yup I can atest to that. getting the real deal is also more worthwhile.. better durability of the stylus. one could argue its cheaper
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Second generation of Parabolic stylus profile from Pickering (late 80’s) is great. This is XSV/4000 with white D4000 stylus (it can be also black) shipped to another audiogon member from New York, USA. In general, the second generation parabolics contact the groove with a sharper radius. Using the Stereohedrons as examples, the original Stereohedron’s tracing radius is .3 mils; the Stereohedron II’s tracing radius is .2 mils. The Stereohedron II’s bearing radius is gentler and taller, distributing the tracking force over a wider area, thus compensating groove wear for the narrower contact points. Great cartridge if you can buy it with genuine Stereohedron stylus! Always buy original styli for your Pickering, stay away from the cheap third-party styli, genuine Pickering Stereohedron profile is rare and expensive, but well worth its price, the sound quality is fantastic. Some manufacturers have used their own names for the advanced stylus profile shapes ("parabolics"). For example, Shure used the words "Hyper-Elliptical" (and more); Stanton/Pickering had "Stereohedron" and "Stereohedron II." (Trademarks). Some of these shapes were distinctly proprietary and patented (as were the Stantons). Van den Hul’s and Shibata’s, of course, were/are proprietary. There are more. The Exclusive Stereohedron Tip and the new XSV samarium cobalt magnet accounts for an extremely high output with the smallest effective tip mass. The Stereohedron tip design is the result of long research in extended frequency response for tracing of high frequency modulations. It’s not necessary to buy a very expensive cartridge designed today if we have vintage MM like Pickering XSV-4000 available in excellent condition. The Stereohedron has a large bearing surface which is distributed over a large portion of the modulated groove, and at the stated optimum tracking force of 1.2 grams, the actual force per unit area is, of course, much less and should significantly contribute to the longevity of recordings. KAB posted Stanton/Pickering cartridge-stylus compatibility chart HERE The XSV/3000 by Pickering is equal to the Stanton 881s (in the down right corner in this catalog), it was expensive cartridge in the 70’s if you will read price tag. No matter that people are telling about technical aspects, the original Stanton (881, 981 or their low impedance versions) or Pickering (3000, 4000, 5000 or their low impedance versions like 4500 & 7500) from the top echelon are absolutely amazing cartridges. The 881 and 3000 are the cheapest of them, still very nice, but not as good as the higher models.Using fake stylus with those great carts is a risk to ruin the original sound! |
@tzh21y iq3 is same as 1042 but with audio note tweak. supposed to be better. but tip replacement can use 1042.. I haven't tried it. 1042 if buy eBay 400 or less. gyger is mentioned to be a form of line contact by vdh. it look like a claw. so not exactly shibata. it's a pain to setup.. like all hi end stylus. although... spec doesn't look great.. but the stage width, depth. detail. energy seperation, saturation, musicality, bass speed.. is all good.nothing to complain even at 600 usd. the legendary carts subjectively and objectively could be better and more fun to explore |
@lewm : "
And or you are wrong or have a high misunderstood that was designed for CD4 " that's what I posted and where you are wrong. I own the 981MK2 and Pickering too and in no one of the original manual information speaks nothing about CD-4 as in other vintage cartridges coming from AT or Empire and others as Grace, etc. Btw, in the the 4000D3 Empire stated in specific its design for CD-4 using even a better stylus tip " four dimensional miniature tip of only 0.001 mil tracing radius against the 0.003 of Stanton one where the Empire tracks perfectly at as low as 0.25grs. VTF ! ! ! this is really unique not that normal Stanton stylus tip. As I told you " stereohedron " is only a name and nothing special. Even Stanton load impedance specs is 47kohms against the 100kohms spec for Empire, Grace and others. @tzh21y I own this reson and it's really good performer too and yes better than your Pickering: https://www.reson.de/screen/product/reca/language/en R. |
Dear @lewm : Look the Stereohedron is not a " big deal " and the Shibata and Shibata like is and has wider contact with the grooves and you can confirm in the link I post here. You can see there that the stereohedron is similar to an elliptic, LAC ( Empire ), fine line or hiperelliptical and Shibata is way better in that regards. P.Lenderman has a misunderstood because the stereohedron is not a shibata like: https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Audio/Archive-Audio/80s/Audio-1981-03.pdf Read the page 23 and you will see the fig. 4 that speaks for it self. If LPGear replacement stylus comes with Shibata then it’s not even a fake but a better stylus than the original one !. If I remember was Audio Technica the first or one of the first to use true Shibata stylus shape. The Ortofon 2M Black comes with Shibata stylus shape. R. |
Raul, I yield to your superior knowledge on this subject, but with all due respect, your post does not contradict mine, unless you are saying that the Stereohedron does not have an extended treble response. I refer you to this article from the Sound Smith website: https://www.sound-smith.com/articles/stylus-shape-information Here, Ledermann discusses the Shibata and Shibata-like stylus shapes, of which the stereohedron is one. Other companies had their own pet names for their similar "hyper-elliptical" stylus shapes which had a response out to 45kHz. The side benefit of that was their ability to play 4 channels LPs. The fact that the Grace F9E (an elliptical) and the Technics cartridges you name may also be able to play "CD-4" does not negate my point about the Stereohedron. Nor does it speak to the question of what LP Gear is selling as a replacement for the Stereohedron to use with vintage Pickering or Stanton cartridges that were originally sold with Stereohedron styli. LP Gear say they are selling a Shibata-type replacement stylus, and it may perform very well on the Pickering and Stanton cartridges which originally were sold with the Stereohedron, but it is dimensionally slightly different from the Stereohedron, which may or may not alter the SQ. And that was my main point, in reference to Mijostyn's post. |
Dear @tzh21y : Certainly not a downgrade and other than Ortofon exist other today cartridges that outperforms what you have on hand today: Nagaoka, Audio Note series IQ, Audio Technica, Goldring, Garrot, et, etc. @anthonya : "" the old stuff last longer too and better materials "" please tell me why last longer. Which cartridges last longer than today ones? and which vintage cartridges came with better materials than today designs? Btw, @lewm """ stereoHedron shape which was exclusive to Pickering and Stanton cartridges of that day. I think the stereoHedron stylus was originally designed in order to accommodate 4channel audio LPs which had a brief lifetime in the marketplace. Frequency response out to 50,000 Hz "" stereohedron is just a name as the analog6 in AKG, or microline, shibate, or other stylus shape designs or the one that comes in your Acutex or any vintage/today cartridge designs. And or you are wrong or have a high misunderstood that was designed for CD4 Look the Grace F9E came with no line contact stylus shape and worked truly fine with CD-4 as did it the Technics 205/EPC 100C that goes out to not 50khz but over 100khz and came with ellipthical stylus shapes as the Audio Technica models that worked fine with the CD-4. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
Mijo, I agree with you that what LPGEar sells are not fakes, in the sense that they are real diamonds, and real styluses. However what no one has reproduced in the modern era is the stereoHedron shape which was exclusive to Pickering and Stanton cartridges of that day. I think the stereoHedron stylus was originally designed in order to accommodate 4channel audio LPs which had a brief lifetime in the marketplace. Frequency response out to 50,000 Hz. And no, Chakster, I do not think that there is a hidden cache of stereoHedron styluses lying around somewhere in the USA. I would not doubt however that some private collectors are hoarding them. I have one that I keep as a spare for my Stanton 981LZS. I’ve got Pickering XSV series too. By all accounts, the Black is a great cartridge, and readily available. Clearaudio moving magnet cartridges are rebranded cartridges made by someone else, is what I was always led to believe. Further, there is a price markup associated with having the clearaudio brand name on them. |
the old stuff last longer too and better materials. black is really overpriced. nagaoka or goldring is better value. or... ol style. which I personally prefer.commonly 30- 35 db seperation on those old style cart is not a force to be reckon with. only challenge is the condition of stylus. it's a hit a miss and requires patience. I just buy one after another. I had ortofon before and not interested to own another one. but that's just me. if I go expensive 1k above . I would simply pick soundsmith.. my kind of sound. but I had yet go there. there is still so much to hear. |
Maybe more like sideways tzh. @chakster , I would not call them fake, they are real just not made by Pickering. I would not bet on the performance or durability but they seem to review well and are $129 which is relatively inexpensive compared to buying a new cartridge. I do not see any NOS stock online for the XSV 5000. I owned several Pickerings and Stantons in the past and preferred them to Shures and Empires. But there are modern dual magnet and moving iron designs that are just as good if not better. Now that I think of it the Goldring 1042 sounds most like the Pickering XSV 5000 if my memory serves me correctly. It is a $600 with a Gyger S stylus, the same one used on the $16,000 Goldfinger. |
all LP Gear styli are fake, I like Pickering XSV/5000 better than my Grado Signature XTZ. Honestly I have no idea why anyone should even think about moden MM, the sound of top Pickering is oustanding, silky smooth, this is one of the most involving sounding MMs. The XSV/3000 is not the top of the line, but it’s about $300 cartridge and for $300 it’s impossible to find anything better (imo). For another $300-400 original NOS Stereohedron stylus is nice (not LP Gear’s fake). I mever tried D4000 stylus on XSV/3000 cartride, must be compatible, this is next stylus after D3000. I believe D5000 is Stereohedron mk2 profile (even better). In my system this cart is competing with $2000 LOMC cartridges and I love it. You guys in the States should be able to find a deadstock full of Pickering or Stanton cartridges and styli at some old shops. I managed to buy D3000 and D4000 NOS and I’m happy to buy more if possible. |
tzh21y, think there are modern moving magnet/moving Iron cartridges that are better. Not sure about the Ortofon M2 Black. The Clearaudio Charisma and Maestro V2 are probably better but very expensive. Soundsmith, Grado, Goldring and Audio Technica also make excellent cartridges and some of them are very competitively priced. The least expensive thing to do is get a replacement stylus for your Pickering. LP Gear has them. If you like the sound this may be the way to go. No guarantee but other people like the service. |
