Davey,I cannot tell you,for sure.But it is a CLEAR(in two systems)improvement over the standard 8.Why not call Jeff,and ask him? |
Daveyf - My room now is 25'5" feet by 18'11". When I bought the G's, it was more like 16'X12' and yes, they sounded wonderful there. The Kharmas, crossed over to a pair of Tact subwoofers anywhere between 75 and 200 Hz can reach impressive SPL's in the new room (the Tact subs have a pair of very quick, large drivers each). Agree the treble can be overdone, especially if the speakers are toed in (Kharma recommends nil toe in). Associated equipment makes a differece as well. I use triode tube amps, and just moved to the Kubala Sosna Emotion speaker cable (I used AQ Dragon SE with the G's, and tried that as well as Valhalla with the Kharmas, but the Kubalas realy helped flesh out the sound) |
I heard a lot of the speakers you are mentioning (the Guarnieri, Stradivari, WP8, MAXX2, Schweikert VR9SE...) but not the Kharma. For my taste, the Mini beat them all (except for the visual aspect, for which the Sonus Faber cannot be beaten). In particular I loved their huge imaging (close your eyes and you think you are listening to a huge speaker set), their linearity and analytic side. If you have the right upstream components, you will feel like you are "there" Even if they don't go really below 40Hz, I preferred also the ported bass (much cleaner and tighter than all vented competitors). I listened to them driven by a ARC REF3-REF610, in a small room. Was a perfect combination. If your room is small, need to have enough absorbent on the walls as they radiate quite a lot of energy.
The Mini were originally not on my shopping list (was rather planning to buy a much bigger speaker) but I listened to them by chance and was so blown away that I ordered one pair
For the moment, I don't plan to use them with subwoofers (not much instruments playing below 40hz if you listen mainly to jazz and classical). Out of curiosity, Alexc, which subs were used in your listening session of the mini? (besides the Wilson Benesch Torus, I cannot imagine a sub fast enough to integrate properly with the woofer of the Mini)
PS: Current price is $22k. It goes up to $26,400 as of January 1st
PS2: the upper model in the Magico range (the Tower, for twice the price of the mini) will not be ready on time for CES |
sirspeedy, does the 8t mod also change the power supply away from the choke? I have heard the newer power supply, and I think that it is in fact a downgrade over the choke supply.( more noise artifacts and seemingly less inner detail)
If it does not,an increase in detail and air would be well welcomed. Thanks for the advise. |
Davey,if you want a new improved level of performance,consider updating your amp,to the 8t(easily done at the factory.I had my amp done(from 8 to 8t)as did a friend.Big improvement in detail and air.Not too costly either. |
The TAS just named the Mini as product of the year |
Alexc, I would concur with everything you say, but, in a small/smaller room, I think the G's are a little more involving than the Kharma's. In a larger room, I am sure the G's cannot move enough air to present orchestral music or big band as well. I noticed in my room that the Kharma's had a slight hardness to the treble compared to the G's and actually the image focus was less well portrayed/defined. True, I listen to a lot of jazz and blues and no real rock or big band. On rock or more power music, I think you have to have speakers that can move a good amount of air, which frankly IMHO requires large drivers; and really the bigger the better.
The G's are small monitors in a way, so they are superb on voice and jazz and small ensembles. Very hard to beat in this area in a small/smaller room( I actually have not heard their better in this regard, including the Kharma's and the Mini's). |
Iv'e only heard the Magicos' at CES/THESHOW when used to demonstrate mid to lower-high priced equiptment. The speakers always seemed to me to be overly analytical and were not a good match for lesser equiptment. I should probably say my personal tastes do not favor the Wilson's either. Loved the Kharma's but lower bass always seemed a bit thin. For lusher more romantic sound the Zingali's are good while still offering decent resolution at a little less money. Have not heard the new Sonus Faber. Only other speaker that comes to mind at this lofty price range is Shahinian which Iv'e only briefly heard. Mike |
I owned the Guarneri's for ~ 5 years, and traded them for Kharma 3.2 CRMs. I also had the opportunity to hear the Magico Mini's for several hours perfectly set up with absolutely top notch cables and electronics in a small room. I do love the G's and was very happy with their sound for a long time. Depending on what you listen to, the G's can be the perfect speaker. They excel at jazz, vocals, chamber music, and so on...but they dont do justice to big bands, symphonic orchestras, and rock. Even using a pair of Tact subwoofers and cutting the G's off at 200 Hz, they could still choke when fed too much "stuff" (Ellington, Basie, Mahler, etc). The Kharma's, with the same associated equipment, seem to be better at imaging/soundstaging than the G's, are great at vocal/acoustic music (though not as seductive/lush as the G's), and they can handle the bigger stuff pretty well. The soundstage on big band and orchestral music is definitely better - wider, taller , deeper , and more realistic than the G's (though aals still nowhere ear close to the real thing!) The Mini's are different from the G's and the Kharmas. To my ears, they do the macro and micro dynamics thing better than either the G's or the K's and are more accurate/linear. I liked the, a lot, but then again they were paired with $ 20 K worth of subwoofers, and 2-3 X times that in cables alone in the system I heard...so hard to say. Based on personal experience, I would pick the Kharma's over the original G's ..and would love to take the Mini's home for a spin in my system to see how they fare vs the Kharma's. I think the Mini's woiud be better IF you have a absolutely the best components/cables feeding them,and a great pair of subs to hand the bottom octave, but the Kharma's might be easier to love in a more "reasonable" system (though they need subs as well) |
Pgulrich,
That was the impression that I had also when I compared the Guarneri's to the Mini's.
The Mini's are good but IMHO the G's are better.
As far as cosmetics go, I guess that is a personal choice, but for me also the G's are in a different league. |
I just heard the Magico's at a local dealer driven by Thor monoblocks and was quite underwhelmed considering the price tag. I would not even think of trading up my Guarneri's for Mini's. Also, when you see the Magico in person, it looks "plump" and somehow unattractive. Certainly poses no cosmetic competition to Sonus Faber. The Mini's sound good compared to many speakers, just not good enough to make me anxious to write that check for $22K. |
Drubin,
I read Henryhk's review of the Magico's. However, I am more interested in hearing from someone who actually owns the speakers. In a dealer setting, speakers are not usually at their best and with the Mini's, I am wandering if they will also work in a smaller room. Dealer's rooms are usually not that small.
Also, last I heard the Mini's were priced at $27K.Not sure if that is suggested retail or ? |
Take a look at Henryhk's discussion of his Magico audition, which appears in his virtual system. |
the magicos are very impressive... |
I believe they are $20K while the Wilsons are $28K. |
