I have been reading the above posts and F.Y.I. Tommy Horning said he never designed his speakers to be powered by push pull amps! |
Dev,
That's interesting because the Horning speakers are a 4 ohm load. Seemingly more towards push pull friendly than most SETs.
Charles, |
I believe the impedance does vary by specific model, also, I'm pretty sure the impedance of my Eufrodites are rated at 6ohm nominal (and is at least reasonably flat). It also produces pretty impressive SPL when placed close to the front wall and powered by a 3 watt 2a3 SET (Wright 3.5 mono). So, while most 'back horns' are clearly not in the same efficiency/sensitivity ballpark as the most efficient front horns, these speakers can work well with 2a3, and even 45 SET amps- at least, in less-than-huge rooms, or for less than floor shaking volume levels. Room placement and reflecting some of the midrange and bass off of the front wall seems to be the key to both proper tonal balance, and maximum efficiency. At least that's my experience here. Hope this helps. |
If the impedance curve is relatively flat that certainly is an asset. Generally speaking S ET amplifiers like to see a higher speaker ohm impedance. Driven very successfully with 3 watt amplifiers does attest to its easy to drive capabilities. |
Take these factors into account:
High sensitivity.
No crossover in the Eufrodite.
Complex internal horn structure takes impulse from all 10 drivers in the case of the Eufrodite.
What this means is that they should be used with the same type of amp used in their design and voicing (high quality SET, I believe). |
Well, that makes sense to me. I for one certainly don't need to be sold on the advantages and benefits of high-quality SET amplification. I'm hooked for life.
Thanks,
Charles, |
They are really nice speakers. I wonder how my old ones compare to the new model with the curved cabinets. |
Now we have the newly released version with the 16 brand new bass drivers that Tommy has been working of for some time, Tommy is very happy and said the results have been his long time dream.
Adding Tommy said these new drivers are "HEAVEN" and provides a substantial improvement from top to bottom including warmth and speed, provides the system with a much greater overall linearity.
Interesting indeed and he is currently working on his Statement Sati which should be released some time in the new future.
Charles1dad what does your current system consist of,you now use Tron amplification correct - ya the info I provided about push-pull was an actual reply I received from Tommy but in the end it's all really subjective. |
Dev,
I use the Coincident Frankenstein 300b SET and their DHT Line Stage.I have had these two components and the Coincident
speakers for nearly 6 years and just love them.
Charles, |
Charles1dad, ya I must have gotten your system mixed up with someone else's - thx for the clarification.
How much heat do your Franks throw off |
Bringing this thread back to life?
By a mere coincidence, I got on loan a pair of 300b monos from Tektron, a one man show outfit from Sicily. By all means in hi-fi terms, not an expensive amp.
The experience is beguiling.
Something like 7 watts output and half the size of any other amp I’ve tried here makes the finest music I’ve heard here, or maybe anywhere.
I’ve never considered myself a savvy audiophile, don’t know all the words to describe micro dynamics or such, but the music I hear from this setup is mesmerizing.
Current setup: AA La Fontaine to Nordost Valhalla to Tektron 300b monos to Kondo SPz to Eufrodites.
That’s all.
|
Amuseb1,
That sounds like a wonderful system you've put together. No doubt that it performs as beautifully as you describe. Your amplifier is another example of quality over quantity of power when matched with the right speakers. Congratulations to.
Charles, |
By the way how did your former Sati 520b amp compare to the current 300b SET? I know you also used a Spectral amplifier at one timewith these speakers.
Charles, |
Thanks Charles,
Sati is still here; it works fine and has of course more power than the little Tektrons but to my ears the tiny monos are faster, have more grunt, better dentition, better holographic presentation, less bass but one that doesn’t leave you wishing for more, more sparkle on the highs, much more texture on cords and such and what is very important to me, it plays stress less music that fils the room oh so gently so that even in really low volume levels the music just pulls you in.
Amps I’ve tried here with the Eufros: Spectral, Plinius SA103, ML 23.5, Lamm 2.1 (for a short session which was disappointing but hard to judge as was a mere afternoon).
All the above beast list didn’t make the Eufros sing to my ears as the Tektron do.
And I’m not sure they’re even burnt in and surly the Kondo cable isn’t.
It’s maybe fair to mention that in my living/listening room I’ve struggled a lot with bass overload of the Eufros, which could be causing many other issues with the Sati (and the other bass strong amps on the list) setup due to it’s abundance in this area and could be that the lighter on bass Tektron just solves it all by not going there; but again, there’s more than enough of it with it.
For me, the realization that we can make a system sing with so little power, so little electricity consumption, so little heat, so small budget, so little real estate, etc is an inspirational revelation.
So in love with 300b power, I’m contemplating on making a move on a pair o Franks MK2 which are said to be another hifi miracle, aren’t they?
Enjoy the last day of the Masters. |
Hello Amuseb1,
Thanks for your informative reply, I really understand and relate to what you are expressing. I believe that the most important and precious attributes of audio components is to allow engagement and connection with our music. If the emotional involvement is lacking then all other sonic parameters no matter how impressive (bass,high volume, imaging etc.) are irrelevant and inadequate. It seems the Tektron certainly fulfills and meets these vital requirements.
Regarding the Frankenstein MK II, it is a wonderful 300b SET amplifier. I haven't any idea if it is superior to your Tektron. I can only tell you that it excels at emotional engagement and communicating the soul and joy of music.
Regarding your Horning speakers I'll finally be able to hear them next week at an audio show in Chicago. I'm been curious to listen to this speaker for quite some time.
Charles, |
Hi Charles,
What you'll hear at the show is probably the Elipse version with the latest bass drivers.
I have the previous version.
Assuming Jeff will be in charge, please give him regards from Oren, aka Mark, from Paris... I'm sure that'll bring a smile to his face, and a good story to be told.
Would be interested to hear your impressions after the show...
I heard about the Franks from a couple of guys who are as well pure music lovers that spoke very highly of their emotional capabilities.
The only way to know how they perform in my setup is to have them here...
Regards. |
I'll pass your greetings along to Jeff.
Charles, |
charles1:
Have a great time at the Chicago Audio Show this coming weekend.
I hope you get a chance to hear the Synergistic Research Room Demonstrations. The new room treatment UEF panels will be demonstrated for the first time at this show. It will be interesting if you see any Elrog tubes being used, or for that matter any of the other premium tube brands.
David Pritchard |
I have the new Horning Eufrodite Ellipse mated with the Frankenstein 300b mk.2 amps and the pairing is fantastic. The Frank's drive the speakers with no problem in my pretty large room.
I also have a Pass Labs XA 30.8 amp which sounds nice but, the SET sounds much better!
Really enjoying the sound, pushes all my listening preferences buttons!
It should only get better with more break-in on the new speakers, cabling, Dac, and transport. |
Hi Joe,
Your comparison of the Pass XA 30.8 and Frankenstein is similar to another gon member who replaced his Pass integrated amplifier with the Frankenstein. On the other hand reviewers Jack Roberts and Srajan Ebean chose the XA30.8 over their former 300b SET amplifiers. Once again demonstrating the obvious subjective nature of it all. I think that the Pass amplifiers sound good but I'd prefer a high quality SET just as you do. I'm glad you were able to compare both fine amplifiers in your system, there's no better way.
I listened to the Eufrodite driven by the New Audio Frontiers 845 SET amplifier at Axpona this weekend. The speakers had upper bass emphasis /hump that could be room interactions. Overall this speaker is very good IMO. Tone and timbre as well as dynamics and musical pace /flow were exceptionally good. The presentation is live like and involving.
I can see the Frankenstein and Eufrodite being a wonderful match just as you describe. Congratulations Joe.
Charles, |
Joe,
I'm curious, which amplifier do you prefer regarding the Pass Labs XA 30.8 and your First Watt? I was interested in the First Watt at one time (particularly the S.I.T.) but came to the realization that the Frankenstein is going to be my permanent amplifier. As you say, it just pushed all the right buttons in my system.
Charles, |
Charles,
In my room I have no bass issues. The bass is fast, articulate, detailed, and is perfectly balanced with the mids and treble. The clarity of the notes and the performers technical intent are excellent.
I read that Hornings perform better with higher ceilings. I can see why with all those woofers and back horn how it can cause problems in some rooms.
Comparing the Pass XA 30.8 to FW J2, both are very good amps. The 30.8 is smoother (less fine grain) and I don't know how to put it in words but, it's foundation starts from the bass on up. While the J2 starts from the upper midrange on up.
Please don't misunderstand they are both very balanced amps, just feels that way. The 30.8 has a wider and deeper soundstage. The J2 has more air on top.
I can easily live with both amps.
Once I have more hours on everything, I'll put the 30.8 back in to compare to the Frank's. The SET as of now has more presence and liveliness, which I love.
The Frank's have more then enough power to drive my speakers effortlessly.
Joe |
Thanks Joe,
I definitely trust your judgment and ears. You have three amplifiers that are highly regarded and that's why I was very interested in your direct listening experiences with them. If I weren't so happy with my Coincident Total Eclipse II speakers the Hornings would be on my very short list of speaker possibilities.
Charles, |
