Interconnect cable upgrade disapointment


I have recently upgraded my Audioquest Topaz XLR interconnects from my amp to preamp and from my preamp to my CD player with Audioquest Cobra XLRs. I was expecting to hear a substantial difference based on the significant price difference between these cables but I hardly noticed any difference at all. If I need to break in the interconnects to have an apples to apples comparison I would appreciate tips on how to do so. Currently, I have a CD playing on repeat. How long will the break in period take and can I expect to observe a substantial difference? Your help would be greatly appreciated.
papajoe

Showing 6 responses by douglas_schroeder

If the geometry and total gauge of the two are not that dissimilar, then you have your results - more the same than different. You will not get a sea change in performance from break in. Your ears may acclimate to the sound, but that should not be confused with performance improvement.

Sounds like the upgraded Cobra fails the Law of Efficacy in comparison to the Topaz, in that there was not a significant, easily discernible difference (we could say "worthwhile", as opposed to your experience, "hardly any difference at all"). I would suggest going to an entirely different line of cables, where you likely would hear a much more distinct difference.

There is one other possibility, which we could eliminate if we knew what equipment you are running. If you have closer to Mid-Fi gear then you likely would not be able to discern differences between the cables nearly as easily as if you have higher end gear. This is not a judgment, merely a statement of fact. Rules of thumb are not exact, but can be helpful. If you have any or all of the following, 2 way smaller monitor speakers, vintage gear, or a rig not much beyond $5K, then you will likely not hear much difference. If you run a rig with what is approaching a true full range floor standing speaker, current and higher end gear, maybe in the $30K-$40K total cost category, then you should be able to hear more of a difference. IF you have that kind of rig and the difference is marginal, then the cable is likely a virtual clone of the earlier model, or Audioquest made a lateral move (at least to you) in improving their cables.

Even when I had a modest rig I could hear what I felt at the time were significant improvements between AQ cables. However, that was within the same line; the Topaz is the old line, and the Cobra is the new. What differences exist between them, aside from cosmetics, I am unsure. A breakdown of the configuration of the two cables might provide the answer.

I never depend on break in period to determine whether a change is efficacious. If the difference is not significant immediately, discernible within seconds to a minute or two - several minutes at the most, then it was a mistake or mismatch and if kept will limit how much improvement you will achieve, as you will be settling for only a marginal change. Any change which does not strike you as impressive is not worth considering. There are FAR too many fabulous improvements out there in cables, components and speakers to settle for mediocre changes.

Joe, your equipment is good. It's possible your dealer has another line of cables to try. It's very likely you will hear more difference trying a different brand. Also, cables have a "compounding" effect; the more changed the more you can move toward your desired sound - that is, if you like what the cables do.

Note well: It is definitely NOT necessary to spend inordinate amounts within the same cable line to achieve a much different sound. Different brands have sonically quite different "house" sounds. Many times the average priced cables of different brands will sound significantly different. This is why I suggest an alternative brand to compare.
Shadorne, It's very likely he didn't hear a distinct difference, because there is not a distinct difference in the cables themselves. If someone can demonstrate that the Topaz and Cobra are quite different from each other, the I'll be happy to reconsider the conclusion.

I don't believe it has anything to do with how well matched his gear is. Of course, the better the synergy/match between box gear the better the assessment of the cables. :)
Musicnoise, I'll be eager to read the results of your blind testing on your speaker isolation bases you plan on building (I'm sure you'll be posting it here)!

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1221925281

Seems any of us can be a bit inconsistent; after all, what evidence scientifically do you have that your home made isolation devices would result in improved sound over speaker spikes (In fact, I don't recall seeing much of ANY scientific studies on the efficacy of speaker stands)? Maybe you'd better start ripping on the speaker stand makers while you're at it. They're probably a bunch of crooks too. Maybe those sound isolation devices, and room tuning panel guys as well...

I'm thinking you'd have a really tough time distinguishing between the sound of your speakers in blind tests if they were set on spikes, carpeting or your supports. But, hey, if you believe your spring box device will work, GO for it!

You'd better watch that you get the absolutely correct rubber and wood; we wouldn't want a botched job due to poor materials!

It seems we all have our prejudices based on presumption. You presume cables cannot have efficacy, but that rubber and wood boxes do. And it's all happening in your head. Amazing what we can believe! :)

We don't really care to entertain any reports from you about improvements on the sound of your speaker springy things, or whatever you want to call them. We want real science. Your anecdotal report would be more akin to support for Yeti or UFOs! Really, I didn't think you were such an anti-scientific guy.

Sorry if I've been a bit sarcastic; couldn't help it. You're just a bit over-aggressive in this matter and someone has to call you on it!

Flyin2jz, it's amazing isn't it when you actually do the comparisons and hear it. No major scientific tests needed. The ears can tell quite easily the improvement. Yea, even "night and day."

One thing that is becoming clear to me through online discussions is that virtually no one has actually conducted comparisons between suites of cables. It seems that typically one cable is changed, one power cord, etc. No wonder so many give up or conclude cables have no effect. Between so-so systems, hearing problems, playing solely in the lower price brackets and similar constraints it's falling into place why people reach the wrong conclusions. Not to mention stubborn refusal to try based on distrust.

Now, I'll be very sincere. Musicnoise, I believe your home made box WILL work; it will make a discernible change in the sound. I do not think it is a foolish idea; however I do believe you should incorporate spikes with it for the ultimate isolation effect. I sincerely hope you will enjoy the difference, and I believe that you will hear it. Unless you will conduct actual blind tests, all you will have to show for it is the same anecdotal evidence persons like myself offer, which you have been mocking.

So, trust me, saying that cables make a difference isn't nearly as crazy as you think. Soon you may be joining us, albeit from the isolation device perspective.
"Seems like I have touched a nerve - do I detect one with a pecuniary interest in cables? And no, I won't be joining you on the cable adventure - I have heard the cable argument for going on 20 years and it is as meritless today as it was 20 years ago."

You're right, you touched a nerve; I think you've got a lot of nerve making pronouncements when you seemingly have done nothing to test it out. Then, in arrogance dismiss the reports of those who have done comparisons. You really think your logic is wonderful. I know, I used to be just like you.

I think in this post you reveal your true motivation: Mistrust

No, you do not detect, "one with a pecuniary interest in cables," as you are speaking with someone who conducted tests with suites of cables on his own dime - sometimes tying up $4-5K in extra cables for comparisons, then to sell them off -years before becoming a reviewer. Sorry, wrong assumption on your part, but it confirms the deep suspicion and mistrust that lies underneath your dismissal of cables.

I became convinced of my perspective on cables before I had any part in reviewing. In fact, it was all my informal comparisons of suites of cables which led me to conduct three reviews of cable groupings quickly after becoming a reviewer. I wanted to conduct more listening tests to confirm what I had found on my own. Reviewing has only strenghened the conclusions I already reached. I have had more access to cables from all levels of quality and different brands. My conclusion about the efficacy of cables is verified on a weekly basis, and witnessed by audiophiles whom I invite into my room. So, yes, it gets tiresome to hear someone with almost zero experience act like they know it all in regards to what cables can/can't do.

Why the suspicion simply because I mention that I review? You don't believe people when they're sharing experiences? You think there's always a fiscal (almost an evil audiophile) ulterior motive? Pretty sad. At least those who are not so jaded can learn something here.

I wish you well in your isolation device endeavor. :)
Musicnoise, you said, "As to comparing cables by listening to them, I cannot say that I have extensively engaged in that practice..."

My point exactly. Thank you for clarifying.