Hmmmm, W, and H are both used by GR. They are good from 20-250hz + or - 3 db. I use them at around 60 and below, if at all.
Good yes, the best no. WHY. Well come to find out the servo amp works because of a program that written by "whoever". If whoever, wrote the program could predict all the overshoot cone issues it would be fine, BUT they can't. The system is faster than accelerometer, servo systems, but nowhere near as accurate.
The older accelerometer, Bass Bins were the BOMB, close to 3 times the price too.. You get what you pay for.. OB is tough, then ADD servo...
Sure looks good though...
Regards |
@oldhvymec - are you saying that the measurements the amp module are fed coming back from the subs are inaccurate?
I do know what overshoot is, and there's no predictive modelling for this scenario that I am aware of, and can't even dream of how it could work.
Who makes a better servo driver combination please? I looked up Bass Bins, many manufacturers sold a product by that name, which specifically are you talking about?
I have a Tymphany LAT and I like what it does.
PS. all the best with your procedure mate - thanks for the reply in here.
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...and I thank you both, esp. rix....nice link.😉👍
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@asvjerry - have you heard riploles?
I am probably leaning towards a pair of sealed servo subs.
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rixthetrick... Happy 9/11...if that's even vaguely applicable to to wish upon us all....:(
No, I've not heard one IRL....but I've noticed the Tymphany LAT in my drilling about, and have considered a distributed sub array as an upgrade towards in the future...
That, and the means and methods of woodworking @ my fingertips with the drawings and specs within the 'jazzman' link you posted, caught my interest. 😊 I've a pair of 12" that have no particular pedigree but are available for fooling about with, the hardware noted in those plans, and the means of x-overing in all manner of fashions.
...pretty much consists of labor and MDF...even the latter I have 'on the shelf', the former a matter of debate amongst my spouse and employees. *LOL*
It's been forever since I've listened to any servo LF items, and they were rare to begin with...the complexity of the approach at the time made them a real commitment to those interested....
The LAT reminded me of the ESS Transar I actually got to heard long ago and far away, back in SF at an audio show that didn't repeat itself despite what seemed a good attendance. The tech didn't really live up to its' potential, which is mho of the early Ohm/Walsh omnis....dipole/omni fan that I am.
We're in a 'better era' for these means of approach, and the riploles intrigue me....ergo my thanks for the link..
What in particular do you enjoy about the LATs'?
Size, response, general 'fit' in your prefs?
Weather here in west NC is Brilliant today....Spring fever in the Fall, tra la lah....*L*
You have a good one as well, Jerry 👌
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Jerry, I am presuming you've worked with MDF and know that inhaling the fine dust is very much questionable for ones health? I was told it's the adhesives used in it that is the problem, and I'd guess US MDF and good old Aussie MDF are pretty much the same animal. Use a mask, I know by now, I'm used to wearing one (yes, a quip).
The LAT I used in my (almost dread saying it in here, eyes will roll) car. Yes I used a Tymphany LAT in my car's trunk (boot) and I liked that it went down pretty low without vibrating the frame of the car and muddying up what sound quality I could squeeze out of perhaps the worst listening room environment - a glass and metal cabin of a car.
There are those who have used them in stereo systems in listening rooms and there must be reasons why they are not longer manufactured and sold. I am aware of some of those reasons, and I will tell you that they are not a small enclosure solution if you want to get the most out of them.
IB Infinite Baffle, which in a car is a great option if you seal off behind the seats and use the whole trunk. And so they have been overtaken for small enclosure design by other drivers, unfortunately this is not well known.
It is because of the LAT I chose to build my single sub as an opposed twin driver setup, the drivers negate vibrations in the cabinet to some extent.
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*G* Good morning to you in the Down Under....;)
Yeah, hip to MDF...routes like butter, can be finished to whatever ones' predilections desire (lacquer finishes, anyone?), and will ruin your lungs if your 'inhaled distractions' haven't...
Masking is SOP here in the States for those with any rational amount of synapse in contact with each other, so my comments on unsocial distancing elsewhere are in force. My use of thinners and myriad other 'non-entertaining' Rx for an aortic valve & pacemaker require (nay, Demand) I do so unless alone with my dog & cats (2)....
Spouse is currently on a jobsite, so considering wearing one when we get about to doing 'the Wild Thang' is a potential, but kinda gets in the way of the mood, but...*shrug*...whatya say...*L*
A Tymphany in the trunk was my understanding of their app, so no surprise there, and no 'eye rolls', either. I'd thought of 4 in a distributed system in a listening space, but since they're N/A anymore...*tsk*
No induced rattling must be nice....I've thought that 'bassers' here, rattling all the hardware in their 'rides', ought to be in a routine of re-torquing all the bolts 'n screws within, less the vehicle exhibit an URD (Unplanned Rapid Disassembly) at the intersections...
"HEY! Your driveshaft just fell off!" Embarrassing, that....since most are RWD....and most sub arrays are in the boot..trunk....'back there'....;) *L*
The 'practical engineer' in me thinks the T-LATs' were victims of a complex design (referring back to the ESS Transar...neat to stare at, an 'interesting listen', but the mass & weight of the parts linking the bits?🙄...), but 'user enthusiasm' may have made a big impression with the warranty dept. and the reviews.... You 'may' be more conservative in the use of your LAT....
I suspect your interest in servo-drives for larger arrays may stem from that...educate my impression if astray....*G*
I wonder if there is any 'induced delay' in a servo setup....when we discuss fractional time 'loops' in a system that 'self corrects' IRT even if driven by a digital app, on-board or not. AG is a hotbed for those who hear the footsteps of mosquitos on the violins' bridge in a quiet passage.
I'm joking and teasing....'gimme' a break, Jake'. ;)
Smear in a bass line, esp. with a bass viola would seem a concern; not my current 'fare', but Understood. EDM/Synthophila is my 'fun distract', but I listen to nearly anything sans MOR C/W....whatever That is, around the US....'default FM', to be escaped from....*L*
*tag* You're 'It', Jerry....
"...that boy ain't nothin' but Trouble...." |
Ha! Yesterday I surprised the younger workmate who's been assigned to work with me, alas I haven't worked out why the boss is punishing him, but I bet the truth will come out some day. I was playing music off my phone through the truck's stereo, notice I didn't say hifi system, and I asked him what he liked to listen to? EDM I cranked up some Armin Van Buuren he was a little surprised, then I played some mash ups and Deadmau5 mashup was a winner. I asked him if he was surprised, and he was. We talked about EDM events we'd been to with Dutch artists and such. Now I will say that I have EDM on my home server, but generally for listening I like acoustic instruments, but I play some Doof Doof every now and then. My car system was all about SQ, full time alignment, fully active channel separation into amplifier channel into each driver. European brand components, all sitting in boxes from the move to the US. So I've come up in the World, from Downunder to Down South (up north, stateside). I don't own a vehicle, I have personal use of a 2020 GMC Sierra truck from work, it's got some bells and whistles, and no payments for me. Paying down the mortgage at the moment, trying to be a responsible adult, well it's a good cover. I'm an automation tech, and yeah I hear you on latency during the process loop, but with 4ms cycles, I think modern logic controllers will have little issue with low frequency correction like sub woofers. You'd have every right to tell it off if it didn't perform with honor, "just one job, you're given just one job!"
sans MOR C/W? sans = without or not containing, right? The rest is lost in translation to me, I'm afraid.
'gimme' a break, Jake'. ;)
In Australia that translates to, I'm just joshing mate. Oh, I'm more worried about the mossies and nats eating me after all this bloody rain, and during quiet parts in music I can hear them buzzing - and I don't claim dog like hearing prowess either. Well I hope it's the mossies buzzing, maybe I do have tinnitus? |
*LOL* OK, 'stateside' now....I've inferred your current residence in TX, is correct or no? If so...Gawd, weather (or not), heat/humidity, and the way 'mericans act will not have mercy upon you. ...but you've likely figured that out by now....;) Welcome to the US....and I do mean Us....*L* As a 'native' (of SoCA, not of the 'originals'), I'm still an item of interest to the locals here in NC. But usually when I 'interact' in some fashion socially predictable... I'm not a Dr., but try to cause no harm....or much.....;) Great, no vehicle pymts., just drive and smile the miles....👍 deadmau5, huh? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joWKEX03wd0&list=RDShB_HI6F1f4&index=8...happy that 'AV' like that wasn't around in the late '60s'~'70s'.... ;) Now, paranoia infused stuff like nonoises' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04qPdGNA_KM'One needs....balance...in what one exposes oneself to....' Hard to do of late, but lets' ignore that sub-routine for now....maybe ever... Latency isn't likely an issue for the bulk of us, but you're down with how 'some' react to that line of logic...."I can hear a pin drop impact!" 'K, kewl......me 2, if from an air gun, butt 1st..... (Of the pin....point 1st, negative response....) Ow. ;) MOR/CW= Middle Of Road/Country Western...MOR/Pop, and all the rest, you've no doubt been exposed by now..... Yes, jus' joshin'...I do that a lot. Audio for me is a 'hobby', a pleasant distract from the usual Life in the Big Sh*tty, although AVL isn't big...just of a size spouse 'n self can live with & within.... *S* I prefer a high degree of 'flexibility' over sheer 'perfection' at this time, so component choices reflect that here. No real stand-out items, but that which scratches my particular itch(es)....in a far from ideal space to do so. ...but, that's another story. And, at my age, I've no short stories anymore. Best dealt with over some form of 'adult enhancement' of 'legal means'....and.... No, I won't 'go there'....the moderators would have a field day....*L* Happi Weak-end, J |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEutbPu2YwI @ 44:30... CA is consuming itself in a fashion unknown by yours truly., but perhaps feared yourself previously....FBS was good to give the 'Home Folks' a moment of appreciation, which those who fight the impossible for us more than deserve....*hand on heart, but not for any one flag* |
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Yep a dinky di Aussie living in Texas, used to hot and muggy actually. Most Texans are pretty decent, I like their straight up honesty (generally) and take it or leave it, I make no pretence have no fakery nonsense generally. It works for me, and my wife she's straight forward, which works for me.
Enhancements? recreational pharmaceuticals?
Patent No. 6,630,507
I'm madder than a cut snake, crazier than a frog in a sock, so I don't partake. Now if I were in a situation where I was in pain, or seizures, or well there's plenty this 'lil herb can help. Maybe I read you wrong?
What is he building in there, hahaha? I may have read him wrong, I just think it's sport for him to stir a bit - we're all friends in here, far as I see it.
I see it's a MTV clip, I purchased every issue of the best of MTV live, great live acts. Highly recommend if you like live sounding 80's it's magic.
Don't get me wrong, fast bass is my goal too. I just don't doubt it's a capable technology, and I'm seriously looking at it down the road, you know, after some other projects get finished. Like my long over due finishing of the first two QRD17 diffusers I made with solid cherry wood. That has been a project I tell you, splitting the wood on a band saw, joining it, biscuit joining at times, then assembly.
Yeah Texans, they love their country music, which is kinda blended with pop compared to Aussie country. Not really my scene, but if it's clever humor, I can listen no worries.
I am fortunate, and my wife she likes music and dancing, so I get a lot of support and WAF. She keeps coming home with random LP's, she wants me to invest in a vinyl spinner, it's going to get costly I 'spose.
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😏...we probably ought to move all this to PMland, but if some are not amused, they can walk on by....
'cept @danager ...Thanks for the firstwatt link, which opens on 'the Heil Years'...have a pair of the large AMT's, just got 'gifted' to the 2241AM xover for their original subs....*S*👍
Hard to find LF that can pace with an AMT, but anyone with 2way 'stats likely have the same issue.....but therein lies the challenge and the goal, right? 🙄
So, rix....which part of TX? No, not a 'trick the rix' query....just a personal alignment of locale(s)....but, having 1.5 decades in HOU, one develops certain degrees of appreciation tainted by a level of 'WTF Now?!' of Texarcana....
Fav:
Can screw up the working parts of a brick.
(Not that anywhere else is immune, no....) |
Ah, Dallas....Wanderland.....*S* Some queries answer themselves... ;) |
I may find self in your locale in the next year....
Do Not Be Afraid. Have had all my shots, house-trained, not physically endowed to be a severe threat....would issue advance warning....would wear the foil hat, all that....
Did work in Frisco in the NE quadrant.....an item done needs...a revision of it's vision, so to speak if words were said but not read....*g* |
Danager is cool, met him at millercarbon's place.
West Texas, Odessa. I work mostly out of Midland actually. Working out in the oil fields, amazing what I've seen in Texas and abroad. Horny toads, Bobcat, loads of Coyotes, White tails, Prarie dogs,
Javelina
?(Mexican black pigs?), rattlers, loads of rabbits and jack rabbits, I think I even saw a Lama or something like it one dusty day. Squirrels, roadrunners, Tarantulas walking across the roads by the hundreds, wild donkey, picked up a good sized turtle walking down a lease road (I eventually put it back) and when I went to Wyoming I saw my first Bison, racoons, wild brown bears even.
I really love wildlife and have been around animals most of my life, used to catch snakes in Australia, that takes a bit of guts I tell you, perhaps foolishness. Not fond of blue bottles or jellyfish - you get stung and I bet the love of them wears thin real fast.
The real story of rix the trick. Nestle has a chocolate drink mixer called Quick. There was a TV advert with a jingle that went Quick's the trick, someone I can't recall who, changed it to Rick's the Trick after the jingle.
I liked it better than speedy, oh I was kinda slowing down the card game we were playing when I was a young fella, and the call went across the table, C'mon Speedy! Sarcasm is currency in Aus.
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O, dessa....near Midland, home of the Chaparrals...*S* Followed CanAm racing in my earlier years, the Jim Hall racing cars became the objects of concern to that others feared, perhaps the touchstone of that demi-spoiler on ones' car... If GM was really serious about having a $erious $upercar to sell (not that the mid-engine Corvette will be a slouch, no), they would roll out a Chaparral....*sigh* In the 'Ford vs. Ferrari' era, the only lack was the backing of $erious Backing from GM. If another racing 'auto worship' movie is to be made, there is a good history to be revisited....imho... To the point of a good friend, temporary employer, and car enthusiast in his way always swore he'd like to build 'one of his own...not to race, but merely to have.' If he'd lived longer than he did, I'd wager John would have dumped his 230SL in a heartbeat for a DIY 2A~2C.... Go stare at the past, tap a fender for me...;) *S* Pity one can't buy one, unlike a Ford GT....IF you can get on the list to get one of the latter.... But that's just car lust, and if given my druthers and the means, I'd be in a Lotus nearly anything...*L* 'asvjerry' is fairly obvious, with just a tweak on AVL to as(he)v(ille)...etc. The 'gull' comes from LateNightTales, Fatboy Slim.... I was struck by the image of a gull in the dark...atypical, with a near-quizzical turn of the beak in the lighting.... ...and far more of potential interest than one of me in the dark, either being not very awake or pissed at being so... *L* I'd suppose being a fish far from the sea at MC's Audio BBQ.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4mbxaa3XL8...but a random run-in at some audio extravaganza a more likely event, either of which is unlikely. Perhaps in a later life...;) |
@
danager
- that Decware W032 looks interesting.
I heard some loaded horn speakers recently and they were very good.
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Decware's Steve Deckert has some interesting concepts about sound reproduction and his articles and musings are very informative.
This past year has completely altered my perception about what I thought I knew about HIFI from power cords to amplifier power from subwoofers to horn speakers.
What I thought to know to be true has been demonstrated to be absolutely false and because I was able to meet, hear and discuss stereo with knowledgeable people, I've benefited by a much better sounding stereo.
For me that bottom octave has been quite illusive and look forward to hearing about how you solved it.
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For me that bottom octave has been quite illusive and look forward to hearing about how you solved it. Me, how I solved it, as in the past tense? Yeah, I'm waiting to see how I solve it too. :-) Sorry I hadn't cleaned my terminals before you heard what I have, it has changed for the better. |
*L* Frankly, I'd ripole 1st vs. the Decware....
Way far easier to fab.... ;)
"Piano finish Black" can hide all sorts of 'oops'....*G*
...not that I've any insolent insider info, y'know....;) |
...an irrational thought just seized.....?
A 'sub-swarm' of riploles armed with 8" (or smaller) woofers....
No more 'one box to bounce them...', but cables like a web to trip the unwary or unstable...*L* ) |
@oldhvymec - are you saying that the measurements the amp module are fed coming back from the subs are inaccurate?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I'm saying you need to be aware of how the system works AND work with it. Depending on the size of the room it can take a few 12" drivers to really impact a room. I say impact because of the way they load the room and also how the room is vented.. IB rooms vs OB with OB subs. Sometimes it's better to mix more than one type of bass unit. Depending on the music or the effect you want.. HT for an example.
I use both, Band pass bass columns and servo controlled subs. 60hz <
The Band pass cabinets are direct coupled to the amp. No XO in the way.. Great cone control. That is a great option for ME..
Ripole are kinda' strange the way they load a room too.
I saw 3 on either side of the seated position in a warehouse environment.. WOW.. all 12" I think. All Mac gear too.
A GREAT accelerometer and amp system is the best.. BUT the cost.
With today's DSP, and or Active crossovers with all the goodies for bass management and BIG class D amps. I say have fun... I sure am..:-)
Regards |
