do yourself a favor and get a jitter remover device and hook this up wih a good toslink cable with the mini adapter (sold at fry's for $2) from your imac. then use the best coax digital cable you can afford to hook this jitter device to your external dac. i was impressed when i 1st went from the imac into a dac, but there was a huge jump when i inserted the jitter device between the computer and the dac. |
The digital output on the Mac 3.5mm mini jack is ONLY via optical - so no way around toslink (unless you go the USB route). If you us a mini to RCA cable it will only carry an analog signal from the mini output. |
I did not know it was only optical. Thanks.
No USB DAC for me. Been there, done that. Didn't like it. My current source is iTransport. Looking for more remote freedom, larger screen, w/ iTunes. |
I compared the optical out to the USB output using the Benchmark DAC1USB
and USB was better by quite a bit. I would prefer USB anytime based on that.
Of course, on many DACs the USB input is just implemented as a second
thought - not sure what USB DAC you listened to.
Also I guess the iTransport has a SPDIF/RCA out, no? |
restock - the output on the mac can be for analog or digital. if you buy the cheap mini-to-rca cable from monster, you will get analog. if you get a quality toslink cable and buy the mini adapter for it, you will then have a digital cable. what happens is this mini-toslink adapter is a little longer and allows the digital signal to come thru. i use this method in my setups. the mini to rca sounds terrible.
its interesting that you think benchmark dac w/usb was far better using the usb connection. all the reviews indicated that the usb connection was inferior to the coax and toslink connections. i also listened to the benchmark and the bel canto dacs with usb connections and they were inferior to the coax and toslink connections. i preferred the bel canto over the benchmark. but i also preferred other dacs over the benchmark but they cost much more. also, these more expensive dacs only use glass,coax,toslink, and bnc, no usb with good reason.
if you want a quality dac using usb, check out the new audio research or ps audio dacs. i heard the ar at rmaf and it sounded very nice. did not do any comparisons with the other connections but the rep told me that they designed the dac to make the usb connection every bit as good as the other connections, something that the prior vendors didn't do. i also talked to ps audio at rmaf and they were working on their latest usb dac. |
restock - the output on the mac can be for analog or digital. if you buy the cheap mini-to-rca cable from monster, you will get analog. if you get a quality toslink cable and buy the mini adapter for it, you will then have a digital cable. what happens is this mini-toslink adapter is a little longer and allows the digital signal to come thru. i use this method in my setups. the mini to rca sounds terrible. I completely agree and I did state above that you get analog and digital out of the mini connector. However, you do NOT get a DIGITAL S/PDIF signal with a mini to RCA cable. its interesting that you think benchmark dac w/usb was far better using the usb connection. all the reviews indicated that the usb connection was inferior to the coax and toslink connections. i also listened to the benchmark and the bel canto dacs with usb connections and they were inferior to the coax and toslink connections. i preferred the bel canto over the benchmark. but i also preferred other dacs over the benchmark but they cost much more. also, these more expensive dacs only use glass,coax,toslink, and bnc, no usb with good reason. Most reviews I read state that USB on the Benchmark/Mac combo is superior to the optical out. Only stereophile made a mistake in the use of the Audio MIDI controller on the Mac which resulted in worse measurements and was corrected in the later issue. Which other review indicated that USB was inferior on the DAC1USB? I did a blind comparison with some friends (slim transporter vs. toslink vs. usb) and the preferred one was unanonymously the USB out of the Mac Mini. In contrast, and as far as I read, the USB implementation on the Bel Canto is only an afterthought and not well implemented. So far the only companies that paid attention to USB implementation were Benchmark and Wavelength. Good to hear PS Audio may be improving that as well. Also, Ayre is coming out with a new DAC with a USB interface designed by Wavelength. |
With regards to USB DAC's; I tried a number of them over a year ago when I decided to migrate to a music server and sold my CDP (Accustic Arts CDP-1). I auditioned everything from cheap computer store types under $100, like the SilverStone EB01, to around $1K with the Benchmark DAC1, Bel Canto e.One Dac3, PS Audio DL, and on up to the Wavelength Brick and $3500 Cosecant. None of them were satisfying enough. And if a $3500 USB DAC wasn't doing it for me, then I had to try something else.
Of the USB DAC's I auditioned the Benchmark took the prize for the worst sound. It was just terrible. This surprised me given all the praise. The PS Audio was actually the most impressive for the cost in my humble opinion. Very smooth and analog-isque. The Brick excelled when I used NOS tubes, coming close to the Cosecant. The Bel Canto was defective. I tried two and the USB did not work. Perhaps the Stahl-Tek Vekian may have proven to be the ultimate solution, but then again I didn't have $12K.
I went some months, off and on, w/o a source. Sooloos, like the Vekian, was way too expensive for a music server (a high-end computer that will be obsolete in 6 months). Another one, Resolution Audio, only sold as a whole system. Then I tried the Squeezebox3 (digital output only, of course). This was much better then the USB DAC's. But it had constant drop-out issues. That turned me off wireless. So there just wasn't a complete, reliable, and affordable solution that I liked. This is what happens when you get into the 'high' of high-end audio with tube based gear and horn speakers. The bar is set too high. But at least my source can never out perform the rest of the system. I'll hear everything.
My system has changed since, but the iTransport via a Stealth Varidig digital IC w/ custom RCA's to a Reimyo DAP-777 has proven to be the most satisfying digital I have heard from my system in 18 years. I even tried a couple reputable USB/SPDIF converters. Aaack!! Atrocious. |
I've been at this computer setup for over a year now. First with a Musiland MD10, then a new Benchmark DAC1 (kept for 10 months), then a Bel Canto DAC3 (kept for a week) and now a MHDT Havana for a month. The Havana wins out. The Bel Canto was p#ss poor as far as USB implementation. I wish I still had the DAC1 to compare now that I resolved the power problems I've been plagued with, as it was incredibly bright but I think with the right setup it may work out alright.
Source is an IMac 20 feeding an Empirical Audio Turbo-3 via USB, then digital coax to the DAC, then to a Rogue tube amp (Itunes providing the volume attenuation, which contrary to popular opinion works perfectly in my setup). Just as long as your girlfriend, wife or kids (or all three) don't click on any website that produces video playback automatically, otherwise the speakers would be toast.
One crucial (absolutely crucial) lesson in all of this for me is the power noise the computer throws off. If you don't deal with it, it will impart a lot of harshness/sibilance, regardless if the DAC or whatever conversion device you use says it isolates power and deal with jitter (i.e. Bel Canto, Benchmark or Empirical). The IMac is just as susceptible to power problems as a CD player or DAC (moreso given it's design intent, which definintely isn't as a music server).
Digital power cords work wonderfully on the computer and obviously the DAC, as I was just about to throw in the towel with my setup until I got a hold of a couple to try. Siblance is all but reduced and etch is nearly eliminated. And that's with using silver ICs which to this point I never had much luck with.
Sorry for the winded message and it's always YMMV. |
'Bright' is an accurate description of how I would describe the Benchmark USB DAC1. So bright in fact that I analogized it as; "the walls of my ears were being stripped, like solvents to paint". It was simply a case of being outclassed by the rest of my system, as were the other USB DAC's. I could hear their limitations, like bad digital transfers viewed on a 1080p plasma.
I used a high-end silver power cord with my iMac, plugged into a Walker VelocitorS. I like to keep my system simple. Shortest path possible. Avoiding all the extra cables and devices and power cords.... |
I've tried several times running the IMac into my Hydra-6. Everytime I do i get an improvement in dynamics. blacker background, blah blah blah, but it always tilts the upper frequencies too much. Regardless of powercords on the IMac or Hydra, the amp I'm using, ICs on the DAC, etc. At least I've convinced myself I'm not full of sh#t or hearing things, because it's definitely a constant. |
i had the same opinion about the benchmark dac. stereophile loves it because they probably get $$$$$ for advertisements. there are many other dacs out there that are much better. i liked my old cal audio sigma II tube dac better and that was $200.
for my music server system, i isolate the computer from the music by using the airport express units. i also have hooked up my mac mini and now a 24" imac using optical cables to jitter devices. using optical cables, you isolate any computer noise that would be possible to transfer thru copper.
i also have played with the sooloos system. what a waste of $$$ IMO. you get a decent interface and thats about it. my iphone remote app does a better job at presenting music anywhere in my house than the sooloos does. and when you cost out the sooloos system with the appropriate setup to make it fault tolerant (raid setup), able to perform backups, whole house server, terabytes worth of storage, you are approaching $20k+ and it contains a terrible dac (that might be updated by now). again, IMO. |
for my music server system, i isolate the computer from the music by using the airport express units. I don't know, every time I try the Airport Express into a DAC (Museatex Bitstream, Benchmark, Lavry, and some others) it was downright unlistenable - talking about bright and edgy. I didn't like the first version of the Benchmark either and had similar complaints - however the USB version is significantly better and at least through the USB have no complaints about bright and edgy anymore. Compared to much better DACs (and especially analog), I would rather describe the DAC1USB as two-dimensional, veiled, and lacking tonal color and texture. |
I go directly from the IMac to the Processor (Krell HTS7.1) with a 37' run of Toslink from Lifatec and IMHO it sounds really good. I agree with those that want to keep it simple. |
restock - i agree with you. each time i hooked up either a computer or the AE to an external dac, it was ok, not great. but when i inserted a jitter device in the middle, and started to use a better decoder on itunes, both together, made a huge difference but at a cost of using 3 times the disk space. |
"i also have played with the sooloos system. what a waste of $$$ IMO. you get a decent interface and thats about it. my iphone remote app does a better job at presenting music anywhere in my house than the sooloos does. and when you cost out the sooloos system with the appropriate setup to make it fault tolerant (raid setup), able to perform backups, whole house server, terabytes worth of storage, you are approaching $20k+ and it contains a terrible dac (that might be updated by now). again, IMO." That's rather harsh criticism about the Sooloos. Hard to imagine it's as bad as you describe it for the cost. I know a local dealer who carries it (haven't had a chance to audition), but he wouldn't do so unless it performed up there with the best sources. He uses a Stahl-tek Vekian DAC with it. |
