I see the issue with ABX blind testing


I’ve followed many of the cable discussions over the years with interest. I’ve never tested cables & compared the sound other than when I bought an LFD amp & the vendor said that it was best paired with the LFD power cord. That was $450 US and he offered to ship it to me to try & if I didn’t notice a difference I could send it back. I got it, tried it & sent it back. To me there was no difference at all.

Fast forward to today & I have a new system & the issue of cables arises again. I have Mogami cables made by Take Five Audio in Canada. The speaker wire are Mogami 3104, XLRs are Mogami 2549 & the power cords are Powerline 10 with Furutech connectors. All cables are quite well made and I’ve been using them for about 5 years. The vendor that sold me the new equipment insisted that I needed "better" cables and sent along some Transparent Super speaker & XLR cables to try. If I like them I can pay for them.

In every discussion about cables the question is always asked, why don’t you do an ABX blind test? So I was figuring out how I’d do that. I know the reason few do it. It’s not easy to accomplish. I have no problem having a friend come over & swap cables without telling me what he’s done, whether he swapped any at all etc. But from what I can see the benefit, if there is one, will be most noticeable system wide. In other words, just switching one power cable the way I did before won’t be sufficient for you to tell a difference... again, assuming there is one. So I need my friend to swap power cables for my amp/preamp & streamer, XLR cables from my streamer to my preamp, preamp to amp & speakers cables. That takes a good 5-10 minutes. There is no way my brain is retaining what I previously heard and then comparing it to what I currently hear.

The alternative is to connect all of the new cables, listen for a week or so & then switch back & see if you feel you’re missing anything. But then your brain takes over & your biases will have as much impact as any potential change in sound quality.

So I’m stumped as to how to proceed.

A photo of my new setup. McIntosh MC462, C2700, Pure Fidelity Harmony TT, Lumin T3 & Sonus Faber Amati G5 & Gravis V speakers.

dwcda

Showing 4 responses by nonoise

@deep_333 Good to hear you only use material you're intimately familiar with.  Most other ABXers I've encountered on this site, online and in mags don't feel that way.  

I, too, primarily use music I know inside and out from repeated listening when swapping cables, listening for the cues I know to exist. Only on unfamiliar or casually listened to music can I be tempted to like something when trying out some of my lessor cables. I'll leave them in for a while only to have that sense of missing something and swap back in my references cables and presto, change-o, everything is right with the world. What I viewed as romantic and full was smeared and undefined. 

For me, the patently obvious changes are not to be dismissed, discarded, or passed off as some fancy of my imagination. Yes, all is well in the world. 

All the best,
Nonoise

So, someone needs to achieve a 92% rate of success in your test before you consider it a pass? 

You're a hard grader.  People are bombed based on "Confident" as there's no way to be absolutely certain unless you can see the person you want to bomb. 

By the way, Paul McGowan went through something similar when a friend came over and asked him if he could hear a difference, not knowing what was being changed and when it actually was changed, he was correct in all of his assessments. His friend was swapping out a fuse away from Paul as he sat and he couldn't see what was going on, let alone what his friend was doing. 

That really pissed off the measurement crowd. So much for parlor tricks.

All the best,
Nonoise

There are rigorous classes for Somms as well and most just can't cut it. With wine I've learned a few things but could never reach the heights of perception as my Somm friends no matter how much I try. 

One could memorize all the different cues on those wheels and still not be able to match them to what one's tasting on a consistent basis.  There's way too many factors at play. I've even seen Somms blow it on blind tastings while I got it right (only on two occasions).  Everyone does. What I taste is rarely what others do and vice versa. Sure, there's overlap in some broad areas but the nuances are always different. 

Here's a study on single malts and blends that the author disputes but the comments section leaves open the possibility that most simply cannot tell the difference between the two unless they know beforehand what they're drinking, like the study concluded. Not everyone can do it.

All the best,
Nonoise

Why apologize for your beliefs? No one who knows better will take issue with your hubristic statement. Been there too many times to count. This is old news. They'll just move on, making improvements in their systems by using that which has served them so well all this time: their ears.

As for Somms, have you ever met one and did a fair amount of wine tasting with them? If so, you'd find your analogy a faulty construct. Their ability to discern is inherent in their DNA, like all of our senses. Some are "wired" for it, others not so much, with lots of grey area between the two. Out of a couple thousand DNA combinations, around 300 make up an individuals tasting abilities, making it almost (if not just like) fingerprints: no two are alike.

Same goes for ones hearing, eyesight, sense of smell, and touch. I've seen someone reading font of this size (about 15 for my purposes) from a chart a good 12 feet away, easily (he had 15/20 vision and was testing his son who was the same while bored in the DMV). Why would one think all hearing is alike and begrudge others who just have better hearing capabilities? That is ego.

All the best,
Nonoise