If I could afford, I’d purchase 100% Oswald Mills Audio gear

Thanks for your candor and responding, Mike.

Interesting perhaps for Mike Lavigne, I just read M Fremer’s review of the Lino C phono stage, which was done using the Krebs K3 and the Schroeder K3 tonearm as source components.He makes a specific point that “sustain” was for him a remarkable virtue of that combination regardless of cartridge. So we have one opinion that may be in conflict with Mike’s privately offered sample.

Perhaps, but why over years have you been so persistently antagonistic toward Richard? In any case, it’s my fault, not Richard’s that I erroneously credited him with a degree. 

Richard Krebs designed and probably built at least the first prototypes of K3. Richard is an honorable gentleman and a qualified engineer. The K3 evidently went where Richard’s brain took it. None of us know what we don’t know about it, so perhaps silence is golden when it comes to a critique. Even Mike has only third person knowledge. I am no big fan of the OMA proprietor either, but that’s no reason to denigrate the K3.

best-groove, For what it's worth, I referenced MF's review in my response to Mijostyn only with respect to MF's description of the construction and how dampening (or damping, if you prefer) was achieved.  I made no mention of MF's opinions about anything.
Mike, Thanks for your candid response.  I am totally unfamiliar with the CS Port turntable, except to know it is very expensive.  I will do some research on it, only to satisfy my curiosity; I am not a candidate to buy one.  Each of us, or at least many of us, have in mind a particular quality that catches our attention immediately, with any new turntable as with any of several other choices we make in life.  If the thing lacks that triggering emotional quality, what comes next in terms of a general impression is usually not enough.  For me, with turntables, I want to hear a "big", room-filling sound.  I have the general impression that turntables with conventional plinth designs that afford a broad rectangular flat deck surrounding the platter are less likely to sound big than are turntables where the plinth is circular with borders that extend not very far from the circumference of the platter.  I think that may mean that the conventional rectangular plinths reflect spurious sonic energy generated as the stylus traces the groove, and that this may have a deleterious effect on the apparent expansiveness of the sound stage.  On the other hand, the word "sustain" means very little to me; I ascribe that quality to the cartridge/tonearm and the LP, I guess.  Never thought much about it in detail.

Mike, have you heard the K3 or are you extrapolating from your vast prior experience as to its sonic character? Also, would you care to mention which of your turntables wins the sustain trophy? I’m guessing it’s a belt drive type.

Mijo, You wrote, in reference to the K3: "It's three failings are it's lack of isolation, a dust cover and vacuum clamping."
I think your orthodoxy is getting in the way of your logic.  If you read MF's review, you will see that instead of "isolation", which to you means springs, air, or the Minus K, the K3 uses high mass plus internal fluid dampening, in the plinth, motor, and in the platter.  So it is inaccurate to say the K3 does not give a thought to the dissipation of spurious energy, which after all is the purpose of a "suspension".  Further, how do we know it does not have a dust cover?  I have never known MF to display photos of TTs with their dust covers in place.  The only dust cover I find handy is one that protects the platter from dust when the TT is not in use.  They're easy to fabricate, but of course that would be beneath the dignity of anyone who can own the K3.  Further, further, vacuum clamping does not come without its sonic costs. (It certainly added an audible coloration with my SOTA Star Sapphire III, albeit that was 25 years ago, so I will assume SOTA does better with vacuum clamping these days.)  Note also that not every megabuck turntable is wedded to vacuum clamping.  So it is an arguable benefit or detriment, depending upon implementation.  There's a couple of vacuum mat accessories on the market these days, so anyone can have that feature if it is wanted. (I think OMA would go into shock if any buyer added a $1000 or so vacuum mat to that mammoth damped platter.)  My major point is that neither you nor I nor anyone else who has dripped vitriole on the K3 has ever heard it.  Surely you would not dismiss such a product out of hand just because it does not fulfill your 3 favorite fetishes. We dismiss it because it costs $360,000.

The K3 has essentially the same form factor as any of Krebs’ developmental prototypes. I’ve seen photos along the way. Richard worked on this project for years before he joined forces with OMA. In designing and adapting the cast iron plinth that dominates the exterior appearance, it seems that physics and cosmetics came together to give the K3 an Art Deco look. It’s not bling; it’s form following function. I like it.

Huh?

Communism was a failure, and now capitalism has run amok. If this makes you angry, then spend some time and energy in the political arena to promote a more level playing field. Megabuck turntables are only a byproduct of societal problems and not worth the angst.

Actually, Mijo, the Krebs might be as good as or better than any turntable in the world regardless of price. The only reasonable  objections are to the  looks, for some, or to the price asked. So don’t buy one. 

Chakster, Either you do not understand English as well as you write in English (which is very well) or you just don't want to "hear" anyone else's opinion.  I said first of all that I know nothing about OMA loudspeakers.  However, in this case, it is well and good that an OMA speaker received an award from AS; that information does not say anything about who conceived, designed, and built them.  And I did also say that OMA sell high quality products.  OMA is a successful business for that reason, and I wish them continued success in this difficult market for high end audio.


In the case of the above quote about a putative cutting lathe motor, note use of the words "our motor".  Richard Krebs' group developed that motor.  It's a small thing, and I guess I am making too big a deal of it, but there is a history.....

I was not aware that the Bucknell University physics and chemistry departments gave out annual awards to audio companies.  That is surprising and remarkable.

I’d say that the Krebs TT represents a lot of “plain, honest, down to earth good engineering “ and very little bling. That’s why some others find it ugly. The problem is cost.

A few years ago, they were selling the Saskia turntable, made of slate and idler-driven.  The Saskia was conceived of and built by Win Tinnon of North Carolina, based on his love for the Lenco; no part of it was made by OMA.  Win built every one of them from the ground up. Now they are selling this new direct drive.  It is the product of years of work by Richard Krebs, who lives in New Zealand, not Pennsylvania.  Richard is collaborating with OMA to market his product in the US, although in this case it seems OMA has a lot to do with the cast iron plinth.  OMA themselves admit that the tonearm is built by Frank Schroeder, who to my knowledge lives in Germany.  OMA was not the first to think of shedding the chassis of the SP10 Mk3 and mounting the motor/platter assembly directly into a high mass plinth.  For this, credit Steve Dobbins and/or some others who came before Steve.  OMA took the idea and executed it in a slate slab.  For that matter, OMA were not the first to use slate for a plinth, although they like to take credit for that idea too. The concept goes back to internet conversations that took place in the early 1990s.  I am not saying there is anything wrong with any of this; Richard Krebs, Win Tinnon, and Frank Schroeder cast their lots with OMA of their own free will.  OMA market high quality products, and buyers pay a premium for what they sell. I am only arguing about careless use of the word "genius". 

I don’t know anything at all about their speakers, but most of the other products they sell are not “made“ by OMA. They are made (designed and built) by other entrepreneurs and sold through OMA. Usually OMA adds some exterior design elements to identify the product as their own. There is nothing wrong with doing this, but please don’t anoint Jonathan Weiss as a genius anytime soon.He may be a genius at marketing.

This is Richard Krebs’ turntable wearing a new dress. The new dress is made of cast iron. Powerful motors require powerful magnets. I am curious what happens to the magnetic field in this situation. I hope Richard and Frank Schroeder are getting a piece of this action. I actually like the looks, but OMA, not so much. Glad there is “nano”-something here; otherwise it wouldn’t be worth the retail cost.