Funny. I looked for a good while and each time I found one, it would be gone by the time I tried to buy it. Maybe you remember that I settled on the Aesthetix Calypso Signature. Got it home, used it for a couple listening sessions. It did a nice job for listening to CD's. I'd never had tubes in line for CD listening before so that was kind of nice. I did not really get to appreciate it so much for vinyl as I was having problems with a weak tube in my Cary phono preamp as well as trouble with the turntable I was using. In the meantime, the Calypso started having a problem. LED's were dim and almost no sound. I found a loose RCA cap on the back, maybe all there was to it but I talked with TMR about it and they suggested to just send it back to them for repair and evaluation. It made me kind of nervous about it and I decided to just trade it for a Linn LP12 that they had. Waiting for that to arrive. Only took me 50 years to get one. I hope I like it.
At the same time, I found a Cary SLP 98P F1 in Jaguar red. It has several upgrades, including Lundahl phono input for LOMC, Hexfred recifiers, is direct coupled (supposed to help a lot) and has oil filled caps I don't know what all that means but I know that the upgrades are considered to be important. It also has a new compliment of tubes with only a few hours on them, not burned in yet. I may be looking to vintage tubes as these are all new types and I probably won't like them.
|
@billpete what tubes did your 98P F1 come with?
Hey, before spending more on tubes, it’s worth opening the bottom, taking a photo of which oil filled caps are in it. Are they gold color Jensen or Jupiter, or something else. The sound changes notably with different coupling caps, or different 6SN7s, and different interconnects can impact the sound. Depending which way you want to go, softer/smoother, or more detailed and more open, we can help steer you on cap changes to fwiw. A local tech can swap caps pretty easy later if necessary.
Once we know the tubes and caps, you can also try different 6SN7s up front which can go in either direction as well.
|
I believe I was told Jensen caps. The tubes are EH 6SN7, I think 2 are gold and two are not. AU's and AX's are JJ. Probably not what I want to hear. I have quite a lot of vintage AU's and AX's and variants that will be better than JJ's. I've never had or heard JJ's but what I read isn't so great. This is only the phono side I think so might not really affect me too much since I use the Cary PH301 phono pre. I just thought it was a fair option to have the P version, especially with the Lundahl MC upgrade. If the PH301 ever goes down or is off for repair, I still have a phono section that I might care to use. I have others in other preamps, they just don't do what I want.
As to a local tech, probably nothing within less than 3 hours of where I live. My son does some of this but he is amateur at best. I have done a little too but this stuff makes me a bit nervous. We'll see what I find when I get the preamp. Thanks for all.
I don't know how good the EH tubes are. Never had or heard any of them either. I'm sure I'll be looking for vintage tubes at some point.
|
@billpete , I remembered a thread where someone was sort of considering/looking for a SLP-98, but I couldn’t remember the thread or who the OP was, so when I got the preowned notification email from Cary Direct this morning, I figured I’d pass the word.
Anyway, it sure reads as if you have got yourself a nice one. Although it wouldn’t be a factor for me, that Jaguar Red is pretty. A couple of things I was not aware of until I did a look on Cary’s site was that it uses 12au7s and ax7s for the phono stage, and I didn’t know that it used solid state rectification until you mentioned the Hexfreds. Btw, I have read that the Hexfreds make a big difference.
As far as the JJs and the EHs go: I have heard mixed about both of them. On the JJs, probably more bad than good. But I do have a tube guru friend on another site who swears by the JJ 12ax7s. I owe him more than one favor, so I had some Mullard 12ax7s I took out of an old Bogen receiver and I offered to send them to him as I have nothing that uses them. He emailed me back, thanks, but for his money the JJ12ax7s were as good as anything out there. I’ll dig through my emails back & forth from him and see if I can find that one and I’ll paste that content to this thread.
As far as the EHs, my SLP-05 came with EH 6sn7s, and I actually decided to try JJs in the phase splitter sockets. I cannot honestly say that I can hear a big difference in either direction. Vintage 6sn7s in those sockets are on my list. As far as the two balanced input sockets, the tube guru who I referred to a paragraph or so ago gave me a plethora of pairs of vintage 6sn7s (he no longer has equipment that uses those tubes, but when he did I believe he may have been a tad OCD) and I have found that some of those vintage pairs for the two balanced inputs transform the sound of that preamp. So, as I typed, a vintage quad is on my list. If the phase splitters had the sonic effect that the balanced inputs have . . .that should be another "wow!" moment.
Anyway, good luck with that new to you preamp; I am sure you are going to enjoy it, and feel free to keep us updated.
|
Thanks for all.
Seems to me that Brent Jessee speaks well of the EH and JJ's but I may be mixing him up with another tube site that I go to. Most who sell something will have at least "something nice" to say. Hard to sell things if you say, "hey, these are crap but maybe you'll like them". :)
|
Seems to me that Brent Jessee speaks well of the EH and JJ's but I may be mixing him up with another tube site that I go to.
Hmmm . . . I think that you may be mixing him up with another site.
|
Tube depot maybe but I think Brent Jessee does sell some EH and JJ tubes. Any modern tubes I've ever had looked to be very poorly made. I haven't had a great deal of them but Mazda, some Chinese and Yugoslavian (EI?) tubes and none were what I'd call good. All that said, I have not had EH or JJ so I will be hearing them one of these days. Seems to me I read good things about Gold Lion and I think they are fairly new, or even still current, not sure.
So, having Hexfred rectifiers, does that make the SLP 98 a hybrid?
|
So, having Hexfred rectifiers, does that make the SLP 98 a hybrid?
@billpete , I make no claims to be an electronics or tube guru, but I’d say that a piece of tube gear that utilizes solid state rectification is NOT a hybrid. From what I have seen, there is an awful lot of tubed units using solid state rectification (perhaps the majority?) and I am just about sure that those are NOT considered hybrids. I had always thought of hybrids more in line with amps, and those were amps using input tubes but solid state output. But I may be mistaken--I often am.
|
A friend of mine sent me a Moscode preamp and it is called a hybrid. He sent it to me to see if it needed tubes as he has no way to test and it had stopped working for him. It had a bad mute switch that just needed cleaning. I was not overly impressed by it but I've heard worse. For whatever reason, it is called a hybrid preamp. Some people speak highly of them. Left me kinda "meh".
Thanks for your explanation. You're well ahead of me on this stuff. I am an avid listener and I try when I can to understand some of the basics of electronics and that's about it. I have no intention of trying to build them. I may replace a part here and there but my skills in that area are very limited. When people start talking electronics to me, I feel like I'm back in kindergarten. I do pay attention though so don't give up on me. Thanks again,
|
A friend of mine sent me a Moscode preamp and it is called a hybrid.
Well, as I typed, I may have been mistaken about that part.
You’re well ahead of me on this stuff.
I wouldn’t say that at all, @billpete .
When people start talking electronics to me, I feel like I’m back in kindergarten.
Me too. I can solder and de-solder, but I am really bereft when it comes to understanding the topology of the circuit that I am working on.
|
Yup, I just bought a desoldering rig in the last year. No idea what took me so long. Very handy tool. Knowing almost zero about all of these components is what makes me nervous. With no experts anywhere near where I live, I have to send things away to be worked on and I really don't know who to send to. There is a semi-retired guy in FL who sells "rebuilds" on ebay. I know one in TX but he is booked for 18 months at a time. I'm getting way too old to wait that long. I did send a VPI bearing to VAS. Still waiting for a verdict. He is likely to get some re-tip jobs from me as well.
If it's a simple de-solder and solder in a new piece, I'll likely take a stab at it. Between my son and myself, we can take care of the simple stuff. I talk to the guys over at DIY audio too and they are helpful, just speak a different language than I do. EEese.
|
@billpete I believe I was told Jensen caps. The tubes are EH 6SN7, I think 2 are gold and two are not. AU’s and AX’s are JJ. Probably not what I want to hear. I have quite a lot of vintage AU’s and AX’s and variants that will be better than JJ’s.
Most of us put the original EH 6SN7s back in their boxes and stored with the factory preamp box to be used for future resale of the preamp. My least favorite tubes compared to others in the 98. As for small 12Au.. tubes, it sounds like you already know what to do there. I keep and run an all-new reissue set of tubes, and another vintage set I roll in rarely.
To start, I’d recommend keeping the Jensen caps installed for a while, you might like then with th right tubes in the unit. And getting ready to acquire and try a great quad of 6SN7s paired with a few of your best 12A... small tubes first. If that preamp has been sitting a while, give it at least a week to settle back in.
Also, trying a good pair of pure copper interconnects, and silver over copper interconnects can bring out a different presentation in that preamp. Worth trying a few different pairs/types for source/input and output to your amp(s). Keep us posted how it goes in a few weeks.
|
decooney
Thanks. What you're saying is pretty much what I gather from all the study that I've put into this preamp. At least this one comes with the upgrades and is further upgraded than some with the Lundahl step up. I could be mistaken on the Jensen caps and may have read it on another or in talking to Cary. I can't find it in my notes on this one so not sure. I'll open it up when I get it to see what is inside.
This one has been sitting on the shelf for the better part of 5 years. I am buying it from the 2nd owner who bought it to pair with a Cary tube amp 12 something or other. I pay little attention to amps so don't remember the model #s. His Cary amp started to act up and needed repair so he barely got to try the SLP 98. I think he said he only put a few hours on it and probably wasn't overly impressed since it had stock tubes that only had 10 hours on them. I remember that feeling with my PH301. I could tell that it was special but Chinese and Yugo tubes had to go. Virtually every vintage tube was better than either the Chinese, or Yugo EI's.
|
@billpete ...2nd owner who bought it to pair with a Cary tube amp 12 something or other.
Probably either the Cary V12, 12i, 12R amp, and I owned one for many years along with a few colleagues. Without a good local tech or Cary agreeing to service the 87lb monster, this happens. Many paired the SLP-98 pre with it or still do.
Maybe you could just plug it in and let it play on/off for a week solid, and make sure all is okay and nothing shorts out. Let those EH tubes burn, some say they are "okay" with more time, yet I will say I tried mine for a while and did not enjoy them.
For an entirely different thread, or you can search old threads - many of us have posts out there about our batches of vintage and/or new re-issue 6SN7s. PSVANE direct (mfg) just sent me some replacement CV-181TIIs I like quite a bit, and I still have a few quads of TJ Full Music 6SN7s I run in my SLP-98L now. Mix them too.
Sounds as good or better than many of my vintage ones. The TJFMs (now sold to PSVANE Co.) have lasted well last 2 years, and time will tell on the new PSVANEs. I helped a friend with his integrated amp and we recently installed the new Horizon series in his. A little more detailed than former versions. With these, I keep my vintage 6SN7s mothballed and stored away and break them out once a year fwiw.
|
Yes, V12. He said it was a heavy monster.
Will post when I get the SLP, should be next week.
|
The SLP-98P F1 is a very nice little preamp. The jaguar red is especially beautiful I always thought. My favorite color on the Cary equipment.
Cary Audio only used the Jensen oil caps as an upgrade (early oils were Audio 1’s), otherwise it was polypropylene. Eventually moving into the Mondorf’s. The Jensen oil caps are a bit more laid-back and tame compared to polypropylene’s, which are typically more detailed and airy. It’s all going to depend on the rest of your system and your taste. Also polypropylene caps last longer than oil. Oil caps last about 5 to 10 years and may start leaking or dry up. The leaky issues are more on amps with higher voltages than on the preamps though.
Hexfred’s I thought we’re great upgrades on these. Upgrading from the standard diodes to the hexfred’s you’ll notice more detail and faster bass. The SLP-98 has always had solid state rectification, which does not mean it’s a hybrid. Hybrid has to do with the actual analog circuit not the power supply.
The SLP-98P F1 can still be taken a lot further in sound quality with some power supply upgrades and even better coupling caps. Installing some large10uf polypropylene bypass caps on all the PS electrolytic caps makes a big improvement. We always used Solan as they are a good size and fit well. The F1 should have Kimber Kable in it but maybe not. Upgrading to a good quality wire makes a big difference inside. The only thing I didn’t like about the Kimber was it’s not shielded and consequently, picked up information from the other inputs wiring if a source was still on. Now days, I’d look at some good shielded OCC wire.
As for tubes, I always thought JJ was crap. Sorry but just my opinion. EH are Russian and tend to be a more on the hard/bittle bright side for my taste. Old 6SN7 Sylvania’s are fantastic for detail or RCA for more smooth body. Also Tungsol, etc.
There’s not a ton of room inside of the SLP 98P F1. It’s pretty jammed in there already so there’s not a lot of room for huge upgrades. Adding the Solen 10uf Polypropylene’s caps will help a lot. 4 in the preamp and a couple in the PS. And the PS I used to always at a couple of higher quality .22uf propylenes to bypass the Solen’s. Really makes the power supply cleaner and improves not only imaging and that blacker background but bass improves
Somebody else mentioned they had an SLP 05. It’s super important to match the gain of the tubes to get correct channel balance. I used to do this on the bench with a scope and meter but it can be done with just a meter and a signal generator or CD player with a 1K sign wave CD into the single-ended inputs. There are trim pots inside the unit, which has to be opened up and turned upside down to get to the pots that are mounted on the pc board. Those trim pots adjust the volume to the rear negative phase tubes. First make sure the two positive phase tubes are putting out equal gain by measuring the output with the volume control turned all the way up. Once they’re equal then you adjust the negative phase trim pot to match the volume of the positive phase tube that’s in the front tube socket. You do this for the left side and then the right side until you have all four phases of equal output voltage. DONT TOUCH THESE TUBES NOW. LEAVE THEM IN PLACE. Now you move on to the balanced inputs. if your DAC has balanced outputs it’s perfect. You can play the 1K sign wave into the balanced inputs and swap tubes until you have equal output voltage on all four phases. Yes there’s a bit to this. And this is why most people send it in to have it done but you can’t do that every time you want to swap tubes around so hopefully this will help somebody. When ordering tubes it’s important to ask for tubes that are matched for output/gain. This will make everything much easier. Especially for those two front line level positive phase tubes and the two balanced input tubes. BUT every time you change the line stage tubes (not the balanced input tubes) the negative phase trim pots will always need to be adjusted to match the positive phase tubes, otherwise the negative phase may be louder than the positive phase or way too quiet and not canceling out noise correctly and the volume into your balanced amplifier won’t have the same channel balance.
|
Thanks guys. You are an absolute wealth of information. I look forward to having the SLP in my system and more discussion to follow. Many thanks.
|
