I didn't see any mention of the relatively new NAD M22 amp (using a variation Hypex NC400 NCore modules). It's had some favorable reviews even compared to amps costing 3x as much. Any experience here?
I had a Bel Canto EVO up til about 5 years ago - I preferred it in my system to my other class A and A/B amps but I never had a $10,000 amp in my system of A or A/B. I recently bought the NAD M22 and am in process of putting everything together but in a short listen I preferred it to my Adcom GFA555II (the one designed by Nelson Pass), which I thought was excellent. I bought the NAD here second hand so it is broken in. I'm picking up an Auralic Vega today and am excited to hear the combination of it, my NAD amp, Rougue (tube) preamp, and some digital files. |
dave b - I noticed that Bluesound is a sister company of NAD. I put the Auralic Vega in my system with the NAD M22 yesterday- the sound I'm hearing is quite alarming (in a good way). The Auralic needs another 80 hours of break in to boot. Quietest amp I've ever had too. Other than the D-Class amps and the Adcom I mentioned in my previous posts I also had used a very well regarded ATI Class A amp. It got mostly rave ratings except in the portability category (86 pounds!). I recently visited their page and guess what - they are now making and lauding Class D amplification. |
I'd like to mention too that I use Class D amplification in my vehicle system (Alpine) and the sound is far superior to that of the McIntosh amplifier I used about ten years ago. I use it with an Alpine sound processor, 2 pairs of component speakers (Diamond Hex and Focal) and I get a lot of "wow"'s when people hear my system, which is relatively inexpensive. I admit the Alpine sound processor makes a big difference and I didn't have it my system with my Mac. The McIntosh was loud and clear but had nowhere near the detail and clarity of the Alpine.
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I couldn't get rid of my Emotiva preamp fast enough - made my ears almost bleed. I would listen to a $200 1970s Technics receiver before I would own Emotiva separates. You've made a good point. |
OK a quite a few of us here think that Class D may have already surpassed Class A/B in at least a few instances. It seems that the people critical of Class D amps haven't given them a fair shake/listen (and people please stop referring to them as 'digital amps' as they are not in any way way such). D class has come a long ways in the past 5 years. I liked some characteristics of D Class back then - great high frequency reproduction/detail but I felt a lack of imaging and sound-stage. That has changed with my NAD M22. Not fair to criticize it (Class D) unless you've recently checked it out (which I doubt many of its critics have).
As far as vinyl - I have a small record shop within an antique/collectibles shop I own in S. Jersey and I am doing more than quite well selling vinyl to both Millennials and Baby Boomers. Maybe it lasts, maybe not but vinyl is HOT right now and has been for the 3 years I've been doing this. My shop is small and quite diversified and we do well but vinyl is our biggest draw. I specialize in Classic 60s-80s rock in VG+ or better condition and it's cool to see the following we have now in less than six months in business. |
@grannyring
The amp you are referring to has digital input but Class D is not 'digital'. I didn't read too much about the company but I assume that means that the amp has a DAC. At some point before your speakers there has to be a conversion to analogue. Somebody correct me if I am wrong. |
@uberwaltz
I can't keep Pink Floyd records in stock, especially DSOTM - in nice condition they generally fetch between $30 and $75. |
@mitch2
I meant the more recent incarnations of Class D - in my post I mentioned that I think they have come a long ways in past few years, especially with the NAD I am now using.
On another subject I was recently reading an article about Bob Carver and the Stereophile amp challenge. He was able to exactly reproduce the sound of $7,000.00+ tube amplifiers in a modified $700.00 SS amp without knowing the amp he was cloning - it was a pair Conrad-Johnson Premier Twelves (I am simplifying things - google as it's a good read). I picked up one of his production models recently (M-1.0t) and have yet to listen to it (I have low expectations...but) |
@bcgator
I think we in the lunatic minority are much more prevalent in this thread than has been in the past. Rowland, Cary, ATI to name just a few high end companies seem to be developing (at least some) of their amps using D Class modules. They wouldn't be doing that if Class
D wasn't good. Takes a while to break a stigma but I think it's getting there. |
@blackfly
Class D amps have come a long long way since their inception when they were used solely as sub amps. I'll argue that they don't have a long way to go as many of us in this thread feel they are equal if not superior to the Class A and A/B amps we've used, some very expensive. I can almost guarantee that your 30 year old amps have nowhere near the low noise floor, damping factor, etc. of the NAD M22. Amplification of sound is still science and people are starting to refer to Class D as possible near perfect amplification. The soundstage and imaging of this amp in my setup is off the charts - it's not a cheap amp at $3000.00. My 2 little KEF LS50 speakers have disappeared from my room. I think you need to take another listen.
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blackfly
I did read your post before responding. You said Class D "has a longs ways to go..." (without mentioning any Class D amps that you have listened to). I gave my opinion that it doesn't have a long way to go and in previous posts compared it to some high end amplifiers I've owned, including a Class A ATI amplifier that cost over $2000.00, 20 years ago.
You also said "go out and directly compare it to a Luxman M 800, or Accuphase A 200. No Dice." That statement is illogical and even a little arrogant since you are judging the Luxman and the Accuphase against the NAD without listening to the NAD. You make blanket statements as to why Class A has to be the best and D Class basically sucks. From your bold statements, I'm sure an ATI without it's fancy chassis and lacking an inflated price tag would never be welcome in your home.
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Good thread but people keep bashing Class D with generalities. I haven't read a D-basher here yet that mentions which high end Class D amps they've listened to that pale in comparison to their Class A or A/B amps. For instance - Neal, I'd be interested to know which
recent Class D amps have you heard that are so bad? I have to doubt you've heard the new NAD stuff and if you have and still grade it a "D", then I'd have to say you're fibbing. It is not only garnering acclaim in every review I've read but I own one and have compared it to both a tube amplifier and a very well regarded Class A amp (ATI) and it kinda blows them away in most regards. |
Mitch - I did read your previous post and my last post isn't intended for you at all as you did in fact mention some Class D amps that you listened to and compared (you are one of the very few to mention names and a comparison). I respect that you prefer amp A vs. amp B, whatever the amp may be. My point was intended for the vast majority of posters here that criticize Class D without citing a direct comparison or naming the Class D amps that they feel sound so awful. I again mention that Class D has evolved greatly in the past 2-3 years so to compare a 5-10 year old Class D amp to what is presently out there isn't a fair comparison (I am not referring to your comparison). I've 'called out' several 'basher' posters by asking what Class D amps they've listened to and have yet to hear a response. |
I think the 'perfect' amp should 'sound' like an exact performance of what is being amplified with zero distortion. Class D is getting there. How far has class A really evolved over the past 20 years? A lot of people posting here claim their 20 year old amps sound better than anything Class D - most still haven't indicated what make/model 'inferior' Class D amps they have recently listened to as comparison - which makes their claims irrelevant. Further, if a company has a 'signature' sound to their amp/equipment then inherently it is not a correct reproduction of the source no matter how good it sounds. Put a perfect amp on a good source (which includes preamplification) with good speakers and imaging and sound-stage are going to take care of themselves. Maybe reviewers will eventually stop using adjectives like 'warm', 'cold', 'fast', 'thin' when reviewing amplifiers - those adjectives could be then used towards source material |
@speeddeacon
'While I hope that the cheaper amps will not outperform or even remotely equal the sonics of their more expensive brethren...' I don't understand why you would say that and you better get to much better than 80% if you are going to spend that kind of money.
My dream is that a cheap amp outperforms and supercedes any amp no matter the price.
And you can see, all this discussion is really not off-post as the Class A audiosnobs have already stated that Class D is vastly inferior (without citing specific direct comparisons) ...so those people will continue to pay whatever for those amps and thus the prices will NOT plummet. Part of being an audiosnob is the appearance of their amp BTW - gotta have that 3/4 inch thick machined faceplate with fancy logo. Remember though that's not just for appearance, that makes their amp sound much better due to the distortion reducing affect and the overall improvement to imaging and soundstage. |
I've been on Audiogon for many years and have made numerous other posts in the past on different subjects - if I remember Audiogon went through some major changes in the past few years.
I (again state) that I find it interesting that numerous people owning Class A amplifiers bash Class D (in this thread) without indicating what (Class D) they've listened to. I've made that point several times to no meaningful response. I've never busted on anyone for owning Class A - my point is simply that if you are going to say something is better than something else it would help if you've listened to the something else and if you haven't your opinion is therefore not valid. Analogy - I think apples are great but oranges suck and BTW I've never eaten an orange. Maybe now you understand the point of my 16 posts. When I get time I'm going to read through this entire post and list the quotes I think are not credible and why I think such. |
P.S. I checked my status and I have positive feedback on Audiogon back to 2008 so I've been a member of this community at least that long. |
