I have recently decided to begin upgrading to stereo components around the entry level audiophile range, and move away from home theater stuff. I need help, as I had no idea until I began recently researching modern amps, preamps, integrateds, etc, just how huge the selection there is available.
Currently, I have the following:
Harman Kardon AVR 235 A/V receiver Front L&R channels: 50 Watts per channel @ <0.07% THD, 20Hz–20kHz into 8 ohms
Harman Kardon FL 8385 CD Changer
Klipsch KG 5.5 Floorstanding Speakers frequency response 34Hz-20kHz±3dB power handling 100 watts maximum continuous (500 watts peak) sensitivity 98dB @ 1watt/1meter nominal impedance 8 ohms tweeter K-85-K 1" (2.54cm) Polymer dome compression driver high frequency horn 90°x60° Tractrix® Horn woofer Two K-1023-K 10" (25.4cm) Injected Carbon Graphite cones Bass reflex via front-mounted port
Grado Labs SR325 Headphones
I use the receiver strictly for stereo music playback with my HK CD changer, or I play .flac or .mp3 files via input to the receiver from my computer sound cards optical digital output.
I want to keep my Klipsch speakers for now, along with my Grado cans, which I love. OTOH, I have not been particularly happy with the two HK components. Although the sound is not totally bad, it is a tad too bright, and it is fatiguing to listen over long periods of time. My room acoustics are not ideal either, with hardwood floors and drywall throughout. The listening rooms dimensions are 14'x13', with speaker placement along and near the corners of the 13' wall. At present, I cannot afford any of the acoustic treatments I see on the various internet sites.
From what I have seen so far, I think I would favor the warm, rich, clear sound of tube components. My Klipsch speakers are highly efficient at 8 ohms, so I should not need higher power, but I don't want to lose bass response either. I have not had much experience listening to higher end audio, but I really loved the sound of a friends McIntosh receiver (late 70's vintage), and another friends 60's vintage tubed HH Scott receiver, both systems paired with matching speaker pairs of the same brands respectively. Those experiences are why I believe I should really consider tube amps.
Would someone please be so kind as to suggest components that would allow me to play CD, CD-R, and digital music files based upon what I stated above? I suppose I could do without the ability to directly play back the digital files, but a CD player is a must have. Oh yeah, my budget is up to $3000, but I want to get as much as I can for the best possible price under that ceiling. Thanks.
Blindjim, I didn't say that you're "half baked" I was speaking of tube rolling audiophiles, in general, not being anywhere near as qualified as the designers of their equipment to make decisions about the best tubes for the equipment. In hobbiests vs. professional designers, the designers win most of the time.
If a designer wants to put a pre-amp, for instance, and then says to his customers something like, "If you want even better sound, then I recommend that you spend another $1500 on these tubes and it'll be an easy upgrade that you can do yourself" then I think that's useful. OTOH, the hobbiest that buys an $15000 Conrad Johnson and immediately says to himself, "I bet that I can make it better by swapping the tubes out for some NOS" is fooling himself.
My main point is, tube rolling is NOT an advantage to tube equipment UNLESS the owner just likes to tube roll. Anyone that enjoys tube rolling should obviously seek out tube equipment. However, IMHO, equipment designers are generally in the best position to decide which parts will sound the best in their equipment. Lots of us would rather buy from a designer that's put together his best effort and stick with that.
"No matter how you shake it, tube gear offers additional advantages over solid state merely by their nature. Don’t confuse that with performance though. That’s a whole other realm."
So tubes have some mystical advantage over SS, but it's not performance??? Please tell us what "realm" these so called advantages lie in.
I sometimes enjoy turning the lights off and watching the tubes glow on my great little Woo Audio WA6 headphone amp. Is that of what you speak???
"I think that's fine for those people that enjoy that, but I'm in the very substantial camp that would rather pay a designer to do his best work and buy accordingly."
Changing tubes no more invalidates a "designers best work" than swapping power cords. Many designers, especially the more prolific ones, will tell you there are many considerations when they select a tube, they don't choose exclusively based on best sound. In fact, I just had this conversation with a designer who was very enthusiastic about a tube that he thought sounded incredible in his amp but was too rare. We talked for some time about the choices he made, even in circuits, and not everything he decided was his personal choice for his listening preferences and system. He frequently made decisions calculated to broaden the products appeal.
Dave in all due respect, where did you come up with $1500 NOS tube replacement. If that is what you paid.........It just might explain your anti_tube parade. I personaly wouldn't down anyone for their choices and preferences. We all know what we like and it might not be necessary what the next guy prefers but the most important fact is that it sounds good to you.
Wow, interesting attack Macrojack, you know attack my friends just because I don't think that tube rolling is an automatic advantage of owning tube gear and I point out that many prefer to buy a well designed system and just enjoy the music.
Nowhere do I attack tube rolling and its proponents.
As for Jeff Rowland, what does it matter where he started??? I see a snear in your words that would belittle a proud, honest man that once made a living doing mods and is now a highly respected designer with a world wide following. Are you jealous, or what? Attacking my friends is like a personal attack and probably doesn't fit within A'gon rules, IMHO.
Rod Tomson is surely a friend. I was a musician and audiophile for decades before I met Rod. We hit it off for many reasons, not the least of which is our compatable views of music (he's a musician also) and what two-channel audio can do.
You presuppose that I'm anti-tubes when you say if I tried them then I'd be a loud proponent. That is far from the truth. My first integrated amplifier was a used Scott 20 watter that I bought when I was 18. one of my favorite jazz guitar amps is an Alessandro Italian Greyhound, with all the bells and whistles. My headphone amp is a single-end, Class-A, Woo Audio WA6 with a Holland GZ34 rectifier tube. (Not provided by Jack Wu, but recommended by him, so yes I do "roll", but that doesn't mean that I think it's an "advantage"0. Until recently my phono pre-amp was a nice little tube unit. So you see, I'm not anti-tubes, yet despite my use of tubes I'm not singing their praises as the only viable option.
So back to my advice for the OP, listen and follow your ears, take your time and don't get pressured into ANYTHING including being belittled into thinking you MUST get tubes to qualify as an audiophile. Tubes are one of two or three possible amplifier camps. Trust your ears. Oh, don't be afraid of tubes if that's where your ears take you.
06-18-08: Mrjstark said: "Dave in all due respect, where did you come up with $1500 NOS tube replacement. If that is what you paid.........It just might explain your anti_tube parade. I personaly wouldn't down anyone for their choices and preferences. We all know what we like and it might not be necessary what the next guy prefers but the most important fact is that it sounds good to you."
I've found over the years that many people do, indeed get "bullied" by their perceptions of others. (It's actually a marketing strategy of certain audio dealers, as we know). They come to places like A'gon as newbies and tend to see us contributors as somewhat "expert", perhaps more so than deserved. We can't save everyone from the "wolves" (potential bad dealers, potential bad A'goners, etc.) but sometimes we can help them navigate by building up their trust in their own capacities.
Dave, if you want to play that game fine. Tell me what tubes and which preamp did you have in mind. I have had quite a few preamps and I never spend more then $400 on NOS tubes. And that was the most that I have ever spend on tubes for the single unit (in fact those are my Cyber mono blocks ). For exemple my present preamp is using 2 , 6922 or 7308 tubes. It is design to double the live of tubes as well so it not that bad. Two of the best tubes of that kind are (IMO) Amperex 7308 PQ white label and 6922 orange lable (nice tube for the money) and Mullards work nice with that design as well. I bought 6 pairs (one pair of each) for the total of $200. Since my preamp runs on batteries , no need for expensive cords which can cost from $100 to $1000 and more. In my opinion that is a good deal. On top of everything ,I can swap the tubes to complement the music of choice. Then again , that is me.......your preferences are different and I respect that as long as it is your opinion and not the formula for success as you claim.
Mariusz, I'm not playing a game. I payed just under $300 for a Holland GZ34 rectifier. I've seen 300Bs for many times more and I've seen GZ34s as high as $700+. If you've got an intergrated amp with several tubes and you're going for the best sound possible, as I assumed, then $1500 is not much.
I spent over $9000 for my SS, integrated, including the phono-stage. Without looking back at my example, I think it only came to $5000, so I wasn't implying that $1500 was a ton of money. (I spent that on 3 ICs this week!!). You seem shocked that someone would spend that kind of money, but I thought that I was offering a real world example.
Let me give another example. I bought the Woo Audio WA6 for around $600 new. The NOS rectifier was $250 and if I replaced the power tubes with comparable, highest quality tubes, I'd spend another $200. That doesn't quite double the investment, but it gets it close.
My point is, once again, being able to tube roll is NOT an automatic advantage to owning tube equipment, UNLESS you enjoy doing that kind of thing. I think there are at least as many equipment owners that would rather not have to do such things to maximize the performance of their rigs.
Dave, I am not saying that it is an advantage......but just another choice. I own RWA which is a T-amp and it doesn't fit in neither camp , but it sounds wonderfull. It is the sound that I found appealing not the technology behind it. I have heard few very good SS designs but the ones that I like cost an arm and a leg.
There are many sources for NOS tubes. Prices verry from reasonable to outrageous and sick. So I can see how one could end up paying top dollar for good tubes.
I might just add that there are excellent designs out there and it does't matter which cape one is going to choose but the sonic qualities that suit that person best.
Listening is the key. Just use your own ears to do it.
"being able to tube roll is NOT an automatic advantage to owning tube equipment, UNLESS you enjoy doing that kind of thing"
I don't enjoy doing that kind of thing but I sincerely enjoy the music so much more. Maybe I got lucky but in my system it's been the greatest "bang for the buck" improvement I've heard - and please don't tell me the improvement is subjective.
"06-18-08: Dcstep Mariusz, I'm not playing a game. I payed just under $300 for a Holland GZ34 rectifier.
You paid too much...by double if not triple. I'd suggest seeking a different source for your tubes. You're getting reamed."
See, I told everyone that tube rolling wasn't an "advantage" to owning tube equipment.
Tvad, thanks for your concern, but I looked for several weeks for a metal-base Holland and saw several over $600. If I'd spent more weeks or been more "expert" I might have found a better price, but I didn't and I don't plan to buy many more tubes in my lifetime.
Red Wine Audio is one of many. I called it T-amp but chip amp might be a more accurate name. Power is limited to digital chip that is the source of juice. I am not sure but 40wpc is the upper limit of that chip. Usualy it is a very simple design but it takes the know how to squeez the most out of this technology. Since RWA Sig. 30 or 30.2 is also battery powered , the filth that degrade and hunts our systems is greatly reduced. I am not trying to promote that approach but it did wonders in my NY home. NY is known as the audiophile's nightmare when it comes to power and problems that somethimes are imposible to overcome.
If you are or ever will be in NY area , you are more then welcome to visit, listen and have a couple cold ones.
Tvat , have you listen to RWA???? If not you should give it a try. If you want to try it out let me know. I could loan you mine for a short time to try it in your rig. You seem like an honest guy, so.....I don't see any problems with that , if you want to give a shot. It will be my pleasure.
Cheers Mariusz
P.S IMO it is better then the ones from your list. But that is me.
Understood Tvad, I call those Class-D or ICEpower. They're not "digital" at all, since there's no analog-to-digital or digital-to-analog conversion that takes place. The main chip set in my Rowland controls the remote control functions.
Chap_cat, One more suggestion. If you want to fool around with vintage tube gear, I would at least look into something like H.H.Scott from the 60's . My buddy has one and I loved its middle range, liquid, musical and very seductive sound. In fact, I liked it so much that I am getting one for myself. I will pick it up this Friday. I will have Bob Backert (my favorite tech.) look at it and see what can be done to make it even better. I bought it for $300 ( Scott 299B integrated) and small mod performed by B.Backert shouldn't cost more then $300-$500. I would guess that then it should compete with the best. I will post my impresions in my system when the time permits.
I just returned home from my jaunt into San Antonio to do my first day of shopping and listening. Unfortunately, I came home quite disappointed.
My first stop was an appointment at Galen Carol Audio. Mr Carol was very nice and professional, and obviously knew his business. I was disappointed however by the lack of components that I was most interested in, and that fell into my price range. He had no tube gear in stock, which was a major disappointment. He advised that the amps that I would audition would smoke the tube competition in their price range. My first listen was to:
Creek Classic 5350 SE int amp Creek Destiny DCP Splendor S8e speakers
Excellent soundstage and detail. I was very impressed, but he did not have the Creek Classic CDP, which is more into my price range, so I have no idea how much difference there would be. Mr Carol assured me that the difference was slight.
The only other audtion was:
SimAudio Moon I-3 int amp SimAudio Moon CD-1 CDP a pair of very expensive and very tall electrostatic speakers of which the brand name now escapes me
It was an awesome listening experience. It is the first stereo I have listened to that when I closed my eyes, I thought I was listening to a live performance. I would have sworn the female vocalist was singing 20 feet in front of me. Although the bass was accurate to the nth degree, it was not very deep, but the sound was so beautiful, I did not really miss it. Again, the problem was lack of the particular component in my price range, in this case, the SimAudio Moon I-1.
My next stop was to Bjorn's to hear the Rega and PS Audio gear. They also carry McIntosh, but I did not listen, as it would have only bummed me out even more since it is hopelessly out of my budget. What I did hear:
PS Audio A-100 power amp PS Audio P-200 preamp PS Audio Digital Link III DAC Rega Saturn CDP B&W 803S speakers
I was fairly impressed with the sound here also, but not quite as much so as with the earlier rigs. Again, it is the Rega Apollo that is in my price range, and they did not have it in stock. The deal offered: If I buy the PS Audio amp/preamp, the DAC would be thrown in free for a total of $2000. The Rega would have to be special ordered because they did not have one in silver to match the PS Audio components. Also, I was not impressed by the spartan appearance of the PS Audio pieces. They were small and plain. I want good sound, but I also want something that is at least a little sexy.
I so wanted to hear some tube amps/CDP's. You would think that in a city of 1.2 million people, there would be a shop with at least something in stock to hear. With this being the case, I am not sure what to do now. Only one other shop in San Antonio, Blue Marble Audio, carries high end audio with brands that I have not heard, but when I spoke with the salesman, he said they did not have any tube gear in stock either. Should I take a chance on purchasing something from online new or used but of excellent repute without listening first, but based on advice from you folks? I may have to make that decision, especially since I live so far out in the boondocks.
One more suggestion. If you want to fool around with vintage tube gear, I would at least look into something like H.H.Scott from the 60's . My buddy has one and I loved its middle range, liquid, musical and very seductive sound. In fact, I liked it so much that I am getting one for myself. I will pick it up this Friday. I will have Bob Backert (my favorite tech.) look at it and see what can be done to make it even better. I bought it for $300 ( Scott 299B integrated) and small mod performed by B.Backert shouldn't cost more then $300-$500. I would guess that then it should compete with the best. I will post my impresions in my system when the time permits.
After today, I certainly am not ruling that option out. As I earlier stated, I have had two lengthy experiences listening to tube gear, and one of those was a Scott, which I loved. I thought the sound of the equipment I listened to today was far superior to what I now own, but there was no question to my ear that it was SS.
If you go with vintage , I could help you with restoration and or to add some nice wooden case. I am done with my house renovation - that will give me extra time to finish some projects for my audiophile friends ( you too Chad - if you are still interested.) There is another option since you tasted some of the goodiess allready. But that would cost you about 4K including new speakers and components you never heard of. It would shamed the systems you heard today and put you up there with the big boys. One thing - your room dimentions - and can you pull the speakers at least 3feet from the walls????
Thanks for the offer. Much appreciated. My room is 14x13, with the speakers place near the 13' wall corners, and pulled out about 3' and away from the side wall about 1', per Klipsch guidelines.
Chap cat, Mapleshade sells modified vintage Scott tube components including a $1495 receiver. I haven't heard these myself but they sound interesting and are offered with 30-day money back. Perhaps another member can post regarding their quality.
14X13 is quite small but it is possible to get a decent sound out of it. What is the purpose of this room and how much freedom do you have to optimize it to get the best sound possible (Wife Acceptance Factor).
If you were willing to buy all or almost all used I could recommend two or three systems that would work. Those would be from my personal experience only. But I would still try your local audiophile club......I am sure there is at least one in or near your area.
06-18-08: Mrjstark 14X13 is quite small but it is possible to get a decent sound out of it. What is the purpose of this room and how much freedom do you have to optimize it to get the best sound possible (Wife Acceptance Factor).
If you were willing to buy all or almost all used I could recommend two or three systems that would work. Those would be from my personal experience only. But I would still try your local audiophile club......I am sure there is at least one in or near your area.
The room is my bedroom. My wife is now an ex (see earlier post in this thread), so that is not a problem. The living room or den is not an option. One of the things I shopped for today was items to experiment with the room acoustics. I bought some carpet panels to place on the walls temporarily in primary reflections points. I also upgraded my interconnects to a higher quality Monster Cable, THx certified cable. I just finished listening to Massive Attack's Mezzanine album, and immediately noticed added improvement, especially in the lower mids and all the lows. Highs are also less bright. The heavy bass drum on the opening track was less boomy and much tighter than before. Liz Fraser's vocals have never sounded so sweet on this system before. Soundstage is better, but still not what I would consider real deep. I believe the room can be worked with.
06-18-08: Phaelon Mapleshade sells modified vintage Scott tube components including a $1495 receiver. I haven't heard these myself but they sound interesting and are offered with 30-day money back. Perhaps another member can post regarding their quality.
I would be very interested in hearing any opinions too.
Sorry your forray into live auditioning wasn't quite to your expectations... Selling or stepping up a buyer is what salesman do.
In my area there is scant little 'customer friendly' audiophile outlets. Either they are incredibly arrogant & condescending to the customer or completely inflexible on price, or limit what one can preview in already setup systems. There is one outlet which is pretty good but is now just too far to visit.
Consequently, I've bought almost every piece in my system without audition beforehand. I've done a few system itterations as well during the course of the past eight years. The past five, intently. Given my own exp. I'd say doing the "Audiogone buy & try shuffle" is a worthwhile endeavor, provided good sense and a trust your gut attitude is in place up front. That and some goals of what you would like to wind up with in the end.
Personally, I'm here for the music and not a routine gear hound... moving in & out pieces just to try on for size. Which ever way you go, and there really is no wrong way...just longer and shorter ways... buying without trying first can and is an option.
For instance, the Rega Apollo which is in your price range new, could be supplanted for the Saturn, used. the Jolita amp new could also be stepped up to another level there or with another lable, if bought used. Depending upon popularity and price points, flipping the component if it's not your preff, is most viable then.
On the previewed compnents list I still have? Just two, my Sony CDP & my Thor preamp. The VSA VR 4JRs are gone... and what has replaced everything is far better... I never heard the Dodd mono blocks before buying 'em, or the Sonata IIIs or the Bel Canto DAC 3, or the Elrod pc, Halley PLC, or some of the cabling I now own, either. I am however very, very pleased with it all and to the point, am not considering my 'next' whatever purchase. Which IMO is where you are satisfied. No longer in the hunt, so to speak. that is a real relief too.
Being very honest here, what I got in my living room now is far better than what I have heard at several high end joints in my area. 90% of which was bought 'on the come' so to speak.
That Simm audio system got your attention... then it's evident that the CDP in that rig put out a fine enough signal for you? Maybe start there and move on down the line. Adding what you can as you can.
that's exactly why I said, "Slow down".
or just get an Apollo or Saturn here online along with a Jolita amp you like.... and use the Cable Co,. to try without buying, some ICs & PCs.
Some gear makers offer a 30 day in home trial with a money back guarantee! So there's another option.
Read the rags... ask the ones here who have bought loads of stuff what they think about a thing, and try to connect with those whose tastes correspond to your own.
.... and forget about prefection... as there is nothing perfect on this rock. you'll not go far wrong, if at all.
The only issue I see as a real problem for a person putting together a high end system is their own self... their ego in fact.
Buying without trying first can and does work... if you're smart and paitient. were it not for Audiogone and some other manufacturers I've met because of Audiogone, I'd never ever have been able to have in place a system on the level I own now.
"Being very honest here, what I got in my living room now is far better than what I have heard at several high end joints in my area. 90% of which was bought 'on the come' so to speak."
Amen brother ! And it isn't that tough to do !
"In my area there is scant little 'customer friendly' audiophile outlets. Either they are incredibly arrogant & condescending to the customer or completely inflexible on price, or limit what one can preview in already setup systems."
Doncha just love west central Florida for audio ?
Chap Cat; "He had no tube gear in stock, which was a major disappointment. He advised that the amps that I would audition would smoke the tube competition in their price range."
It has been my experience that shops are either pro tube or pro SS . While some may carry both they usually lean toward only one . It will be evident in the equipment that they have setup for demo's . A good question to ask before going there for an audition . If you are required to make an appointment... be very specific about what you want to hear .
I agree with some of the above about giving strong consideration to going vintage. If you take your time you can build a very nice system for well under your budget. That is what I have had to do and am very happy with the results. Those that have heard my system have commented that they love my system and that they should have saved their money and gone that route. I have less than $2000 in my complete system which includes 2 TT.
Going vintage requires patience and lots of footwork, but you will be amazed what you will find if you persist.
What I have done with vintage is buy what you find that is better than what you currently have, listen to it for a while until you find something better and sell your previous gear (usually for a profit). If I took the profit into consideration, I actually probably have closer to $800 in my system, but it did take considerable time, but the hunt is part of the fun for me. I am currently very satified with where I am and don't look for gear like I used to. Now my focus is directed on building a music collection that I love.
Wwwrecords has it right. You can remove most of the anxiety from this whole process by just buying used product judiciously and stair-stepping your way up. It is entirely possible to make money on these exchanges but just avoiding a loss is victory enough. The definition of vintage will vary from person to person but I would say that any product with a proven track record that has reached the bottom of its depreciation curve qualifies nicely. With products that fit this description, you would be hard pressed to lose money. With new product you can be certain of losing. The amplifiers I mentioned above (Rowland Model 1 and Ayre V-3) are near classics which will hold their value indefinitely while providing you with a performance level and reliability quotient you are unlikely to find in new Chinese product at anywhere near the price. I'm sure there are many others. I chose these examples because I'm familiar with them. If you want tubes in the chain, it would be better to have them in the preamp than in the amp for numerous reasons. You can also go for a tubed CDP although I still maintain you will be shorting yourself by passing on the OPPO 980H. It provides a big advantage when limited funds are available. If you bought either amp I named, and the OPPO, you would have enough money left over for a used Modwright SWL 9.0 SE. and some good wires. The Monster stuff isn't going to play at this level.
I've been following this thread and in my view, you're getting good advice. I wanted to second Tvad's comment about buying gear that is popular, this way if it doesn't suit, you can sell it right away.
A couple of good examples might be the Rega Apollo and Cambridge 840 CD players. When priced fairly, these sell right away. So an audition basically costs you shipping and some time if you don't want to keep it.
I'm not anxious to suggest which CDP might be best for you, but if you wanted to give tubes a whirl, the Jolida JD100A is a very nice player for the money (used ~$550) and would allow you the chance to roll a few old 12AX7 tubes which are available readily--and they improve the sound a lot over stock.
Re not affording room treatments: you might want to consider some of the cheaper foam squares that are available - e.g. Sonex and other squares that are easy to place on a wall. Just adding this kind of thing at the first reflection points on your side walls can help with brightness and listener fatigue too. What I'm saying is that you might not need to invest much to get a significant improvement in that area.
"Also, buy stuff that has a decent following so the pool of buyers is large."
That is such elegant advice, it's somewhat amazing to me how often it's ignored. If you're a regular browser of the classifieds, you'll see certain components that you just can't seem to click on fast enough before they're gone.
I have made my purchase! After spending ALL of my free time over the last week perusing the internet for information and reviews, reading Stereophile and The Absolute Sound, I have purchased the following through Underwood HiFi:
JoLida JD302BRC Int Amp, new, stock JoLida JD100 CDP, with level one mod Wireworld Equinox 5² Interconnects Wireworld Oasis 5² Speaker Cables
Reasons I decided on this system:
1. I just really wanted to try out a tubed amp.
I was very impressed by Wally Liederman. After describing my budget, and what components I was replacing and keeping, I told him I was leaning toward the JoLida JD1502RC Hybrid, or the JD502BRC, paired with the JD100 CDP. I told him how much I liked the sound of the vintage Scott amps when I was younger. I told him that I had listened to the SimAudio, Creek and PS Audio amps, and although impressed with their clarity, detail and soundstage, it was not the sound I was looking for. He could have led me to any of a good number of other amps that he carries, but he immediately recommended that I instead seriously consider the JoLida JD302BRC. He said he was very familiar with my Klipsch speakers model, and that this pairing would be much better than the other two, as it would better limit the brightness of the horn tweeter, and the fifty watt power output would be more than enough. He said the CD player would also be a fine match.
I also inquired about modding the two pieces. After the pricing was done including the level one modding, it was just outside my budget, and would not allow me to purchase a new rack for the new system. I said lets just go with modding the amp. He immediately recommended that I instead have the CDP modded if one or the other. It would be advantageous in that I should want the best possible source signal as the highest priority. If necessary, I could tube roll later with the amp. This made great sense to me.
2. I wanted to buy new for my first system.
Because of the initial cash outlay, having the piece of mind that comes with that 2 year warranty was a major factor.
3. I wanted modern components.
I strongly considered going the vintage H.H. Scott route, and it would have likely saved a good amount of money. However, I just balked at having something that old for my first foray above mid-fi, even if it did still play well or was rebuilt. Anyway, I still may purchase a Scott amp just for the pleasure of owning it in the not too distant future.
4. Highest quality at it's price point.
I had a very hard time finding negative reviews of this amp or CDP. It seemed every review basically said the same thing, "Is it the best sounding amp? No. Is it the best bang for the buck above the mid-fi level for new components? Yes." The CDP was also very well liked by reviewers and owner comments that I read.
I also read many positive comments on Wally Leiderman and Underwood HiFi.
Walter knows what he is talking about.....one of the good guys. I bought my Dodd preamp from Walter and couldn't be happier with the service . Glad to hear that you are finally going to get your system that you craved after.......however , I think you jump the gun.......a little early but I get that way sometimes myself. Warranty is always a good thing and Walter's generous when you decide to trade-in for new toys. I will send you something to read tonight (on the way from work now).
Enjoy new toys and tell us if the Santa was good to you this year.........or not.
Congrats Chaps on your new system. How long till you take delivery? I had a 1301 hybrid for a short time and spent extensive time listening to a friends 502. I think you will enjoy it.
Post your thoughts and impressions when you have listened for a while.
congratulations! There's no right or wrong here really. Just faster and slower.
Many tend to agree it all starts up front with the signal producer or source. Walter's dead on there. I was worried for a while.
The 'no' rack situation is too bad... but it's just for a bit. I hope you do your homework there too. it's a real aspect/portion of a system that truly does impact the sound. it took me a long time to come around on that topic too. There used to be a whole lot of "yeah, sure!" in me about so many things audio which just didn't seem to be real additive items... like wires, power conditioning, isolation and yeah, racks too.
One note you'll find here and elswhere when perusing various topics.... "Everything makes a difference."
...and it does. One of the very best moves I made to my system was adding a substantial component rack and sure wish I had done it sooner once I heard the after effects.
Until it's time for investing in a rack, there's plenty of short money solutions for isolation.... and that spinning tube CDP should have some nice footers gotten for it. there's tons of 'em out there but I'm sort of liking a cuople types.... Bright Star nodes, and Herbies Audio labs iso cups... his tube rings BTW really do work well and aid imaging... all the above items are like from $5 - $30 ea. and can be bought as you go .... herbie's also offers a 90 day in home trial of all his products. Cheap... lot's of time for audition... and a money back guarantee.... I'd call that a slam dunk for solid inexpensive gains in performance.
I'm glad you got with Walter in the end and you're on your way! Add another few weeks to the projected waiting time for the gear to run in as well, though I'd say it'll all be ready or very close to it in 150 - 300 hrs... perhaps less but I'd not get my hopes up.
I just want to thank all you fine folks that advised me over the past week. I look forward to sharing my viewpoints in the future, and also look forward to reading yours.
I know many of you recommended taking it slow, and that was good advice. The problem I had was that I had little chance of actually auditioning any HS amps in my region. Since I already liked that sound, I just felt I had to try it out. If I don't like it, then I will learn from it and sell it to someone else who might enjoy it.
I really believe I have made a good choice based on my circumstances.
BTW, I came in at $800 under budget, so I do indeed still have enough left to look at racks. I am a pretty fair woodworker, and have the tools. I may look for a good plan and just build one, or study others and come up with my own plan.
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