@stuartk ...my previous system (same speakers + dac, with Wells Audio Majestic integrated and Simaudio transport) was not at all fatiguing and there was not a trace of sibilance.
...One dac that interests me is Border Patrol, which is very much designed with particular attention to power implementation.
This is a key indicator to me. Since the new integrated and new transport was introduced, the issues you describe started to occur. Also, re-check your path of any new "silver" based cables (power, interconnect) you introduced around the same time. If you have stock power cables lying around, try all together at once.
btw, I own the new Border Patrol SE-I dac, while I agree its smooth and non fatiguing, if I may suggest, I don’t think the dac change alone is going to resolve all of your noted issues. I kind of suspect its a combination of things going on now. Imo, as a test, I’d borrow/swap the amp and transport and [all] cables back out with stock ones all at once. Then go in reverse putting new pieces back in play one-by-one to see if it surfaces again. Worth trying to help understand if you can narrow down a specific culprit (or combination of things) from there. Best of Luck.
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@jimmy2615 ...If I recall correctly I think in one review of the La Voce the reviewer found it a bit strident on the top end compared to some other DACs.
I vaguely recalled a similar comment and looked back a few years to try and locate when folks were comparing the S2 vs. S3 versions of the La Voce dacs, and found members on another forum changing out caps in the S2 in an attempt to tame some of that with Jupiter Beez Wax caps and such. Not sure how it turned out. Maybe something there worth following up on to learn more.
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Hey @stuartk while I don’t directly know @grannyring myself, I believe he did some mod upgrades for another member friend here on another r2r dac model both of us owned prior. There are some older threads where he’s chimed in on the S2 vs. S3 version. This may depend on how much you might want to spend on the older version design dac vs. applying those funds to something different to try - would. be your call to decide.
You’ve mentioned the Border Patrol dac a few times, now, and prior. I can share I had a few DSD and other known R2R dacs (upgraded) before I decided to try the newer version Border Patrol SE-I DAC. I was looking for something specific, with the tube design OUT of the direct signal path, since the rest of my system is all-tube today. The challenge is this dac gets better after the return policy period expires. In my case, there was no sending it back and I honestly don’t think about dacs any more since I acquired. the latest BP SE-I DAC. It’s right for my system. Works really well with my all tube system and with my other class A solid state amp too. You'll find various comments on the dac, and there are different versions, caps, and transformers used depending on how current the dac is, gotta check this.
A friend wanted to try the new SE-I dac version too, and to compare with his own Audile S5 DAC he likes a lot with his all triode tube system he uses. He had Gary do the combo USB / Digital coax version too with the switch. Side by side, he shared the BP is musical, not lacking detail, yet the Audile [in HIS system] has a tad more detail up top in his triode system, already a tad rolled off I guess. Both of us have been messing with and returning back to TDA1541 and TDA1543 chip based dacs vs R2R resistor ladder dacs. Our preference for our own reasons. I think it’s all system-dependent, and each dac mentioned [above] in this thread can perform differently in each of our systems. That’s why trying it in your system is the only way to know what works better for you. I don’t miss any of my former dsd uber-detail or former R2R dacs having given the SE-I a try. Back to music now. Your preference could vary greatly, fwiw. Depends one what gels best in your system, room, setup, etc.
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@stuartk "When I run my Jay’s transport direct into the Hegel’s DAC, fatigue goes away and while there is still some sibilance, it is not nearly so exaggerated."
If this is the case, as you may be wondering, perhaps there is some form of impedance or voltage synergy mismatch going on between your Aqua DAC and the Jays transport that exaggerates the issue somehow [when paired together].
You might be on the right path borrowing/trying different dacs and transport combos paired with your Hegel 390 amp. You already proved the Jays transport does ok with your Hegel amp’s AKM internal dac, directly. A few more steps to narrow it down perhaps.
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@stuartk on a different track for comparison troubleshooting, and if you got the chance, what happened when you plugged the Simaudio 260DT transport into the Hegel amp, using its internal DAC? Same/Better/Worse...?
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@stuartk worth a try for sure, and did you go with the Ultra or standard pure long grain [all] copper version AZ interconnects -or- the other version with Silver in it? Also did you go with XLR or RCA type ICs? I ask after comparing voltage spec differences with your dac and transport or each type of connection, fwiw.
Reason I ask is, I'll share I can go over to my cabinet and pull out two pairs of silver-over-copper interconnects and put them between my dac and preamp, and between preamp and amps, and will immediately create a similar added sibilance situation you referred to earlier. Particularly so on certain CDs or Lossless streamed tracks. Its all about finding a nice balance with your system, room, setup.
btw, after years of the silver-over-copper path through my system, this past two years I went back to all Cardas pure copper [digi coax, interconnects and speaker cables] in my system. And, with the right non-oversampling DAC, no more sibilance or etch, all gone. It sure can help, trying and landing on interconnects that work for you, in your system. Best of Luck, you'll get there if you keep at it!
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@stuartk following along with @audphile1 ’s point, something to be aware of about these different versions of cables, FWIW. Some familiar principals may apply.
Designers make changes to cables, interconnects. over time, and that can include metallurgy sources and dialectics used, connector types, solder, solder-on or crimping connecting methods used - and changes to the overall cable design itself, yielding varying results. Sometimes not always "better" results depending on who’s listening, and particular characteristics one might prefer either way. Some argue cables should not have a sound or think this is making use of "passive tone controls". Whatever the case, everything in (or out) of the signal path impacts the results, imo. Same goes for the internal wiring [and boards] inside of every component in the chain.
In my own research and ownership of different versions of interconnects, and buyers of some of the cables I resold to past 30+ years, there are a few older version "favorites" we hang on to and keep (hoard perhaps), liking them better. i.e. I’ve resold multiple pairs of much older TOTL Cardas Golden Cross to particular Pass Labs preamp/amp owners who may run brighter or more forward sounding speakers [and rooms]. i.e. hard floors or glass windows around, no curtains, etc.
I currently run an older/newer hybrid Cardas cable design myself, for similar reasons, and zero room treatments - a preference. In addition to component matching, I now think of it as we are also finding the right balance for each of our own systems, rooms, floors, walls, speakers, and our own individual ears.
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Hey @stuartk well I choose to place my system in the main family room, where we spend most of our time. Next to the kitchen and sound can be heard in both rooms. I’m not into weird objects and appendages all over the place or anything hanging, personally. With quite a bit of home theater furniture and various book shelves and items on shelves, curtains in the back near sliders, we do the best we can. It does okay as-is. "Good Enough" I guess. Being a regular spot, It makes my listening space my favorite place, and where I/we wanna be. It’s forced me to optimize my system in the best ways I can. I listen more this way too, which is more of a priority. The separate Man Cave space is used for other hobby stuff, is the other answer. :)
If you ever get a chance to see photos, take a look at the living rooms of some of the well known amp designers, and where they listen. Look around the room, you might tend to see multiple amps and multiple speakers. For some reason I don’t mind this type of added audio fixtures that can be swapped in/out sitting around. We all have our vices I guess. Enjoy yours! :)
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@stuartk hey there, I was looking back at some old threads in 2019 where you, grannyring, and a few others were going back and forth about the S2, S3, possible upgrades, and comparing and the upgraded MHDT Labs Orchid as a reference point. It gives a reference point, I had a nicely upgraded MHDT Orchid myself (for years) and used all the same tubes grannyring did. I noted you were commenting the same types of things back then about not wanting extra resolution or detail. I found this thread and banter kind of interesting.
https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/1794473
S2: There are other threads indicating the characteristics of the S2 version dac as being "warm" in fact. It does strike a thought that your upcoming cable swap test along with swapping other components in/out one-by-one might reveal something more. And finally other area comes to mind.
One other thought - apologize if this was touched on prior, somewhere. I was looking up the design of the dac and its care to isolated boards and power supplies within the design itself. Not sure about the Hegel, but worth asking anyhow...
AC Power:
AC wise, what is your Hegel amp and Aqua DAC plugged into at this time? By chance was anything changed where everything was plugged into (plug locations, power cords) after adding the two new major components into your system? Have the particular AC wall sockets been checked by an electrician for added noise, by chance? Something else to check if you have not already done so, fwtw.
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@stuartk okay, this is helpful. Since you do know DM locally, he is friends with the same 50yr tech friend [now retired] who was a mentor for me, learned a lot from him about amps, tubes, and more. That was years ago, learning core stuff.
With a nudge from him and a few other friends finally went down the path of quality power conditioning/stabilization to help eliminate any crossover noise with multiple components on the same circuit or junction box. And, another tube amp buddy who convinced [repeatedly] to go with higher quality [extra quiet] external power supplies for my streamer, DAC. He does the same on his CD transports. Things are dead quiet now, dark background, nice subtle details coming through, remaining harshness is gone. I should have known better, had to experience it 1st hand. We can take this offline and pay a visit with DM locally. I need to call him anyhow fwiw.
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