Holographic Soundstage ?


I would like to share my observation and hopefully get some input from people who have the same interest.

My system consist of Wharfedale Opus 3 , Krell KRC-3 preamp, Krell KSA 150 amp, Chord Qutest DAC and a computer with JCAT USB EX running Roon/with LPSU from HDPlex.
I mainly like holographic soundstage and would be able to achieve a very good 3D soundstaging with my current Krell setup.
I decided to try out tube amp a couple days ago because I read through the internet and everybody told me that tube amp always have better holographic soundstage and 3D imaging comparing to SS amp.
So I order a Raven Blackhawk MK3 from Raven audio with 45 days home trial just to try it out. I was expecting a very holographic soundstage that will blow my Krell out of the water.
Well, I was so WRONG. The Krell combo actually has a deeper and wider soundstage comparing to the Raven.
The Raven also has some very weak bass comparing to the Krell which is more punchy and tonally rich textured bass.
I cannot understand why it happens. I am always under the impression that tube amp will always provide more holographic soundstage. Obviously, In my set up the Krell is superior when it come to 3 dimensionality.

I will keeping trying out the Raven Blackhawk in the next couple of weeks and if things are not improved. I am ready to return the Raven and perhaps trying out the other tube amps (or solid state amps) that can beat the Krell combo.

If any one has some idea of such a product, please let me know. I am looking for an upgrade right now.

128x128viethluu

Showing 3 responses by mikekollar

You just described my experience with the Carver C9 perfectly (except for the part about finding a rare recording where it does not sound good; havent found that yet), all the way down to owning a backup. I own 2 backups for the same reason. me main one has been re-capped refurbished by a gut in the midwest somewhere that does this.

I am very intriqued by the BSG unit and will look it up. We are definately on the same page. Defined instrumentation to the left and right of the speakers and everything in between including an untouched center stage between the speakers is heaven for me.

Is the BSG unit using a phase type processing similar to the Bob Carver unit?
You want a nice holographic soundstage? Here is what I do for my listening position...... you will never do this and any audiophile snob reading this will pan it for sure..... but if its soundstage you want, as far as I am concerned, no amount of money on just the right tube amp or Tannoy this or Helmholtz that, will give you an incredible, speaker disappearing soundstage than the following...... ready? Go on to ebay and spend the $150 to $200 on a vintage 1980's Carver C9 Sonic hologram generator and introduce THAT into your system. My 20k 2 channel system loves it and I consider this the most important piece on my rack. There, I said it, now don't do it because you will be laughed at for thinking you could achieve this without spending 5k somewhere and especially because you are using something old and used from the 1980's and how dare I suggest something that is not refined and tweaked to todays standards.....  fine........ you are missing out on what you are looking for. It is amazing but you wont spend the $150 to find out. 
Interesting, I will have to look at these processors. What I can say about the carver c9 is this. My Emotiva pre amp has an external processor loop. That is where I have the c9 so it enables me to switch in and out from my listening position and your choice of words are exactly how I describe the c9. When it is turned off, the soundstage absolutely collapses. And when it is on, there is absolutely no degradation in sound quality, just a much larger soundstage that goes outside of the 2 speakers. To hear exact instruments and echoes and all, on the far left and right, with a vocal still dead center is amazing, and yes, the sweet spot, unfortunately, is only for one person, however, the effect is there for two people if one is sitting directly behind the other.

For me, it does not matter as critical listening is a very personal one to one relationship, at least in my household. What really blows me away is all the discussion about this amp or that, This dac or that, vinyl or digital, chasing with big bucks the next incremental little improvement; and non of it..... repeat NONE, has the sound quality enhancement and difference of the listening experience as the C9 (or similar apparently), and all of this for about $200 or less. (oh yeah, don't do it.... your Mcintosh would be offended.

I run my music from a node 2i into a mini dsp dac and Dirac Live processor then on to the c9 where we then go bi amped to a pair of 14K Legacy Focus XD towers. So its not like I have terrible stuff; its not the best, but better than most. It sounds amazing. And one other thing about this kind of processing.

 It's almost scary when a recording has sounds coming at you at 45 degrees away from the center channel. Literally straight in from the left and right. (try Madonna - Vogue for that one). So for my sound stage processor friends, I came across a recording that when used with the C9, I heard the largest soundstage of any recording ever and in a way that I have never heard before.

The artist, F.K.A. Twigs. The song, Pendulum. This song has sounds from a huge sound stage plus.... sounds moving back and forth above and behind my head. No recording has ever done this for me and it is mind blowing. It's weird, but listenable music, not my favorite, but whatever the recording engineer did on this track is freaky when it comes to listening with a carver c9 and I'm sure with your BSG. Literally, the sound is NOT coming from the speakers!!!!! Or so it seems. Check it out.