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High Sensitivity Speakers

Within the last year I purchased a Pass Labs XA 60.8 ... which I am pleased with.  It’s a great match with the rest of my system which includes Avant-garde Uno Gen 1 speakers (sorry about the hyphen but the spell check insists).  I like the speakers a lot but they are now 17 years on so I assume speaker technology has moved in quite a bit in thus time.  So as I considered new speaker alternatives I discovered that the Pass Labs 60.8 (69 w class A, 120w class A/B) are “underpowered” for a number of speaker brands.  I am not keen to trade my amp up but it’s an option.  So looking to upgrade speakers I an looking at Avant-garde Duo Gen 3.  Any input on other speaker brands that might be sensitive enough to match with the amps I currently have?  I live overseas so by brand choice is a bit limited to “well known” brands.  My system: SME 20/2 tt, Tom Evans The Groove phono preamp, Brooklyn + DAC, PS Audio 15 Power Plant, Joule Electra line preamp, 4 Rel 812 subs, room size 30’x21’x10’ ceiling), assorted decent power cables and interconnects.
chilli42

Showing 3 responses by atmasphere

atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,640 posts
 
I've tried a myriad of combinations placing my subs most everywhere else, but the symmetrical option has always prevailed; things simply fall into place sonically. Having an array of direct radiating subs around you can certainly envelope one with bass in a literal sense, but even a pair of horn subs 'envelope' in a way quite differently. The proof in the eating of the pudding, as they say.
My speakers are flat to 20 Hz and for many years I have preferred speakers that allowed one amp to run the entire range. This was in part due to the fact that our amps are full power to 2Hz- much lower than most tube amps, and as a result play bass better because there is no phase shift in the audio band to mess with impact.


But when I've encountered standing waves (as I often have doing audio shows) its made no difference that my speakers go that low or are easy to drive. So my existing speakers are part of my distributed bass array, since the woofers cross over at 500Hz. That sorts out the bass nicely. But as you point out, integration is key; to that end the side/rear subs have to cross over below 80Hz so as to not attract attention to themselves.



atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,640 posts
 
@phusis Just to be clear, nowhere did I state that
What’s more, "flabby" and "slow" bass as an antithesis to "tight" is hardly a compelling trait as something associated with natural bass.
I simply pointed out that overdamped speakers often results in a phenomena known as 'tight bass'. I've heard it in stereos many times but have yet to encounter it in the real world.
One of the core characteristics of horn-loaded bass is exactly that: presence, and one that is wholly enveloping in a way the direct radiating bass, distributed array or not, won’t achieve in a similar fashion.
Horn loaded bass is a rare thing to hear- on account of needing a bass horn that is very long- 20 feet or more. Even audiophiles with a relatively wide open budget may find such size a bit daunting! But the issue that isn't solved by any bass system that originates in front of the listener is standing waves. Standing waves can't be solved by room correction either; if there is a standing wave causing a lack of bass at a certain frequency at the listening chair, you can put as much power as you like into it without significant change. But if you employ a distributed bass array the standing wave is corrected and you will have 'wholly enveloping' bass.

atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,640 posts
 
After 15 yrs, speaker technology is still almost the same, although there may have been some advances in implementation brought about by research.
Well usually research is how advances are made :)

I'm a fan of the Classic Audio Loudspeakers and have a set of T-3s. They are 16 ohms, 98dB and go flat to 20Hz.  The midrange driver is field coil powered for less dynamic compression and employs a beryllium diaphragm with a Kapton suspension. Its first breakup is at 35KHz; as a result the speaker is detailed, fast and smooth.

 Also the bass got flabby/slow/less present.
@chilli42  One thing to be careful about in the bass department: 'tight' bass is a coloration brought on by the amplifier having excess damping of the woofer(s). Many audiophiles like it, but out in the real world its a very difficult thing to encounter! Another issue is standing wave; the most elegant solution I've seen is the use of a Distributed Bass Array which may have been what you were trying with the Rels. Did you place the Rels asymmetrically in your listening room?




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