If you have ever bought anything from HSU research
This has me scratching my head. I have heard about these people for years, I finally bought one a VTK 12 incher.
I got it back to my house and the cabinet was punctured.
I took pictures notified them and they sent a call tag. I had to wait all day etc. Over the weekend after they got it back, I told them I didn't want it and wanted a full refund.
I couldn't try the unit and have to say the one I got was very very cheaply made. I had sawdust all over my floor, the driver was made of paper in short it was pretty crappy.
Of course being a greedy little internet company they tried to place it under their 30 days policy even though the unit I got was defective.
They have said all kinds of things that are untrue to the credit card company to keep this $99.00. Especially candy.
On a whim and this is what the thread is about I called FEDEX with my original tracking number in order to make a claim, I figure hell you have the sub and are still charging me money I will look into it. No more than a week after they got the unit back. They were paid in full for the SUB at retail not wholesale and were also paid for shipping to and from my house. Only the cabinet was damaged not the driver or amp.
They are still trying to charge me a fee, Not sure if they hit their head or what, but this is FRAUD.
I am just letting others know if enough people have been bilked out 100.00 a class action suit is in order. I can't be the only one
I have had nothing but positive experiences. The OP has nothing better to do with his/her time than post a grievance. Move on. I’ve spoken with Dr. Hsu personally when I have called. Your argument is specious. Go away. This forum is not for you.
Looks like this was a private feud that made little sense. In any case, I have bought three subs from them and consulted them in the process and had nothing but good experience with them.
And that is a great thing, I am glad you personally have had a good experience with them. I am just relaying my experience. Its devolved into a bit of a flame war but I knew that going in. I really don't have much legal acumen but I am really aware when someone is pulling a fast one. again this is for people that may want to pursue getting their money back, I assume that the OP that have had a positive experiences would not want that or maybe they do. I really can't say what anybody else will and will not do.I can only realy my own experience
like seemingly everyone else here, i've had only positive dealings with hsu, both in terms of product and service. i don't doubt that the op sincerely believes he's been wronged in some way by hsu, but you would think that given the op's stated legal acumen and knowledge he would wish to pursue his legal remedies rather than simply wail on about a manufacturer who's not here to respond. otherwise, most might conclude he's simply a stroke.
But to those that have had a good experience, in no way am I trying to convince you didn't and you are not going to convince me otherwise
Also nothing against the Old Testament but the Torah predates that considerably, and I was just quoting Jewish myth. I have not studied the Torah or it's esoteric teachings but have run into a center that uses it's teachings in healing others. They actually pattern after Jason Schulman I believe.
There are probably persons on audiogon that have been taught the teachings and are a better source than me any day of the week.
Halcro, you sure showed him! I, for one, do thoroughly enjoy grown men correcting other grown men's grammar!! This never ceases to amuse me. BRILLIANT! Yes...Oh and thank you for going all Old Testament here!! Good choice!...humorous thread, indeed.
maybe they are the same angels that taught Noah the secrets of Kabbalah
Hmmm....according to the Old Testament....in Noah's time Judaism had not yet been born...❓👀 And there is a difference between 'there' and 'their'....but perhaps detail and comprehension are not your strong points as evidenced by this Thread...❓
again based on my experience, I personally don't care what you think, it isn't relevant if it is conjecture.
this is just a ridiculous statement
"And obviously you're not at all curious as to why many complete strangers with no skin in the game would come to Hsu's defence. Could it be because their customer service is top notch and everybody knows it? Could it be that they've been at the top of the sub market for over a decade? Could it be that they make some of the best subs for $$ spent?"
again this thread is not for people that want to laud them, you aren't privy to there business practices either.
I am not bitter in the least I got my money back, I am just sharing my experience with others so they can get theirs it may not be much but is still $99.00 bucks.
That is all this is, my personal experience, no amount of conjecture by others that have no direct experience can change my experience with them.
there is no thinking if you haven't dealt with them and had this happen.
In fact I see where the views have increased , I also wanted to mention that they don't sell on Amazon anymore.
Viab, you really gotta get over yourself, you've been on this crusade for 8 months now. You make idiotic statements like saying Hsu would take the parts out of the damaged sub and somehow re-sell. The fact is you have absolutely no idea what they would do. The subs are in fact made in China. So they'd have to pay to send the harvested parts back to China to be re-installed at random in another sub, which makes no sense.
And obviously you're not at all curious as to why many complete strangers with no skin in the game would come to Hsu's defence. Could it be because their customer service is top notch and everybody knows it? Could it be that they've been at the top of the sub market for over a decade? Could it be that they make some of the best subs for $$ spent? There is always going to be the odd bad experience through shipping. Getting bitter over it only affects you. You've changed your story now and added new parts, so it's hard what to think.
And now everyone that reads this will know that the instant internet experts that post on audiogon especially those with no experience are the ones that have the secret knowledge that all humanity lacks, why consult an attorney or question anything at all just ask them maybe they will reveal their secrets but only to some, maybe they are the same angels that taught Noah the secrets of Kabbalah , if you are special enough they will show you why there knowledge trumps real world experience, for a small fee of $99.00
"You can't fix stupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. Stupid is forever."
you said it , that and people not paying attention to what is actually being said, and not aware of their own ignorance espcecially when it comes to actual law, that is in their favor. But sheeple whatcha gonna do
again this is for people who have actually dealt with them and had this happen, the actual facts of the matter are that you do have recourse for getting your money back, that is really it.
For those that agree with their policy, start another thread. The fact is I got my money back not because they accomodated me but because in this state I have legal recourse and that goes for the damaged part.
If you are reading this don't ever let anybody tell you you have to accept goods that don't work and then pay a few that is ridiculous.
The policy is written to prevent CC chargebacks, of which I am sure they used to lose all the time. The legal recourse is a whole other matter.
@Martykl- your mistake was not heeding the advice of the great sage Ron White (and I quote): "You can't fix stupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. Stupid is forever."
Again you are missing the point I got a defective item that did not work,
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out , it was not just damaged that is a whole other word and has a separate meaning since you seem to be so good at looking things up maybe go old school and use a dictionary .
The transaction would be governed by TN law,not CA law but no law federal , state or otherwise will back up a defective item which this was. It may have been damaged as well but it was also defective and should work but did not.
Off course they took the parts out and resold it are they just going to throw it away. It really doesn't matter what you think you aren't an attorney focusing on consumer law you are just some blow hard on the internet that thinks the tard net is the only valid place for information.
There is value in real education especially law everyone thinks that they are a lawyer but it takes a graduate from an accredited law school who has passed the bar and litigated to get what I am saying not someone with dubious skills at putting forth an argument of which they no nothing about.
This is for people that have been ripped off and have fallen for the word damaged, if they could put defective why don't they?
Their website still says damaged not damaged and defective. It was damaged but also defective that's the way it is.
You can not understand this all you want.
But you can't operate this way you don't get all your money and my money to etc. Meaning HSU.
And if you are an attorney which I doubt quote the statute in Lexus nexus for the state of Tn and defective merchandise as well as any federal statute, it isn't there. By her own admission the item would not work and was not my fault that it didn't. End of story
Not really no one gets off the hook for selling defective merchandise, then getting reimbursed for the unit and shipping and reusing the unit and making more money.
Maybe you intended to communicate something different, but that's not how your OP reads. Per that post (at least as I read it), HSU shipped a unit and FEDEX damaged it. So far, FEDEX has botched their job, but HSU has done nothing wrong. (Your objection to product quality noted, but not relevant here - HSU never guaranteed that you'd like the product quality and even specified a policy that governs what happens if you don't.)
HSU was reimbursed by Fedex when you refused it/returned it to them. Again, HSU pays FEDEX for a service (including damage insurance), they're simply settling per their agreement. Nothing wrong by HSU, yet.
HSU offers you a replacement (but not a refund) per their policy. Still HSU has done nothing wrong here, per your agreement with them. You may wish they had done more for you, but so far everyone (except you) has been respecting the terms of the agreements they've entered into. Which brings us back to:
Not really no one gets off the hook for selling defective merchandise, then getting reimbursed for the unit and shipping and reusing the unit and making more money
What makes you think HSU "re-used" the damaged unit? Unless I'm misreading your OP, you never accepted a replacement, so it's not like HSU sent you a patched up re-pack as a replacement. How do you know what HSU did with the unit that FEDEX damaged?
Unless there's something you haven't shared here, the only fair assumption is that HSU discarded the damaged unit (assuming that Fedex even returned it to them) or repaired it and sold it as B stock. Do you have any evidence of some other behavior by HSU? If you don't, do you understand why people read your complaints re: HSU's behavior as unreasonable?
BTW, if I've misrepresented what you wrote in any way, it's not by design. I believe that it's a straight read of your OP, tho please clarify if I've gotten it wrong.
As to having the right to a refund because you received defective merchandise:
My understanding is that neither Federal law nor California state law automatically guarantees a buyer the right to a refund when they receive defective merchandise. Indeed, in many cases, items may be sold "as is", where no refund OR replacement is required, although there's a bunch of law requiring that this policy be "clearly made known in plain language" to the buyer. So, the terms of a seller's agreement with a buyer may absolutely allow for replacement (rather than refund) in the event that a unit is received defective. Let's also not forget that you described receiving a unit DAMAGED in shipping (that's not the same as "defective"). Although that distinction may not be relevant regarding your rights to a refund, it does make it even harder to reasonably "blame" HSU for not stepping up "beyond the call of duty" (the letter of their agreement with you).
In short, it's hard to understand why you think you had a right to a refund here. It's easy to understand why you want one and why you might hope that HSU steps up for you, but it's hard to see why you'd accuse HSU of "fraud" and other misbehavior when they didn't.
Again, HSU accommodated you - possibly because they didn't want the hassle of dealing with you and any advocacy offices that you involved in the process. I'm glad it worked out for you, but you haven't made a case against HSU, yet - as least as far as I can see. I don't think anyone is being antagonistic towards you here, it's just that your OP didn't support the accusations you made vs HSU, and the new post doesn't either.
Maybe I am not being clear so other members can understand.
"You bought a subwoofer from HSU. YOU DECIDED THAT YOU DIDN"T WANT IT (when you refused the offer of a replacement subwoofer). You returned it. Therefore, you were subject to the return policy. "
No I did not, I received a defective unit that did not work, that word is very important here and it is why I got my money back,
I had no power in the matter and the rep Candy said I couldn't use it .
All the other Chatter is really irrelevant, I did not use it for a while and opt not keep it.
And suing them is velly velly easy, you simply find their agents of service and sue them through the Secretary of State.
When they got that complaint they capitulated, within hours.
If she would not have been such an a@@@@@e I would not have initiated this thread.
The FTC also saw it my way, remember keds it was defective.
Not really no one gets off the hook for selling defective merchandise, then getting reimbursed for the unit and shipping and reusing the unit and making more money.
But you can't cure stupid, that is for certain
I just dealt with emotiva, the unit they sent out did not work, it was no hassle sending it back and they returned the item and paid for the shipping no question asked whatsoever , they called it defective.
Their policy is a fair one, many companies do the same with 30 day returns. The person that doesn't avail themselves of the company policy on returns and then gets upset only looks like a crank in the end.
A few years ago, I purchased 5 HSU speakers (not sub)to replace my old Paradigm Studio speakers for HT. I knew what I was getting into with returns if I didn't want them. Well the HSU's arrived in perfect condition but I found I preferred the sound of my old speakers, (found out old can still sound better than new). I sent the HSU's back with no problem. I did have to pay the fee to do so but at least I didn't have to sell them on my own and loose even more.
Well I'm also getting the same impression here, that there is likely more to this story! (Usually always two sides anyway, to get to an accurate picture!??) Regardless, bottom line, it takes ENERGY and time to do anything... Including lawsuits! (You work it out, dog!) Of course I don't know what they did or didn't do, but whatever, it's a negotiation, at very least. And if not dealing with HSU is your choice, then that's possibility them going in the wrong direction...then its up to them to maintainance their own issues as a company, and try n keep disgruntled customers to a minimum... It's all they u can do, really. Go the extra mile???! ..If not, these small struggling companies simply collapse, eventually. Seen it all too many before in this tough business! If it's me, n the story is close to being true, i personally just do what is minimum, n just stop doing business. A few hundred bucks??! I don't waste my time. I personally only had good experiences w em in past w one purchase. Product was good, n no issues. Lol!.I gotta laugh at the insurance claim ,however! Sounds like they padded the bill n worked the angle! $$$SSNNNAATCH!!! 😀😀
yes I bought a sub from hsu, after reading glowing reviews, my mistake, the sub was not as the reviews indicated, so I sent the sub back, I had to pay for shipping both ways, there are company's like svs that do cover shipping, bottom line is take reviews with a grain of salt, and check shipping charges and return policy's before buying.
I have no relationship with HSU (good or bad) so I'm glad it worked out for you in the end. However, if I understand you story correctly, you're simply wrong here.
It was your responsibility to know the terms of HSU's product offering as stated on their website and re-printed here by Mofi before you bought the sub from them. You signed up for the deal on those terms (and those terms aren't remotely close to fraud). In short:
You bought a subwoofer from HSU. YOU DECIDED THAT YOU DIDN"T WANT IT (when you refused the offer of a replacement subwoofer). You returned it. Therefore, you were subject to the return policy.
Outside of a delivery delay due to a third party (Fedex), refusing a replacement sub is no different than receiving a new sub from HSU and deciding to return it.
I understand that you didn't think the subwoofer was of acceptable quality, but HSU has a policy for that circumstance. You seem to be upset that you can't use Fedex's misbehavior to crawl out from under that deal. I think many folks would agree that this is not a reasonable expectation on your part.
As to HSU getting paid by Fedex - that's between HSU and Fedex and has zero to do with your deal with HSU. Of course, you point out that Fedex's settlement payment would allow HSU to accommodate you without losing money - which you ultimately convinced them to do.
But remember, HSU ultimately accommodated you with a refund when they had no obligation to do so. You should understand that this says a lot (all of it good) about HSU.
Again everyone is different and if you want to laud them then this is not the thread for you. I did not see any puncture damage etc until I got it home.
It didn't not work, I opted for a full refund,. They filed a claim with FedEx and got all their money back as well as the actual unit if which they will resell the parts. You can't make someone pay for a defective product, no matter what you say or write.
I am sure they are nice if you are buying from them, I mean who isnT, I got my money back.
I'm still not quite sure what went on. The OP I'm guessing(?) gave them his credit card info, the item was shipped and showed up damaged? Too much info missing already, like whether the damage was visible and on the cardboard container it came in or just on the inside product.
Because right there that would be mistake number one. If you see outward damage and it's so bad the product is damaged, it's quite possible it's easy to see, so you do not accept delivery of the item or at least do not open it up, return it to the shipping company or get instructions from HSU. But again, no facts in the rambling post.
Item 2 is how is it that they are trying to get $99 from the OP. They have his credit card and have charged him I'm guessing(again). They've got the money, don't need to try to get it. They'd return an amount less the 99 as their policy states and that would be that. But somehow they are trying to extract 99 from the OP? I'm not following the money situation.
Either way, its an awful experience to order something and have it show up damaged. Dealing with such a situation politely and respectfully will get one a lot further than bitching and abusing HSU reps. And this thread will do nothing to hurt their reputation, you're wasting you time. They've been at the game for over 20 years and have a track record that is among the best in the internet direct business, in fact I think they are one of the pioneers of it.
I've got a VTF-15H that they shipped to me and the experience was great, and the sub pounds my theater like crazy. At least the OP ended up with a good ending.
Just to add my experience, I have a Hsu sub (VTF-1), and in numerous dealings with the company, I have always found them extremely friendly, flexible, very generous with their time and tech support, and nothing short of exemplary. I love my modest sub that plays very well with my Naim XS2 int. amp and Marantz AVR, and they patiently spent a lot of time with me on the phone getting the HT bypass setup organized - past the point of just integrating their sub. Just my $.02.
Apparently they understand perfectly what I was conveying. To take a consumers money and then get a full pay out and then some for the unit leaving the consumer with absolutely nothing is suspect.
A companies written policy isn't on par with the magna carta. I will check back when the complaints to the risk management at fedex , attorney general and the federal trade commission are answered.
So far consumers that have had good service have posted in this thread to those that have sent it back and lost their money, you are do a refund don't let anyone talk you out of it. This practice by HSU Research is dishonest.
well I got my money coming to me, You can laud them all you want, and there is no contradiction. I didn't use it and they are dishonest, end of my story , if yours is different then that is a good thing. No business is perfect.
I don't blame you for being skeptical about the internet flame thing its one voice and we don't know each other. I have been warned on other forums about various items, that is really all I am doing.
you can search this handle all over the internet, this isn't typical behavior for me. But I am very conscious of when something is up.
05-06-14: Dopogue I've had Hsu subs and sub amps and never a problem or issue. Topflight customer service any time I needed it.
I honestly thought it would not be that big of a deal and thought of maybe trying the 15 but the person I got a hold of was anything but, like I said just my experience. For the life of me don't know how they got the actual retail price of the item, the actual $659.00 plus shipping both ways.
The 99.00 actually pays shipping both ways and then some they get hugely discounted rates which is certainly their right. It makes sense that if you send it back that they recoup the loss. There won't be any insurance claim in that case.
If anything at least others reading this can make their own decision and the policy is boldly out there.
HSU paid for shipping insurance; therefore, they are entitled to receive restitution for goods damaged. HSU is also entitled to receive a shipping charge refund from Fedex since they did not fulfill their contracted obligation.
Thats fine but they don't have a right to my money at all in this case, that isn't ethical and they are playing both ends against the middle. A unit that cant be used is defective they can play semantics all they want. viablex1
i've had good experience with hsu as well, which doesn't mean definitively that they acted correctly in this particular case. however, i'm generally skeptical of people using these forums to air private grievances, esp. those who haven't posted before. to me, it tends to present only one side of a saga and to malign vendors/manufacturers who may or may not be guilty as charged.
Your posts are full of contradictions. The sub was not defective it was damaged in transit. You elected not to receive a replacement, therefore, under their 30 day satisfaction guarantee HSU is under no obligation to refund shipping charges.
HSU paid for shipping insurance; therefore, they are entitled to receive restitution for goods damaged. HSU is also entitled to receive a shipping charge refund from Fedex since they did not fulfill their contracted obligation.
HSU has an excellent internet reputation for value and customer service.
I'm also wondering what else is behind this story. I have bought three Hsu subs and there are not cheaply made. They have performed flawlessly for several years. Their customer service has been great and I have even spoken with Dr. Hsu's son on the phone for advice. I highly recommend the company and the products. And, no, I have no affiliation whatsoever with the company.
well what I got was defective, plain and simple and I was told it was defective by the person at HSU and they opted to take it back.
They got their money back completely, I never ever got to use the subwoofer it was delivered as defective , under the fair credit reporting act its on them to deliver goods perfectly which did not happen, I sent them photos and she said I couldn;t use it and they would take it back. It was such a POS that I wanted to be done with it. They didn't pay $99.00 on the insurance and yes it does include me , not a note and they have everything and then some and are still trying to get $99.00 from me. Its not damaged because they offered a discount , when I told them the nature of the defect they said I couldn't use it. I got it friday and shipped it back the following monday , was never used , I don't owe them a dime. Had I used it then yes I am on the hook, it has to work damaged does not mean defective. That is all I am saying I sure as hell didn't order it to see if I could beat what they think is an air tight policy.
I am just warning others they are a small minded and dishonest company. that's my experience.
It isn't the end of the world but man that's bull. So I ordered a rythmik an E15 and it sounds pretty good and is pretty solid construction.
I have been on here a while bought a lot of stuff etc, even had a preamp that buzzed I just sent it back no big deal, I paid $40.00 bucks for shipping but it worked I just didn't like it. No harm no foul no negative feeedback but this gets me because they keep saying it falls under the damage policy and is not defective, hard to believe FEDex would completely pay for it if it was salvageable.
I appreciate the comments and you know I have probably lost this but others don't have to.
That is why sometimes it is a good idea to just check it out in person.
Roxy...I think the $99 is the restocking fee not the price of the unit in question.
Here is the policy straight from the HSU website:
30-day Satisfaction Guarantee.
If you are not completely satisfied with your purchase, you have 30 days to begin the return process. We will refund the complete purchase price, minus any shipping charges, after our technicians review the return. The refund happens under four conditions: (1) all items must be in "like new" condition, (2) there must not be any missing items, (3) the product needs to be in transit back to Hsu Research within 30 of delivery (4) you must call us to receive an RMA number. Failure to comply with all of these conditions may result in either the item being refused or you may be charged a 15% restocking fee. Note that, in the event that an item is damaged during shipping and returned for refund without replacement, then the same terms as stated above will apply, and we will not refund any shipping charges.
Please note this sentence: "Note that, in the event that an item is damaged during shipping and returned for refund without replacement, then the same terms as stated above will apply, and we will not refund any shipping charges."
Seems pretty clear to me. That's what the OP did. I do however think that since FEDEX paid the claim HSU should wave the restock fee, but that's just me...
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