Wow, sounds like a very nice combination! Make sure you have plenty of ventilation, the ML's run at a low impeadence
which will run your receiver hard! Sound should be great.
Good luck..........Vader |
FOR GOD SAKES, NO!!!...That would be audio sacrilidge!!!!
Sonically, NO RECEIVER is worth $3800!!(or more than $2k for that matter!!). All Reveivers are a major sonic compromise, in just about every concievable area!
Even modest little power amps with a separate pre/pro are going to sound WAY better than what the receiver can put out in sound quality!...virtually every time!
It never fails...One time a few years back, when working in a hi-end audio store in my area, we tried comparing the Big Denon AVR5600 and Yamaha DSPA3090, driving both some small little B&W 601 monitors full range, and some larger Mirage M5's. The sound was just sort of acceptable for all sorts of music, being fed by a digital in from a DVD player...nothing special sounding really.
Then, we tried using the "pre-outs" of the receiver's connected to a Denon POA8200 power amp for the poewr....THE DIFFERENCE WAS NIGHT AND DAY BETTER!!...THE RECEIVER'S ON THEIR OWN WEREN'T EVEN IN THE SAME LEAGUE, SOUND WISE, AS WHAT THE SEPARATE POWER AMP WAS PUTTING OUT! I mean everything was better on the little 125 watt stereo amp. The bass snap and body were light years better, the soundstage sounded 3 dimmensional (instead of 2D), the sound was musical, alive, and extended!...not to mention way better midrane! Anyway, in a word, it sounded very good, compared to not so hot from the receivers amps!! Basically, we're talking about Haggendas sound quality (separates approach), vs. Vons plain vanilla sound quality!...and that's an understatement, really!
I've heard just about all receivers, including selling and installing the Denon AVR5800's, and can say with out hesitation, that No receiver is really all that special sounding on it's own, and is almost alway's sonicallly betterd by separates (even using a clean receiver, plus moderate power amp(s)!).
Actually, you can buy a new/used Classe SSP25 or 30 for around $1300-$1500 price range (with superior sonics all around, and dirrect analog bypass for all inputs a plus!), then add a new/used very very good quality multi channel amp for around the same money or less!!!!...and have way way better sound in all area's! Yeah, you'll need some interconnects, but it's way worth it!...trust me!
If someone were going to give me around $2500 or so, to by a surround sound source and power amp, I wouldn't even hessitate, not for a second, to buy a separate pre/pro and power amp combo!!!...every time!...every time!
Unless you had a limited budget of maybe $1500 total for a receiver or such, and I was using "powered" speakers with built in amps for the bass, then maybe I could see buying a receiver (powered speakers do better with lower powerd receivers then non powered speaekers, either full range or monitors). However, you will not expect anything nice or special with those fairly demanding Logans, using that (or any) surround sound receiver!
Having worked in 4 high-end audio salons, 1 audio chain store, having built and engineered exotic custom home theaters, and having been around high-end audio since I was 13 (now much older...by a lot), I can safely say that those decent enough speakers deserve some quality separates!!! You'll be cheating you're auditory senses, and other's, by not doing so!
Seriously, unless you need a zillion inputs, in which case I'd find a lower priced receiver that has the inputs you need, then add a dedicated combo of multi channel, or stereo power amps!
Summing...I suggest, depending on input needs, a used/new Classe SSP25 at around $1400 average. Then add maybe a used/new ATI 150X5 or Acurus 200X5 (very good choice matchs) for around $1000-1200 price point. Add some cables, and your up to around $2800 (close to price of Denon, but way way way better sound!...way better! Sure you can get some little surround sound receiver, like the Marantz SR7200, with 6.1 capability and outputs (I think), Dolby Pro Logic II, DTS/DD, 24bit/192khz dac's, very clean preamp section for the $, and only spend around $800 range, then add amps, and your stll way better off!!!
Anyway, the only way I'd select the receivers, using pre-out's, is if you need all the features and in's/out's, and can't spend the $ for a more price/less feature laden pre/pro! (which often sounds better for a little more money). Anyway, it's all good (*some are just "gooder" than others)...and have fun with your endevor! |
Slightly off your target question but I am using the Denon 5800 as a processor only and using a Cinema Grand Signature amp as outboard power and I love the results. This will drive the high enders crazy but I got rid of a Proceed AVP to go to the Denon piece. This is a hobby so I said what the heck and tried this combo with super results. |
There is no receiver on this earth that can effectively drive Martin-Logan speakers. Trust me, I tried with the more efficient SL-3s. Now use a Cinepro 36se gold with CLS IIz in the front and the SL-3s in the rear -- heaven. |
I'd find it hard to justify the use of a receiver with the ML's. I'm using the Aerius and the Cinema with Maggies for the rear, and once had to (for a short time thankfully) use my old Yamaha DSP A3090 - nasty! If you're going to add the Cinema and Scripts, the load on the receiver will be intense, and the sound quality will be dismal compared to the separates available at the same, or lower price. For less than the Denon I bought a demo Acurus Act3 with bass management and an Anthem MCA-5 - nice combo, and it drives the ML / Maggie combination without complaint.
Also note that receivers aren't worth 1/2 price when you liberate them from the store, and two years from now, if you can get 1/4 what you paid you'll be lucky (the 3090 originally was $3k, I bought it at model end for $1.5k, and couldn't sell it for $450 two years later! - I finally traded it for the Maggies) - good separates are always in demand!
Good luck and happy listening! |
I own the ml aerius i. As mentioned above, don't waste your money on the denon. If you can't afford the seperates, then buy yourself a pioneer elite w/pre outs(about $600) or better yet get the rotel w/pre outs. You will eventually want seperates. And if your going for the ultimate in both stereo/ht, it gets expensive to do it right. I had the pioneer elite receiver and then I bought a b&k 3channel amp($350 used), for the front(aerius i/cinerma), big change. After that I bought a bryston 3bst for the front two channels and used the b&k amp for rear and center. Sound just kept getting better. I sold the pioneer for a lexicon dc-1. Then sold the bryston to buy a used bat vk-200(1800.00 used). Wow, incredible sound. But for true, perfect stereo I will eventually add the bat vk 3i(used around $1200) which has a pass thru, so i can use the 3i for stereo and the dc-1 for ht. 3i/vk200 and aerius i, is an incredible combo(match made in heaven). cables are transparent(their low end cables). well go luck, pete |
Hi,
I have the ML SL3's for the frontd and about to purchase Scenerio's for rear and Cinema for center. I just audiotioned the Rotel RMB1075 amp and Rotel RSP976 pre-processor at a local dealer with these speakers...outstanding sound and considerably less than the Denon5800. Rotel also has a 5 year parts AND labor warranty. Most dealers will discount this line (although not much, maybe 10 -15%). Stay clear of receivers...they won't do your ML's justice!!! |
My advice? If you are going to do it, JUST DO IT! wait, that's been taken by somebody, hasn't it?
Forget receivers now, they are a thing of your audio past - Don't look back! You are ready for the world of separate components and exceptional sound. Accept no less, my friend... |
I had alot of diffrent high end components, but boy when i got the 5800 , it was awesome! looking forward to the 5803.
i cant belive what a fine piece Denon had made. it extremly powerful and clean. I would say it is the ulitmate all in one ht reciever made! btw I have my ML system tied in curently with a 5800 right now. |
The Denon will not drive impedance loads as low as most Martin Logans go. (1.5-2.5) The denon is not intended to drive loads lower than 6 ohms. You might get lucky at 4 ohms for a brief time but I would forget about Martin Logans with that combination. |
JC,
That's not true, before I bought my present 2/5 channel set up I had a Denon 2700, that drove 2 sequel's, a Logos, and 2 scripts in the rear. Never shut the receiver down once! wasn't real dynamic, but it worked. |
I stand corrected. I still maintain though that logans dip to around 1.5 to 2 ohms at about 20khz. If you call Martin Logan and ask them if a receiver rated at 6 ohm minimum load will "properly" drive their speakers to their maximum potential I think they might better satisfy your quest for knowledge. I do know Denon doesn't recommend loads at below 4 ohms because I own a Denon and even went to the manual last night to verify. This is a quote from the manual.
"Speakers with an impedance of from 6 to 16 ohms can be connected for use as front and center speakers"
"The protector circuit may be activated if the set is played for long periods of time at high voulmes when speakers with an impedance lower than the specified impedance are connected". |
I had an old Onkyo thx-919 and it also drove my logans, Sequel II's,Logos and Aerius as surrounds, as Statman stated, it worked It never shut down, but I did not realise how much better they could sound until I got my separates... |
Onkyo receivers actually are rated to be able to drive 4 ohm loads. Onkyo has much more current capability adn able to drive lower impedance load than Denon. Even my Yamaha will and is rated to drive 4ohm loads. |
Okay, I'll say it again, it works! I also was doubtful about what the manual said. Also, the newer Logans are much better when dipping down at the higher frequencies. A lot of people when referring to the "drop" are remembering the CLS's I never had a problem driving the ML's. You also have to remember that manual is written for the average Joe, who most likely does not know what impedance loads are. If I had not tried it myself, and followed only what the manual stated I would still be in doubt.
Vern |
I still maintain you are not hearing what the Logans are truly capable of. Because they don't shut down does not mean it is a good match. And I'm not referring to the origianl CLS. They dropped to .75 ohms. I have had Sequel, Sequel II, Quest, Request, ClS, CLS II, CLS Z etc. I have tried many amps. I don't think his question was regarding our debate of what the manual says. If you get them to work without shutting down that is great. I think most of the responses to the thread were that it would sound better not using a reciever and I will still maintain that position.
You your self stated it wasn't very dynamic but it worked. Hardly sounds like a ringing endorsement. In addition the NEW Scenario from Logan states impedance of 2 at 20Khz. Sounds pretty much like the range I gave in my previous thread. Glad it works for you but I don't believe many people including Martin Logan or Denon for that matter would say it is a great match. If Dansloane is only interested in it working and not shutting down then you are right it appears. |
Jc, I agree it's not the best route to go. I only used it temporarily until I went to my present system which is of course seperate components. I'm using a Levinson 335 for the front 2 channels and a B&K 7250 for the center and rears, and of course they blow the Denon away! I read the other posts. I was only referring to him being able to run the speakers. If it's affordable he needs to go to seperates. I'm not trying to debate you, I was just giving my opinion on that portion of the thread. |
|
I had Aeris I with a Marantz receiver. Pretty good, but I could get the Marantz to clip on extremely complex surround passages. Only once did it shut down. I than set up to Pre-out to Bryston 9bTHX. What an improvement. Now I have McIntosh MX 132 with Bryston. I really notice the difference on 2 Channel music now. |
You must try InnerSound ESL Amplifier. It's outstanding!
IMO no receiver will be able to handle the low impedance of the Aerius i and I may add that not all amplifiers will do so either.
I had B&K Reference 7250 5 ch amplifier and was very satisfied with its performance until I auditioned the InnerSound. The difference was incredible!!! I now use InnerSound ESL Amplifier to drive the Aerius and InnerSound Home Theater Amplifier to drive the cinema and scripts. Check out InnerSound's white paper in their web site. |
