Luis,
Thanks for the tips. I would like to see if I can get the center imaging down a little. It's not really critical but I'll have to try your suggestion. You might also be right that I have a ceiling reflection situation. I don't have any type of absorbative or reflective material on any of my walls to include my ceiling. I'll eventually have to address that issue.
Thanks again for your suggestions,
Mike |
Vman:
IF you'd like to try lowering the voices point, you can try lifting the rear part of your speakers with something like wood pieces, etc to lower the sound projection from your speakers.
I really suspect you have a ceiling reflection situation here. With a couple of helpers a blanket or a piece of carpet and two brooms or something similar you can sit in the sweet spot and let them raise to the ceiling the carpet piece, if image does come down you have found the cause!
IF you need a temporary fix try the speaker angle variation trick.
Hope this helps
Luis |
I changed some of the distances, the changes were:
1. 8'5" feet between the two front speakers (from the center of the woofer cone to the center of the other woofer cone)
2. 9'0" feet between the plane (face) of the front speakers to my seating position when sitting back
Results:
No real change. The image of the center portion comes down as I sit more upright.
I'm going to leave it like it is for a while.
Thanks for all your comments!
Mike
|
Image should be at the height at which the recording was recorded...that is, if the vocal was recorded standing up and the artist is 6 ft tall..it should sound like he is standing in front of you.
The fact that you are seated has nothing to do with it. The test cd I mentioned above anounces exactly were the image should be with-in the soundstage as it is changed. If yours does not follow this simple test cd then something is a little off (or a lot off).
Of course none of this holds water for many recordings because of the way they were made (most pop music) could fit here along with new age types and rap ect.
Dave |
I'll try and move my seating position in a little and see how that affects the imaging (I'd rather not bring the front speakers out too much farther if I don't have too).
Luis,
I don't have any acoustical treatment on any of my walls of ceiling. I'll have to get to that some day.
One thing that I have to say is that the main vocals are precisely in front of me. I just didn't know that they were going to be as high as they are. From the way it sounds though, it's actually a good sign and also normal with some types of speakers. I'd be interested to hear what some others have to say about their imaging of the main vocals and where they are height wise in relationship to their ear level (sitting down in their preferred listening position. |
Hello,
I've had exactly the same issue in my system and I noticed the following things. First of all the height at which you sit relative to the tweeter can cause the image to move up and give you the voice of god effect (tm). I find that normally raising yourself relative to the speakers eliminates this issue. This is if you're not already noticably higher than your tweeters. |
Vman:
Have you tried moving the speakers closer to you i.e. 2 ft and check vocals position changes if any?
Do you have any ceiling accoustical tratment?
It might be the case that a absorbing material at the ceiling tweeter reflection viewed from your listening position might "lower" the voice image if that's what you looking for.
Your comments
Luis |
Stereophile test CD-3 (track #10) is a great test of your system imaging as this is what it is designed to do. All of the Stereophile test cd's are interesting and have many uses.
Dave |
This is a good thing. All images should have width, depth, AND height. An image that is constrained within the speaker's height is a result of a rolled-off high frequency response (unless it is a tall dipole). A well set-up sytem will normally have images coming from above the speakers. This indicates good vertical treble dispersion. Also, you'll find that the higher your ceilings, the taller your images will be. Relax and enjoy it. |
Vman, I honestly can't remember a speaker that I've ever owned that didn't image at or near the height that your describing. If you want imaging to be believable I would think your height should be right where it's at. Speakers that throw a lower image and soundstage, to me, don't seem near as realistic. Happy listening |
Some speakers just seem to provide a higher soundstage for vocals. My Aerial 10t's also will bring the vocals a bit higher than I anticipate. I've been told that is their nature. And it's done this in two separate and completely different rooms.
One thing you might consider doing though is pulling those speakers out about 5 feet from the back wall and toe them in a bit using a tape measure to align them, and then give it a good listen for a day or two. This may eliminate your concern or it may help you to forget all about it.
-IMO |
"V"...
I think the only thing you can do is try a closer (maybe 1 ft closer) listening position. It may help a bit, probably not much though. If it alleviates some of the problem, I suspect the compromise will be you'll lose some energy.
I'm pretty confident you're dealing with a skewed polar response which isn't too uncommon. Polar response is an amplitude measurement in the vertical plain of the speaker and is related to the transfer function of the crossover, driver placement in the vertical plain and driver offset. Polar response aberrations can be further exasperated by using 1st order networks and having one of the drivers wired internally out of phase.
In light of this, one other thing you might try if you're handy with simple mods is take the driver of the baffle and see if any are wired out of phase. With some of the Klipsch, if I remember correctly, you're likely to find at least one driver connected out of phase. Reverse the leads to correct polarity, put it all back together and give it a listen. Usually, when a driver(s) are wired internally out of phase, it's done to correct another problem such as frequency response so you may find yourself making some trade offs to sound quality.
Kindly,
Robert |
Herman,
Interesting you say that because I've told myself that that is exactly what it is, the singer is performing up on stage.
Robert,
Hello! From the inside of the front speaker to other inside of the other front speaker it is 7'5". It is 9'4" to my listening position.
The main vocals are directly in front of me and are consistently at the area which I described (where the stars are). As a matter of fact, a few people have asked me to move the flag to make sure that a speaker wasn't behind it. I'm very happy with the clarity, I just don't think the voice(s) should be that high. Then again, I've never heard music before that sounded this good. |
Hi "V".
Sounds like it could very well be a polar response issue in which case, it's cross-over related and/or polarity related. Do all vocals image high? How far away is your listening position?
Regards,
Robert |
I don't know what causes it, but a dealer who I respect once told me that within reason the lower the speakers are in respect to your listening height the higher the image will be. I can't swear that is true, but it's not unusual for the image to be higher than the speakers. In fact. it is quite common.
Just think of it as a performer up on a stage and enjoy yourself. |
My center channel is off. I'm focusing on 2 channel, the center channel is there for future HT.
I think my system sounds really good but I just think that the voice(s) in the center is a little too high. |
I don't know, is your center channel on or off??? If it's off your result is strange. If on, it's normal... In any case it probably doesn't matter that much in the grand scheme of things. How does it sound and image otherwise? |
