Impressions of Coincident Speakers

@brownsfan

I’m a bit more optimistic about you getting a satisfactory sound with the SVIIIs if you are willing to use REW measurement

+1

Charles

@bradf Depending on how far the speakers are from the front wall, I sit between 10 and 12.

I think currently Im sitting about 10' with the front of the speakers out 5 feet (approx) front baffle to front wall.  One limiting factor is I really can't move my seating any further aft, due to a division in wood and carpet flooring. The aft legs of the sofa are near the edge of the carpet.

Hi Brad,

I really suspect that 10 to 12' sitting distance will be fine for you. Although the Total Eclipse II are not identical to the Super Victory III, they share 1st order crossover design and Coincident similarities. Israel Blume does insist on certain philosophical and implementation ideas  that I believe apply to all of his speakers. 

I sit 10 ' from my speakers and the vast majority of the time I cannot place the music on the face of the speakers.  In other words the music seems to be everywhere but the speaker location. Now of course this varies depending on the recordings in use.  My point is that the speakers effectively disappear in the listening room with good placement and totally affected only by the. recording limitations. 

Just have this experience last Night. The musicians were either in my room or I was seated in their recording venue (Again it varies on the recording). Bill's suggestion of using a software program is an excellent idea. I did not but I just got lucky with my room😊. Brad thanks for your kind comments above and I wish you the best in this endeavor. 

Charles 

@brownsfan 

I might question the designer’s business model but never his ears. There is not a single piece of Coincident gear that I have heard that is not true to tone. That includes the electronics. At best, coincident gear is capable of sublime beauty.

Bill, very interesting how you succinctly summarized Coincident ’s greatest strength (And they do many things well) . Purity and truth of tone/timbre. As you well know I own the Statement Line Stage, Frankenstein 300b and speakers. They do in fact share this trait. Israel Blume does rightfully deserve credit for this accomplishment. "Capable of sublime beauty " this has been my experience. Well said Bill.👍

Charles

@prof 

No problem I understand,  you have to use whatever criteria you're most comfortable with.  The Coincident Total Eclipse II I own simply sound splendid and that's kept me thrilled for over 12 years. So for me actually listening has been the overwhelming deciding criteria I rely on. 

Charles 

I don’t know if the designer has upped his game since then.

Yes he has upped his game considerably from those early years (circa 1996) . Ironically Recent and current generation Coincident speakers are admired for their relatively minimal coloration as several posters on this thread have pointed out. Needless to say no speaker is truely "colorless "

Charles

Hi Bill (@brownsfan)

I'm glad you chimed in with your always intelligent, thoughtful and insightful perspective.  It's always appreciated. 

Charles 

@bradf

Even thought this speaker has the cabinet and electronic design, component type (Ribbon Tweeter) and quality, and the sonic attributes that I look for in a speaker, it s application in my room is questionable. While not being able to audition this speaker and the "Absolutely No Return" policy may be more of a risk and/or loss that I am willing to accept.

These are astute observations and reinforce the reality of some degree of tradeoffs have to be recognized and accepted. Every speaker is going to have its own package of positive and negative aspects.

With the Super Victory III there’s no return policy (Negative) however buying them direct lowers their cost compared to most other arrangements (Positive). You are buying a well thought out, established and high quality product. No question there’s stiff competition from other quality manufacturers held in high regard.

I just believe that the more scrutiny applied will uncover concerns about literally any speaker as none represent perfection. I do understand the concerns regarding side firing woofers. In my case the woofers facing inward was just okay. When I changed to outward firing position this resulted in a "substantial " improvement. Case by case scenario as it will simply depend on one’s listening room acoustics.

Front firing woofers are certainly an alternative solution but they’ll have their own placement considerations as well. It’s always going to be something that’s going to have to be dealt with 😊. I happen to believe the Super Victory III and the LTA amplifier would be a marvelous sounding match. But certainly to be fair you do have other teriffic options available.

Brad, so it seems that Coincident has replaced the Solens capacitor with Auricaps, an improvement I’m sure. Must give credit, even with the Solens my speakers were very good. But as mentioned before the sound quality escalated with the wonderful Duelund CAST copper foil capacitors.

Many good choices and paths to follow without question. Coincident speakers and LTA surely represents one.

Charles

Hi brad,

Just to clarify I have the Total Eclipse II and not the Super Eclipse which is the model below the Totals (And highly praised in their own right). The stock tweeter capacitor is a Solens. I replaced these (Only 1 capacitor per speaker) with the Duelund CAST copper foil.  Sound went from  "very good"  to a full step upward in sound quality. Expensive capacitors and yet a true bargin for the level of improvement rendered. Increased resolution/openess and became even more organic, very impressive capacitors. I don't know how similar the Super Victory III crossover is in regard to parts. I suspect not too different. 

Charles 

@bradf 

Im trying to figure out if because of the moderate wattage typically used to drive these speakers if the woofer output is more tame and neighbor friendly at moderate listening levels then what a separate sealed box 500 watt, integral amp REL type subwoofer would produce (even at a lower volume level). I want to hear what's on the recording and hear the lower register of the kick drum but not at the expense of disturbing neighbors. 

Brad in my opinion you will be fine. I wouldn't say that the bass reproduction is "tame" it is present yet controlled,  certainly not  overemphasized or too prominent. It will be suitably proportional to the volume level chosen. I believe that the proposed LTA push pull amplifier is going to be a fantastic pairing with the Coincident Super Victory III. 

I really suspect that this combination is going to be very open, transparent,  3 dimensional with beautiful tonality and harmonics but avoiding gratuitous warmth.

Charles 

@bradf 

The Coincident Total Eclipse II were built from the ground up to be very compatible with tube amplifiers and this includes SET amplifiers (Thus the high 14 ohm impedance and 94 db sensitivity),  The other aspect to ensure successful pairing with tube amplifiers is the tuning of the woofers. So the chosen Q factor was addressed to provide sufficient damping and bass control. 

In my opinion Coincident got this 'very right'  excellent control without being overdamped. I've used 3 different tube amplifiers,  100 watt push pull KT 88/ 40 watt push pull el 34/8 watt SET 300b. No issues whatsoever with any of them.

  I also have used a loaned Lamm 90 watt push pull amplifier and a First Watt S.I.T ( 35 push pull D.I,Y. version).  The bass control, impact and texture was really good with each despite their distinct sonic signatures being easily preserved.  

In general terms I can say that the Coincident sound is high resolution/low degree of coloration/very open presentation. With good placement the speakers seem to disappear from the room (Depending on the recording in use). Definitely high resolution and clarity but thankfully not analytical or clinical sounding by any stretch.

The Super Victory III with the ribbon tweeter could be perhaps more resolved than my speaker with the soft dome tweeter (But perfect for me😊). One more comment,  the musical pace and flow characteristics are very fluid and natural.  Definitely not a stiff or mechanical type of presentation. I hope that this helps somewhat.  I've had the Total Eclipse II for over 12 years and they along with my 300b SET mono blocks are not going anywhere. 

Charles 

@bradf

Gon member @clevelandbrownsfan has owned the Super Victory II for a few years and drives them with Atma-sphere M-60 OTLs and loves the pairing. It seems to me that the el 34 LTA amplifier should also be an excellent match.

Charles

@jond

I don’t believe that I can offer much meaningful help. The only Devore speaker I’ve heard is the Orangutan 96 model and that was under audio show conditions (RMAF, I had a nice conversion with John Devore who was very pleasant).

I have previous generation Coincident speakers (Total Eclipse II) which are different from what @bradf is interested in, the Super Victory III. I honestly don’t know how similar these different models compare sonically.

Total Eclipse II, 94 db and 14 ohm impedance load, Scan Speak Revelator silk soft dome tweeter/two 6.5" midrange drivers/two 10" woofers.

Super Victory III, 92db and 10 ohm impedance load, ribbon tweeter/ one 7" midrange driver/ one 12" woofer.  Both.are 1st order crossover designs (But quite possibly different parts).

Charles