA inaccuracy of 36°.

Question: Can there be any point in playing around with 1° of VTA?
VTA adjustment is actually a neurosis NOT a technical adjustment.

An Alternative: If you alter the playing weight of a normal cartridge by 0.1 of a gram the stylus VTA will alter by around 1.5°.

Another Alternative: If the room temperature increases by 5° F, the stylus rubber suspension will soften and decrease the VTA by 1°.

"but when I alter the VTA I hear a difference"
Of course you do. Any variation or change to the very important joint between the arm and turntable will alter the sound quality. Try simply tightening or loosening the main arm fixing nut, the sound will change. Try tightening or loosening the cartridge fixing nuts, the sound will also change. Almost any change or adjustment to a turntable/arm/cartridge will alter the sound quality if one listens with an acute level of perception.

We hope we have explained to the reader that VTA adjustment is of little or no significance. There are many other simple structural changes that are more important, such as fixing the cartridge rigidly to the arm and fixing the arm tightly to the turntable.

Triumph, he says, "ility: We can see that cartridge VTA is normally around 10° higher than the record cutting angle. And the record cutting angle varies by around 7° whilst it is being played." Where is the proof that this is true? I think it is bs.

What about Mapleshade's assertion that the suspension of the cartridge settles, and the arm needs to be raised about every 3 months to maintain proper VTA?

The up to 7 degree variation in VTA while playing presumably applies to warped records. The question then becomes: Can listeners consistently identify the warped copy in "blind" listening to the same music on two identical record pressings, one flat and one warped?

Anyone that starts to feel really confused by now please put their hands up.
I'm first!

Re Gandy's comments regarding the Rega - Wasn't one of the downsides of using a Rega TT/Arm was that there was no provision for simple repeatible adjustible VTA? If so, has anyone questioned Gandy's motive for the white paper?

It is obvious (I think even to Gandy) that setting VTA is critical to proper set-up. That proper VTA, once VTA is initially established, it is a moving target, dependible on many external issues, such as record thickness and tracking force changes for a couple of examples, doesn't mean that that you should ignore improving the VTA completely. For example I have used different TT mats with different thicknesses to compensate for different thicknesses of the record. I've even cheated by changing the tracking force a tad as well when I had a disc that needed a touch up.

Then I had an arm with VTA adjustible of the fly. The only problem, or risk if you will, of having the latter is if you become so anal about getting the perfect alignment that you spend all your time running between you listening chair and the TT adjusting VTA. Close can be good enuf, for me anyway! :-)

What I read into this fact sheet was nothing more than a rational for completely ignoring the issue, ergo the rational for buying a Rega TT.

FWIW.

Newbee, yes, a rational for ignoring adjustment of your VTA-exactly but why have to tell others it is irrelevant and give incorrect or exaggerated information?

Once I had the Wheaton tone arm with a caliper scale. I did mark about 100 records to set this. I don't do that with the Shindo Labs but do make changes for thick records, such as 200 grams.

I just set the goddam cartridge to level and forget about it. It sounds fine to me. I've got a collection of approx. 7,000 LPs, and buying more all the time. Life is short and there's too much good music to listen to.

Can I get an "amen brother"?

Enjoy!

Will_herrera,
>>> Can I get an "amen brother"? <<<

Sir, yes Sir! And all say AMEN! :-)

This whole REGA white paper rational could actually be seen just the other way round. BECAUSE of what Roy thinks about the subject the REGA tts are as they are?

I do of course figure out the best compromise with each new cart I listen to, followed by some fine tuning. But then after some time --- that's IT.
Amen brother, as life's too short. I rather get anal about other stuff (which in fact I do, e.g. cross-overs and such).
Greetings,

If your records are of different thinkness as mine are, set the TT up for 180 gram records. It will be close enough for most all your records and best for what is being pressed for the most part now. I tried at one time to adjust for different thicknesses and it drove me crazy.
IMHO be less anal and enjoy the music, this is a hobby not a job.

Its with some trepidation that I venture into these troubled waters(sounds almost like S&G!). But what the heck I have only one lifetime and only one neck to loose!!
There are some pretty asute observations and comments in this thread. My comments/observations are based on the Triplanar 7 U2. I have no experience of any other tone arm with a VTA tower.
Two facts are seemingly incontrovertible/indisputable :
1. Raising/lowering the VTA tower clearly influences the sound;
2. Adjusting VTF also has clearly discernible sonic implications.
Last night while listening to a reissue of a Parlophone pressing of the Beatles - Help, there was a bit, actually quite a lot of shrillness in the upper frequencies.It was not just irritating but almost unplayable. I turned the knob on the VTA tower clockwise 3x lowering the tower and wow the shrill bits were gone and the record sounded just right to my ears. Out of curiosity I checked the VTF with
a digital gauge( the kind that retails for USD 139 at some online stores).The VTF setting on the Transfiguration L Orpheus is normally 1.910 gm. The reading after 3 clockwise turns of the VTA tower was 1.956.At this stage my evil mind was getting hyper. Without altering the VTA setting I adjusted the VTF back to the normal 1.910. Guess what, the shrillness and upper frequency sibliance was back.
The Beatles Lp is one of those real thinny ones, 120 gm or so.
I then turned to a 180 gm lp - the new Dylan - Through life with you( sounds like Tom Waits goes to Vaudiville though there are some half decent tracks, IMHO). The VTA setting remained constant, ie with the VTA tower lowered. Despite all the nasal overtones the Dylan album was sounding real good.I then reverted to the original VTA setting by turning the tower settings anti clockwise 3x ie increasing VTA. I began to loose some of the upper frequency detail.Separation between instruments was blurred, in short the music was less enjoyable.I checked the VTF at the new VTA setting and it was about 1.880gm.
This was not a scientific experiment but merely a report on some spontaneous and off the cuff attempts to co-relate different VTA and VTF settings with changes in sound quality.
IOWs with the 120 gm lp a higher VTF was called for and the reverse with the 180 gm Dylan lp.
So whats the point of this long and possibly boring rant : simply and IMHO, with a Triplannar changes in VTA settings are actually mico metric shifts in VTF.To my mind the geometric evidence in the original TNT article is pretty solid.
Sorry to rake up a cliched issue but I guess being anal has some upsides !!
NJoy

Sunnyboy, your experiences are quite common. I used to have the Triplanar setting on each of the records I most commonly listened to. Now with my Shindo arm, I know them by changes I feel in my thumb as I raise and lower the VTA.

Many don't want to bother and thus argue it doesn't matter. Let them think so.