I'm interested in hearing from or about music lovers who have dropped out of the audio "hobby." I don't mean you were content with your system for 6 weeks. I mean, you stood pat for a long time, or--even better--you downsized...maybe got rid of your separates and got an integrated.
(I suppose if you did this, you probably aren't reading these forums any more.)
If this sounds like a cry for help, well, I dunno. Not really. I'm just curious. My thoughts have been running to things like integrated amps and small equipment racks and whatnot even as I continue to experiment and upgrade with vigor (I'm taking the room correction plunge, for example.) Just want to hear what people have to say on the subject.
Heck, wonderful to see, that this great thread is still alive. I poked my nose into it about 15 months ago and what I said then, holds still true. I'm back here now to ask a few questions on behalf of a friend and when that is done, I'll be off again to do an old wheezers version of what Joni Mitchell sang so beautifully about on her first LP..... and yes Drubin, what you read between the lines was true, but we got rid of it now. Cheers to you all. Being here, for a jiffy, rekindles such good memories. Bless your ears!!!!! (((:
Spend more money than you have, use a finance company, make payments on your system for five years that take all your disposable income, then, for at least 5 years, no more upgrade bug :):):):) I am kidding of course, at least a little bit Cheers!
Dpac, thank you for the 4 steps re-hab. If none of your above steps helps, then the last next step is stop replacing the dead battery of your hearing aid.
Someone wrote an article a few weeks ago discussing what compulsive consumers we in the West are. Basically he said that in the West the philosophy is, "the best is not good enough". In contrast, in China apparently the feeling is more like, "the best is good enough".
I don't know if the Western attitude is the force driving progress or the force driving us to destroy the Earth, or maybe both. But it sure does cost a lot if you are an audiophile.
How about spending all your money and max'ing out your credit cards buying music? That would have two effects, one, you would no longer have any money for upgrades, and two, you would spend so much time listening to all your new music that you wouldn't have time to haunt these forums and re-excite the itch to upgrade.
The internet is dangerous. I was pretty content with my system till I bought an MP3 player on impulse a few years ago. Believe it or not, that led to a series of events that has cost me many thousands of dollars, and I am not done yet. But, I have to admit that my system sounds great, is a joy to use (it's PC based), my music collection has grown immensely and I listen to lot more music, both at home and on the road.
The same thing happened when I discovered the light weight backpacking forums. Are we really sure these forums aren't the creation of some gigantic capitalist conspiracy?
Sell your separates and current speakers, put most of your money into even better speakers but go with a really nice integrated amp with tone controls. Choose carefully and you really may be off the merry go round while still retaining awesome sound.
It feels good to be back, I feel more rested. Bruce30, Merry-go-rounds can be fun but not when someone is standing by collecting large amounts of cash at every turn!
How does one get off the merry-go-round? Adopt a philosophy! Realize that all you can do is listen to live music and come as close as possible - then be satisfied! This takes discipline!
I hit a peak of purchasing equipment in 1995. About that time, I had my hearing checked by a Doctor and found my hearing was dropping off. Upon hearing that (barely...), I stopped buying equipment. I still enjoyed my system, but did not want to waste any $ on something I could not hear or fully appreciate. Then in 2005 I moved. In the new house, I put the old two channel prized equipment in storage. I had two theatre systems put in professionally. These two systems are very good but not my definition of an audiophile system. After two years of listening to this system, I found myself (1) not listening to music as much, (2) not enjoying the music as I had on my audiophile system, (3) experiencing fatigue when listening to music for duration, (4) not hearing a full dynamic range, despite less than perfect hearing, and (5) not as interested in exploring, discovering new sounds, musically.
I had heard of people "feeling" music in the inaudible regions, but at this age in my life, I dismissed such comments.
One day in 2006, I broke out the stored audiophile stuff and was amazed at what I heard. I started buying equipment again, updating my equipment, bought new stuff and started enjoying music as I did previously. I now have 5 systems.
Recently, I had my hearing checked by a reputable specialist. The Doctor determined that I had average hearing for my age. The Doctor also opined that I have a trained ear. During the test I was able to hear EMIs in the test equipment that the Doctor had been trying to get rid of.
My next project will be exploring with a limited system in which I have a SACD player with variable out connected to bi-amped and bi wired speakers (in a effort to get a pure sound in this location where I only listen to CDs/SACDs.
Regarding my earlier dismissal of "feeling" music in the inaudible region, I have changed my opinion such that I do believe I can feel substantial music which I cannot hear.
I am off the merry go round for goods, my friends. I was out of the hi-end hobby for years. Coming back last years, I had some good purchase but making a lot of unwised mistakes. I put all my faith and trust to a "guy" and here I am out of 12K and a lot of frustration. Sometime, due to limitation of gears to audition, I have to base my purchasing on recommendation of this "guy" I known for over a year...Luckily enough, I convinced the "guy" and I could trade most of my stuffs for new stuffs at extra expenses in a hope that maybe I can re-sell all my gears and get the hell out of the hobby. Everybody has to make a living but this is wrong of me and wrong of him.
Nice suggestion...or, alternatively, stick to gear that is selected by Pink Floyd, Mark Knopfler, Sting and many other famous recording artists and simply assume that these people know what they are doing when it comes to music and can afford to get what they find most convincing. Follow those "in the know" and trust their judgement... after all it is impossible to listen to everything that is out there and the constant change of the Merry-go-round strongly suggests there is a lot of gear out there that leaves people underwhelmed.
The bluetooth keyboard and trackball are to control everything from the listening position. The extensive acoustic treatment is placed where it is most important (behind the listener). Kudos to Mike Roskelley for a simply awesome studio setup.
downsize but don't sell out...buy a decent tube integrated, some efficient full-range floorstanding speakers, a good source, nice cabling & concentrate on finding new music. i did this over 2 yrs ago & never looked back.
I am feeling the "done for now" time is nearing since getting active speakers. I do want to try to work on acoustic treatments and possibly a projector but I'm pretty happy otherwise and everything fits in my cabinet. No more tubes, minimal cables, and very dynamic life-like sound. Fun.
You get off the merry-go-round when you finally come to your senses that 99% of the world does not give a sh** about this ridiculous and outrageously expensive hobby. This is usually the point when you discover that everything in the world that really matters is in front of you, not what is at the the next corner ( ie. upgrades ).... Put on a blindfold and you will hear very little differences between a $5,000.00 system which is properly set up and complimentary, to a $50,000.00 system which simply gives you braggin' rights. And we often talk about cocaine addicts and how sick they are. True enough, but audio is just as sick. Get the best you can comfortably afford, plug it in and enjoy it. You will listen and enjoy. BUT, buy an expensive system and chances are that after you spend 10X what you should have, you'll lose interest anyway.....
Blackwillard, 99% of the world doesn't care about sports cars, fine wine, plasma tvs, guns, electronic games, travel abroad, or any of the other vices that afflict modern society. Obviously, money is the key element is being able to afford your passion. :Your statement about hearing very little difference between a $5k system and a $50k system is, however, over the top. One would have to be a very poor audiophile to buy a system for $50k that would not be audibly superior to an average $5k system.
I find this thread quite interesting as I think there are few audiophiles that would want to get off. I have been doing this for nearly 50 years now and am still having great fun, more thoroughly enjoying realism, and enjoying the circle of audiophile friends I have met over the years.
Blackwillard, I think it is true that 99% of the world don't care about this hobby. But approximately the remaining 1% that do care are audiophiles (audiophiles represent a small segement of society). I would also agree there are far more important things in life including family but for an audiophile, a healthy balance between the two is a very good thing. It is when this balance tips towards compulsive behavior & out-of-control spending that leads to more serious consequences, thus the reason this thread exists for some.
Anyway I'm sure there are is an audible difference between a $50,000 system and one that costs $5,000 but the law of dimenishing returns do apply at a certain price point. If given $5,000 to work with, I could come up with a very enjoyable & satisfying system.
Perhaps for some it is the journey and sea of constant change that keeps them trapped on the Merry-go-round.
Careful perusal of this thread and A'gon site in general shows that many audiophiles claim to have gotten off the merry-go-round (found that ideal component, system, the BEST!). Great eulogies abound to this, that, and other prized components... that the great search is ended!
Recorded for posterity, these threads are like trunkless legs of stone, a shattered visage, in a desert where nothing beside remains: a testament to long dead, fleeting passions.
Near field listening ! I am listening to a modest system now near field, and enjoying it quite a bit.
1) Sony es CD player ($800) 2) Marantz 2285 receiver (from many decades a go) 3) Mission speakers ($300) 4) Wires - $160 5) Oneac power conditioner ($170)
When I go near, I gain so much in audio pleasure - makes me wonder why more people are not into it. I get my favorite cup of tea, and a book, and my music playing practically in my ears, and I am in heaven.
When I was four years old I walked over to my girlfriend's house and her mother informed me that she was not at home. I said "fine, i just came over to listen to her record player!" (And people say audiophiles have their priorities wrong!) The first "high end" system of memory was Altec A7's driven by a Dynaco st-70 with an Ampex 15 ips deck. This system would still make me happy if I had a very large room. I enjoy and appreciate the variety of equipment and recordings, but in hindsight I know I wasted a lot of time and money trying to get the latest approach which rarely represented real progress. My progress list for BETTER SOUND alone over the last forty years is short. 1. turntables (credit to Linn) 2. digital room correction 3. subwoofers (slow evolution just recently good enough to be high end)
My system includes these improvements, but many of its components are old enough to vote.
The other day while at work, I thought about all of the money I've sunk into this hobby. Just purchased new power cords, am waiting for a record cleaning machine to be delivered, ordered some record cleaning solution, new brushes to clean the records with...then thought I must be sick. Seriously thought about selling the whole thing, and getting out the old Marantz receiver, Denon cdp, and Altec speakers to fend off the possible future urge to upgrade. But then I regained my sanity....or is that my insanity????? There's no escape.
Emailists, you have brought up a good point in regards to the satisfaction of owning tube gear. I wish you would start a thread tube vs solid state & changing gear. I would post there.
Love of music is joy. Love of equipment is materialism. Love of music with great equipment makes the joy shine brighter, but when you start thinking about the gear too much it all turns to crap in your head. Just enjoy the music like you did when you were 20 and let the great gear do its job. Then music can be music again.
I have experienced this many times, and I have learned the hard way. Now I have great gear but I just concentrate on Coltrane, Bach, Webern, Schoenberg, Cecil Taylor, and Jimi Hendrix.
I am now off the merry go round and after a period of depression I have finally come to terms with it. What I found out about myself was that the process upgrading and swapping out gear was a big part of what I enjoyed about this hobby. I was just as much in love with obtaining the SOTA gear as I was with listening to music. After doing this at a pretty crazy rate for 3 years, I have finally ended up getting all the gear I want. With the upgrade excitement gone, I stopped listening to my system for a few months. It is ironic that after putting together a system supposedly only for the sole purpose of listening to music, I was no longer interested. I found myself buying "audiophile" music that I did not necessarily enjoy but that would make my system sound best. Clearly, I had lost sight of what this whole hobby is all about and got caught up in the process.
Only recently have I gone back to listening and what I re-discovered was my love of music. Growing up, I never cared how much detail I heard, or how wide the soundstage was, or how accurate the timbre was. I just cared that the music touched something in my soul. I am at the point again where I would be happy with a cheap all in one stereo from Best Buy or Circuit City. It has even crossed my mind to sell everything and downgrade to something much cheaper. Dont get me wrong, I am glad I have the system I have but I dont intend on doing any major upgrades. I will probably add a power cord here or there and get an AC conditioner but thats it. So I can confidently say, I have been and will remain off the merry go round (famous last words of an audiophile).
Could it be that materialism creeps in to our love of music a subtle and quiet way, like a thief in the night, slowly robbing us of the vast expanse of an artform. I say BEWARE! Music is so big, so deep, so amazingly profound. Equipment is merely seductive. Come on guys, which would you really choose? Of course the answer is to have both. Right. That's coming from a guy who just spent thousands on an SET amp and made his wife crazy with it. So I am guilty. I could have lived with my $1000 Audio Refinement SS amp and loved it, but no, I had to upgrade. So maybe this is my confessional. However no matter how deep I go I will always love music the same. No $8000 amplifier can make me love music more.
In the past year, I've pursued a music server solution. I loaded about one-third of my CD collection on the server and then decided to give it a rest and just enjoy. And I've discovered a couple of things about myself:
As expected, I am listening to stuff in my collection that I haven't listened to in years. It's so easy to just give something a try. And I often play the entire library on shuffle while I'm doing other things, so I'm getting re-exposed to stuff. This is very positive.
I've also discovered that I have a lot of music in my collection that I have no interest in listening to, and I can comfortably say that I never will.
In the all-vinyl days, I was more likely than not to listen to an entire album side in one sitting. With CDs and remote control, I've tended to be more selective, which has fueled a sort of ADD behavior of listening to only a few tracks, or skipping to the next if I grow impatient with a particular song. With the music server, I find this ADD pattern is exacerbated. It's like endless channel surfing. It has it's plusses, but on balance I don't like what's become of my relationship to recorded music.
I'm coming to realize that, for pure music enjoyment, my preferred relationship is the radio. I've never played a lot of tapes or CDs in the car because that's when I listen to radio; and that's how I discover new music. I prefer DJ radio, commercials and all, to what I've heard of satellite radio. I like the human connection.
Sonics aside, with Internet radio there are now plenty of good stations within my grasp. If I think about being able to choose between WWOZ, a few classical stations I've found, some college stations, and several others, I begin to wonder what else I need. So long as I could put in a CD of KOB or several dozen other staples when the mood strikes, I'm not sure I need to "own"most the stuff I have. I prefer the never-ending surprise of others' programming choices, the discovery of new stuff, and the re-discovery of old favorites.
So I'm letting this percolate for a while before doing anything rash. But the thought has occurred: sell the entire system and replace it with something better suited to listening to MP3 streams. Sell most of the music collection, too.
one can leave the audio merry-go-'round by first establishing a sonic objective, configuring a stereo system that achieves that objective, and, being satisfied with the sound, decides not to replace any component in the stereo system.
I think one could get off the merry go round for a while but if you are a music lover and an audiophile, you are still in the amusement park! You may not be on the rides, but you are reading magazines, posts, etc. and are always thinking about equipment, even if you are not actively pursuing it. Sometimes you get off the merry go round only to get on the ferris wheel or the roller coaster!
This thread is nearing its eighth birthday and still remains unresolved for many including, presumably, its author. So, is there an answer?
I'm not rotating like I used to - certainly I've slowed the circles down - but I also have unresolved issues with my system. There are no areas of glaring dissatisfaction. There are no important reasons why I couldn't just stop right now. But there remains a curiosity about what could be improved, about how I might achieve the same results from less complexity or less investment. Or how to refine what I have just a little more.
It all leads me ultimately to conclude that I will never be completely satisfied and I may as well just call it a day and live with what I have. In the final analysis (had to fit that word in here somehow) the problem really is with me and not the system. My expectations are driving this madness. They're the cause of perpetual grinding about what to do next or whether or not to do anything at all.
Ultimately it seems that until we transfer the focus from our systems to ourselves, we will be treating the wrong patient.
Wouldn't that be deliciously ironic? Lets start an audio buyers recovery meeting here. We could combine it with a weight watchers type program and score points for selling equipment and lose points for buying.
We would all tell our stories and say how long it had been since our last purchase and how we had gotten started innocently enough in this self-destructive behavior in the first place.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
