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Holographic Soundstage ?

I would like to share my observation and hopefully get some input from people who have the same interest.

My system consist of Wharfedale Opus 3 , Krell KRC-3 preamp, Krell KSA 150 amp, Chord Qutest DAC and a computer with JCAT USB EX running Roon/with LPSU from HDPlex.
I mainly like holographic soundstage and would be able to achieve a very good 3D soundstaging with my current Krell setup.
I decided to try out tube amp a couple days ago because I read through the internet and everybody told me that tube amp always have better holographic soundstage and 3D imaging comparing to SS amp.
So I order a Raven Blackhawk MK3 from Raven audio with 45 days home trial just to try it out. I was expecting a very holographic soundstage that will blow my Krell out of the water.
Well, I was so WRONG. The Krell combo actually has a deeper and wider soundstage comparing to the Raven.
The Raven also has some very weak bass comparing to the Krell which is more punchy and tonally rich textured bass.
I cannot understand why it happens. I am always under the impression that tube amp will always provide more holographic soundstage. Obviously, In my set up the Krell is superior when it come to 3 dimensionality.

I will keeping trying out the Raven Blackhawk in the next couple of weeks and if things are not improved. I am ready to return the Raven and perhaps trying out the other tube amps (or solid state amps) that can beat the Krell combo.

If any one has some idea of such a product, please let me know. I am looking for an upgrade right now.

128x128viethluu
audio-union's avatar
audio-union
179 posts
 
MillerCarbon is correct, wait for the system to settle down and the new items to break in. After 300 hours you will have a good idea of what to expect for performance in the future. Patience
tk21
237 posts
 
Here's one formula for a big soundstage with holographic imaging:

1. good recordings (ideally binaural, but good luck finding them for music you like)
2. highly directive (focused) loudspeakers, such as Sanders, JansZen, or some KEF models ... or, alternately, a combination of room treatments and effective placement of the speakers you already have
3. crosstalk-minimizing DSP software (BACCH or possibly HAF)

BACCH4Mac would cost you about $1K (plus the price of a Mac if you do not have one) for the "intro" version.  The effects can be quite dramatic (on some recordings more than others).  For example, a performer who seems to be playing out of your left loudspeaker, pre-BACCH, might seem to be playing several feet to the left of the loudspeaker, post-BACCH. The developer (a physics professor at Princeton U.) claims that these effects result without otherwise coloring the sound signature. A trade-off is that the effect mostly occurs only within a very narrow sweet spot (which can be a show-stopper for some people.)

Short of DSP software, I would think your biggest bang for the buck comes first from proper speaker setup (which can be cost-free) then room treatment. Then gradually building up a library of excellent recordings.

purplegoose
11 posts
 
I found my tube amp performed much better once I got a power conditioner. I have horn speakers which helps with the imaging as well . Your tube amp might be underpowered  for the efficiency of your speakers this might explain lack of bass. I'd try the power conditioner I got one for like 600$ that made a world of difference. 
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mikekollar's avatar
mikekollar
42 posts
 
You want a nice holographic soundstage? Here is what I do for my listening position...... you will never do this and any audiophile snob reading this will pan it for sure..... but if its soundstage you want, as far as I am concerned, no amount of money on just the right tube amp or Tannoy this or Helmholtz that, will give you an incredible, speaker disappearing soundstage than the following...... ready? Go on to ebay and spend the $150 to $200 on a vintage 1980's Carver C9 Sonic hologram generator and introduce THAT into your system. My 20k 2 channel system loves it and I consider this the most important piece on my rack. There, I said it, now don't do it because you will be laughed at for thinking you could achieve this without spending 5k somewhere and especially because you are using something old and used from the 1980's and how dare I suggest something that is not refined and tweaked to todays standards.....  fine........ you are missing out on what you are looking for. It is amazing but you wont spend the $150 to find out. 
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