Help me mod my tube amp


Hi all,

I'm interested in modifying my Prima Luna Dialogue 4 amp. The amp is about 15 years old and still sounds pretty good. But in the past I've had fun modding preamps and speakers and seeing what can be improved, so I'd like to try improving the SQ of this amp. I haven't modded an amp before, so I open to suggestions about capacitor upgrades or anything else. You can see a picture of the internals of the amp here. This amp resides in a secondary system, which is:

Mac mini --> Benchmark Dac3 --> Prima Luna Dialogue 4 amp --> Dali Phantom S-180 speakers + Rhythmik F12G-SE-PEQ subwoofer (via high level speaker input)

Power: dedicated line --> Maestro outlet --> Shunyata Hydra 8 power conditioner. Cables are Shunyata and DH Labs.

Current tube configuration in Prima Luna amp: GE Military stock 12AU7, Gold Lion 12X7, Tung Sol KT120

These days, I tend to like things on the slightly warm side of neutral. I appreciate increased resolution, but not at the expense of organic tonality and musicality. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Bryon

 

bryoncunningham

A mod is a change to the circuit itself, an upgrade is a substitution of better sounding parts of like value, and a restoration is a return to original condition using original parts.

I start with the power supply, high speed rectifiers, film bypass of electrolytic caps, better cord and internal wires, from there move into coupling caps, screen stability resistors and PIV diodes on any tube rectifiers. Enjoy.

Thanks everyone for the input so far. Several people suggested new tubes. As is probably obvious, I am pretty naive about tubes and open to your suggestions.

 

knotscottt: Yes, I run the amp in triode exclusively. I do not know whether the amp can use 12BH7a's rather than 12AU7's. I will try to find out.

russ69: I started using KT 120's all the way back when I bought the amp because I was coming from solid state and I was accustomed to bigger dynamics than the stock tubes provided. But I gather from your comment that KT 120's may be overkill?

johnss, sns, and viridian: Thank you for your specific recommendations. I will investigate options for upgrading each of the things you mentioned.

 

Bryon

 

You have some very good suggestions so far. Definitely agree that film caps, resistors and power supply mods yield very nice results. I would add to that changing your connections for KLE RCA plugs and binding posts and change the signal wire to high quality, something like VH Audio in airlock dielectric. Surprisingly lots of signal quality lost in those parts and are easy upgrades.

As for other tube options, of the EL34 compatible ones PSVane EL34PH are the best I've found for good detail and 3 dimensionality while still keeping a good snap to dynamics.

Hi , it looks like the conversation has split into 2 directions. One about modding your amp, and the other regarding tube rolling. I don’t have your amp, but here’s my thoughts. Better signal tubes will improve the SQ, but they’re expensive and you can go a couple of directions, clarity Vs softness. This is a generalization and usually comes down to Mullard Vs Telefunken. Again this is a generalized comment and it comes down to what you like and you have to experiment with tubes that are expensive. Now to power tubes, it’s midrange lushness Vs bass. So EL 34 Vs KT 120, and everything in between. Mentioned above are SED winged C tubes. They are hard to find and they are some of my favorites. The Winged C 6550’s are the BEST overall tube for the EL 34 midrange and KT 120 bass I’ve ever used. But that’s just my opinion with my gear in my living room and YMMV. Considering what you have, the above mentioned GL KT 77’s are a great tube if you don’t mind giving up a little low end. That being said the two 12AX’s are the first I’d try. Then the 12AU7’s after that. Then experiment with the power tubes. Now to your actual question, again I don’t have a Prima Luna. However I do have tube amps with SS rectification like you. I just had my mono blocks upgraded by the manufacturer. They replaced the resistors with Takman and upgraded the capacitors to higher quality. In addition to that they added MORE capacitance by strapping extra power capacitors onto the boards. Then with SS rectification they changed the diodes to Hexfreds. So I would find someone that has modded that exact amp and get direction on the values and brands of the items needed and go for it. However if you’re not experienced at desoldering and  soldering, without cooking parts on a tight circuit board then you could have it done. FWIT I grew up with Dynaco stuff and built a few items. I also ruined a couple items based on lack of skill. I hope my ramble provided some guidance considering most people on this site know more than I do. Happy Listening, Mike B. 

Thanks, nlitworld, for those additional suggestions. I will check out the binding posts and wire you mentioned.

 

Mike B-- Thanks for your observation about the different directions this thread has taken. Both kinds of input are valuable to me. I've used Mullards (can't remember which ones) for signal tubes in the past with this amp and liked them. I think when it came time to replace them, I cheaped out. But I've been taking more of an interest in this secondary system lately, as I spend a lot of time in that room. So I will rethink my former frugality. To my knowledge, I have never heard Winged C 6550's. Do you have the same positive opinion about other 6550's?

Thanks also, Mike B, for the suggestions regarding resistors and capacitors. I have been internet researching potential replacements. Although I have modified preamps and speakers myself in the past, I am going to hire someone to do these modifications.